Singapore Math questions, help please!

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momofone
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by momofone » Tue May 12, 2009 8:31 pm

I'm giving Singapore a go! I'll try to shorten my story :wink:
We've done probably three fourths of Saxon Math 2 this year and we're exhausted, to say the least! My son does not have all his facts down. Addition is pretty good, but subtraction is not! He gets really stressed with me trying to time him (I've tried all the tricks, by the way). Everything else has been just fine, we just stress out over facts! Why?? I don't know.

Anyway, 1B is our placement because of the facts, even though he just turned 8 years. We have the 1A and B set and we did do two pages today without tears. However, it starts out realitively easy. My question is this--- Do we just keep on with a supplement for learning/practicing the facts or is this drill in the Singapore books???
I have looked the book over and I love the methods, but it's so different because there's no drill/set up for the fact memorization. I am totally new to this, so forgive me if I'm asking ignorant questions. :oops:
I guess I need someone to "hold my hand" and guide me with this! Also, pray for us as this fact memorization has just about sent us back to public school! :shock: However, we know that we really don't want that! :oops:

Sorry, this is so long! I just know you all are great and I'm glad to have you to lean on! :wink:
Thanks in advance.
Tina
Jacob-2nd grade, just turned 8

sharonb
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Location: FL

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by sharonb » Tue May 12, 2009 8:37 pm

We are just getting started with Singapore too, and are continuing with Rod & Staff for the drill. BUT, my children are happy with R&S (and Singapore too) so that's one reason we are going to do both. In your situation, however, I'd recommend something like the book "Games for Math" by Peggy Kaye. I just bought it recently and it has tons of great ideas for ways to help them learn their math facts while having fun. I know a lot of people like the Right Start games too.

momofone
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by momofone » Tue May 12, 2009 8:44 pm

Thanks Sharon! think I will check into that book and the right start games. Jacob has learned many of the facts, but gets too frustrated. I think I may have pushed him too much from the beginning, as we actually tried Abeka for awhile and that was a nightmare!
So, it works out o.k. to use another program with Singapore????
Just wondering if it adds too much??
Thanks!
Tina

srp1997
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Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 11:09 am

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by srp1997 » Tue May 12, 2009 9:19 pm

Hello,

I am sorry your son is struggling in math. I've been there, I am there. I have two sons, 10 and 7, and we haven't tried Singapore, yet. I am the writer of the "math woes" post. I won't retell my story, but I will say that dc all seem to click with the facts a bit differently. With my first it really bothered me that he wasn't immediately remembering all this great stuff I had been teaching him. With my second I have learned this huge thing called grace. I have resorted to trying many things.
1)What my boys have loved the most is games. We use a deck of cards in about 100 different ways. We add them, subtract them, multiply them. In one game, we each draw two cards, subtract, and the person with the lowest difference wins. They get to keep all the cards from that hand. Person with most cards at the end is the winner.

2)When my children were still trying to cement subtraction, they needed to do flash cards. I made them say the whole problem with fact families grouped together so that they could see the correlation. 4+5=_ with 5+4=_ with 9-5=_ with 9-4=_ This has really helped my kids. I don't keep the cards that way forever but it helped. And I wised up and set a timer for 1 or 2 minutes and whatever we didn't get to was on the top for the next day.

3) Oh, and you did Saxon. We did Saxon for a while. Saxon teaches the +1,+2, doubles facts, doubles +1, 9+, and oddball and then reverses for subtraction. I took a piece of paper and made a board that had a card sized grid with each rectangle marked with the addition rules (as listed above) or the subtraction rules. At first, my son and I would sit on each side of the board and go through our flash cards laying the cards on the rule. I wanted him to see the connection which he did. I think sometimes he was staring at the card waiting for a magic number to appear without actually knowing what kind of method he should use to solve the problem. Then, I made an additional board , so we each had one. We would use playing cards and take turns drawing two cards and laying them on the board over top of the correct rule. The winner was the first with each of the categories covered.

