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Maybe if I state my issue with HOD that I can get more help. I've been leary to this point to do this, but it may be more helpful to me in the long run to make my decision! So I'll break down and spill my issues:

We used Beyond and my dd really disliked the History. (Don't kill me )Pioneers & Patriots was and is a hit, but the Stories of the Pilgrims was daunting for us. I lost her. Nothing helped. DD was gone, tuned out. Because it was in story form I was at a loss on trying to continue. I even did a preread and narrated it back. She's more hands on (but can't color and listen and the same time). And I think it may not have been the book necessarily as the long drawn out process between England, Holland and Jamestown (13 weeks). It just held no interest for her. It was too much detail for her. I think she's into more of a quick overview, events. Now I could do that; narrate the main ideas, but it was difficult for me because it was in story form and some daily readings to me really meant not a lot to American history itself, but the lives of kids during that time. So there were days I thought I should skip because of it and it got all messed up and I just couldn't do it. But I am still led back to HOD because it gave us such great discussions like no other has. Without the history the rest was lost. I've been piece and flitting from one thing to the next curriculum wise and I'm just burned out!

I'm going to pick up Beyond again. The rotation is the same as MFW Adventures as they both use the P&P book and we're about on the same page (around pg 80) and we'll continue from that point to see if this picks up a bit for us. So about "Bigger": Just curious if the History process moves a bit faster? It's not that it's bad, it's just that Stories of the Pilgrims didn't hold interest for her and I had a hard time finding something that may have worked for us in the interim. Because I didn't want to chuck the program.

Two other questions:
Does Bigger's science go in subject increments meaning we do seashore for a few days, then move on or does it jump like Beyond? Simply curious because One Small Square books are used instead of an overview book like in Beyond. And:
Preparing is world history and I can't get a gist of what it really covers even w/the Table of Contents. Countries? Events? Which one? Combo?

I have a lot of respect for Carrie. I read a book on children's learning and Carrie has it all in her curriclum. I was reading it and I thought, "Wow" Carrie hit all these points!" But still I can't decide between MFW & HOD. I have equal issues with MFW, but it's biblical issues (verses are too long, and it's somewhat dry), craft supplies, repeating a program, and other oddities, etc. Either way I come back to both of these two curriculums. Thanks for your help! I really need some peace in my mind.
Ann

We've just started Bigger and it is quite different than Beyond. In Beyond, I let my dd act of what was being read as I read it or I let her read it herself. She enjoyed pretending to be one of the Brewster children and others from the stories. It also encouraged retention and was hands-on without something that was distracting like coloring-- it was something that made her HAVE to listen and UNDERSTAND in order to do it. Every time she sees a tulip now, I get the whole story about tulips from our lessons in Beyond! I think that's because she played the part!

I'd look at the MFW and HOD comparison posts on the board and I think you'll find HOD to be what you are looking for. Your dd just might not be ready for the level of readings and maybe you need to take it at a slower pace-- maybe you read a few sentences, then have her read some...then narrate and repeat til the reading is done?? Is she on the younger end of the age range? Could it be an attitude issue? (it was usually with my dd when we had "disinterest"). Also, remember that sometimes kids need time to grow into the readings...that takes time and consistency!

Mom2Monkeys wrote:We've just started Bigger and it is quite different than Beyond. In Beyond, I let my dd act of what was being read as I read it or I let her read it herself. She enjoyed pretending to be one of the Brewster children and others from the stories. It also encouraged retention and was hands-on without something that was distracting like coloring-- it was something that made her HAVE to listen and UNDERSTAND in order to do it. Every time she sees a tulip now, I get the whole story about tulips from our lessons in Beyond! I think that's because she played the part!

I'd look at the MFW and HOD comparison posts on the board and I think you'll find HOD to be what you are looking for. Your dd just might not be ready for the level of readings and maybe you need to take it at a slower pace-- maybe you read a few sentences, then have her read some...then narrate and repeat til the reading is done?? Is she on the younger end of the age range? Could it be an attitude issue? (it was usually with my dd when we had "disinterest"). Also, remember that sometimes kids need time to grow into the readings...that takes time and consistency!

DD is on the upper end of the age range. She's 8 now, will be 9 in mid-June. Bigger will be fine come August, she wasn't lost due to level content, just interest content. It just wouldn't hold it. I think it just went on too long for her in Beyond. Like I mentioned, she loves the P&P book, but just not the other. Acting out is a good idea, but she tends to be shy that way. Maybe she should have been in Bigger, but the writing skills and reading skills were not there at the time. She's an only so she'd rather "play" and not academic, however, she can hold on to a great conversation.

In what way is Bigger different than Beyond?

Ann,

Carrie includes links on this page http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-history.php where you can view A First Book of American History and Stories of Great Americans online. Maybe that would