Keep at it. I'm sorry I can't help you more.
Sarah

WigglesMom

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by WigglesMom » Tue May 12, 2009 9:22 pm

A lot of programs stress drilling the math facts. I can tell you from experience not all children get math by memorization and timing them can set some children up to failure. I like Singapore b/c it explains the why's of math not just this is it memorize it.
For example, we are afterschooling with LHFHG right now b/c ds is finishing kindergarten year up in ps. He came home last week with a 2 page worksheet on addition facts. We tried the drill and repitition they shove down our throats. He couldn't get it on the worksheet. He didn't want to do the work. It was taking forever. I felt like a failure b/c I couldn't get him to see the addition facts light at the end of the tunnel so to speak.
Today, we were afterschooling with Singapore doing some pages that have pictures with one to one objects and then a sentence under like 2 is __ less than 5. He went through the 2 pages like this and then the 2 pages with the 5 is __greater than 2. He was working and saying the math sentences and all of a sudden it was like a light bulb clicked. He was talking to himself and I was watching him work and complete his work so quickly when he was like so 2+3=5 and 5-3=2 all on his own. He could grasp the concept in true form. He knew why these math facts were so.
Now when he sees them in math problems and future work he will really know what they mean. I wouldn't stress the memorization or the timing. With time and doing math, these facts will become second nature to them. You could try an addition table for him to find the answers or a math fact finder slider. He will be looking up the answer but he will learn the answer over time also.
I use this math fact finder.http://www.teachersparadise.com/c/scoob ... 23125.html
I use them with my girls who went to public school with the drill and repitiion and the one minute timing tests. Neither of my children learned to love math this way. In fact, they came to hate math this way. Using the math fact finder gives them confidence as well as teaches them the math facts over time in a natural confidence building way.
I hope this helps.
Val

momofone
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by momofone » Tue May 12, 2009 9:46 pm

Oh you all are helping me think through this!
Sarah, those games sound really fun!
Val, I couldn't agree more!! Math facts and timed tests are sucking the life right out of my son!
He had big "crocodile" tears the other day when we were doing a timed fact practice. I had stopped them, but wanted to see how he'd do. Well, it was awful!
However, he CAN do whatever time test I have given him. It's just the stress factor, I guess. :roll:

I think I'll just have him just practice, practice (not timed), play games w/the facts and continue on doing all the other math topics, which give him no trouble.
So, practice, pray, practice, pray..... :wink:
I soooo appreciate all of you helping me out with your ideas!
Tina

Leslie in TN
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Location: Tennessee

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by Leslie in TN » Wed May 13, 2009 4:33 am

One website we use for drilling our facts is http://www.arcademicskillbuilders.com/ . It is really fun, the kids can drill individually or with other children online, and it's FREE! 8) We do addition on Mon, subtraction on Tues, multiplication on Wed, and division on Thurs. They have gotten their facts down cold using this site, and they never seem to get tired of it. :D
Leslie in TN
Mama to Eva & Laura (16) and Samuel (14)


Currently using: World Geography with VideoText Algebra
Veterans of Rev2Rev, CTC, PHFHG and BLHFHG

dale1088
Posts: 165
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Location: Cedar Park, TX

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by dale1088 » Wed May 13, 2009 7:39 am

Hi Tina,

PLEASE don't stress out so much over math facts and PLEASE don't think that's a reason to send him back to ps!!!! My dd is ending 3rd grade and still doesn't have all the add and subt facts down, but it's getting better every day. I want to know who ever said that a kid has to know every single addition and subtraction fact down cold before they move on? I pulled my dd from ps to begin our homeschool journey just this past Dec, and I pulled a math hater. She had already pegged herself as just no good in math and hated, Hated, HATED those crummy drills and timed tests. She felt stuck and hopeless that she didn't "get it" and couldn't move forward.

When we started Singapore I was also stressing about facts, but got started with it anyways. Singapore seems to think the kids will pick all that up by just doing the math. I can't tell you how thrilled my dd was to move away from all those drills and get into measurement, and then she LOVED the introduction to mult and division. I just used the review at the end of 2A as a "test" and she scored an 89! And it reviewed place value, measurement, add and subt w/regrouping, mult and division. Somehow, the relaxed short lessons and spiral approach of Singapore works for my kid. Praise God!

This summer I plan to make it all the way through 2B so that I can start 3A when we start Preparing in the Fall. I got those triangle shaped flash cards to work on facts, because my dd needs to see the whole number family in order to memorize it. If she keeps seeing 6+4=10, then when the problem comes up _+4=10, she knows what's missing. She's a very visual learner that way, so it's what's working.

I also really like Michelle's Math that gave me lots of tips and tricks. Check it out! http://www.redshift.com/~bonajo/mmathmenu.htm

Just wanted to encourage you! Keep on working on it, but maybe don't push so hard that you drill any potential love of math right out of him. Relax a little and let him find the fun in math. It works!
~Amy
2009-2010:
Lucy, 9, PHFHG and DITHOR
Elliot, 5, LHTH

erdrmom
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Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by erdrmom » Wed May 13, 2009 8:28 am

Tina,

You are further along in your homeschooling journey than I am. My dd is almost 6 and my ds is 3.5, so I haven't gotten to the facts drills yet (and I likely won't do that). But I feel I have to chime in here. I keep coming back to your post and rereading it. Here's why:

I am your child (so to speak). I grew up in the ps system back in the 70s-80s. We were drilled on our "facts" and I never learned them! Never! Even to this day, I don't think I could pass a timed math facts test. I was always at or behind grade level because I couldn't pass/finish the timed drills. If I had all the time in the world, I could do the math, but I couldn't do it quickly. I hated math. I didn't want to do it at all! When I was in the 6th grade, I had a teacher that quit focusing on the "book" and did math the "real world" way. In fact, I don't think we opened the book all year. We had races at the board. He would call out a problem and we would race in groups and at our desks to finish the problem first. He would hand out golf tees to the winners. I didn't win a lot of tees, 3 in fact, and I still have them. That year was a turning point for me. I learned that I knew the why and how of math, but I didn't have speed. Not so much a big deal, but it was my first "A" in math. When I went to middle school, I tested into the advanced group, and started pre-algebra in 7th grade. I progressed along that track and completed calculus my senior year. I then went to college and pursued engineering. I transferred to another state, so I had to retake some of the math courses because there wasn't a direct equivalent, so I ended up with enough math hours to have a minor in math. It wasn't until I was working as an engineer that I learned some of my multiplication facts. I could do them, but they weren't memorized. I am living proof that you can do math without memorized facts. I do admit that things would have been "quicker" if I had memorized my facts, but I could still "do" the math.

Math is such a sensitive topic. Everyone has their opinion about which curriculum is best. In all honesty, I haven't done anything personally but Singapore, but I have helped my neice with Horizons. I love Singapore because it teaches the concepts. I like the way it introduces math. I think it provides a great base for higher math.

We, as moms, want our kids to develop a love of learning. I think we need to ask ourselves why we think we need to do certian things. Is it because it's what we did? Is it because that's what everyone else is doing? We need to be about what is best for our family. We need to seek guidance from our Maker.

I don't think timed drills are a necessary life skill. (Have you ever been timed when you balanced your checkbook? :wink: ) Math is a necessary life skill and I think it's important not to turn our children against math. It is one of the things they will do forever. Relax it will all work itself out. Give it some time.

This is just my experience and opinion. I don't mean to offend or come across as harsh. I just want you to know that one can become "good" at math without having the "facts" memorized.

I will be praying for you and your son.
Blessings,

Cindi
Loved teaching and learning through LHTH, LHFHG, BLHFHG, BHFHG, PHFHG, & DITHOR
Planning for the upcoming year with DD10 in CTC half-pace and DS7 in BHFHG half-pace

momofone
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by momofone » Wed May 13, 2009 9:00 am

OOOOH! Cindy, Leslie and Amy, you all are great!!! :wink:
I'm gonna check out the websites and I have NOT made him do a timed test since posting about this.

Cindy, I appreciate you sharing that story with me! I can definately relate. I have been a math hater all my life! :oops: I had trouble memorizing the facts and doing math in school :oops: :oops: I even became a teacher without having algebra down cold! :oops: So, I know this is why I tend to push a little more in that area. Although, Jacob is doing very well compared to my progress at his age! :oops: I know that homeschooling has played a big part in his success so far!

Jacob actually did go a semester of kindergarten at first. Since the teacher had to help so many others in class, my son did not receive much help at all! So, I know we're doing the best thing.
This morning we have worked in Singapore and he really likes the cute pics! We also sang our facts, but didn't stress over them. It has gone much better!!!

You all have really blessed me with your posts!!! :wink:
<<<<Hugs>>>>>
Thanks soooo much!
Tina

Mom2Monkeys
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Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by Mom2Monkeys » Wed May 13, 2009 9:48 am

I had issues about getting my dd to get her add/subt facts down too. Carrie told me not to worry about it just yet. She's 2nd grade this year and working through Singapore 2B right now. We used other "Drill" programs before Singapore and she could never get her facts. (We used LifePac and Horizons). Now that we are doing things the Singapore way, exactly as written in the HOD guides, she is getting her mult/div. facts down easily with NO drill. We've covered 2s,3s,4s,5s, and 10s and they are coming quite natuarally to her. Something about Singapore...it just works. I am using QuarterMile Math as a supp for her add/subt facts but I think had we done them with Singapore, I wouldn't have to supplement.

I am going to try out that free site a pp mentioned to have her practice her add/subt facts though! Thanks!
~~Tamara~~
Enjoying HOD since 2008

DD15 long-time HODie finding her own new path
DS12 PHFHG {dysgraphia, APD, SID}
DS9 PHFHG
DS6 LHFHG
DD new nursling

momofone
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 7:23 pm

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by momofone » Thu May 14, 2009 6:24 am

We did try out the website that Leslie mentioned. It is great! :D
It was funny though because Jacob would get all flustered while trying to win, using the facts, :lol:
I guess I'd rather it be that than a time sheet!
He is a wiggly little boy, but is a bit of a perfectionist.
Mom2Monkeys, thanks for sharing. Right now, we are doing Singapore exactly as written. It looks really easy, but the "thinking" part is not. I really like the way they present concepts!

You all are helping me sooo much! Thanks!
:D Tina

Leslie in TN
Posts: 96
Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 6:44 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by Leslie in TN » Thu May 14, 2009 6:34 am

momofone wrote: It was funny though because Jacob would get all flustered while trying to win, using the facts, :lol:
That sounds very much like my son! I made sure he played the individual games for a while to build up his speed and confidence.. then he felt better about his "showing" against others. It's a great site, though..

You can also use some of the language arts games if you're covering those topics in R&S English :)
Leslie in TN
Mama to Eva & Laura (16) and Samuel (14)


Currently using: World Geography with VideoText Algebra
Veterans of Rev2Rev, CTC, PHFHG and BLHFHG

Mumkins
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Re: Singapore Math questions, help please!

Post by Mumkins » Thu May 14, 2009 11:34 am

We just left saxon. Singapore is kind of freaking me out. I'm use to the +1, +2 and adding 9's by subtracting 10 and adding 1. I'm still going to try to keep going. But I miss my scripted lessons. We bought flashmaster, electronic flashcard game. Wish I had have seen the links first. Flashmaster is expensive!
7 awesome kids!

3 graduated
4 at home this fall
DD6 Beyond
DS10 Preparing
DS13 MTMM
DS16 online high school

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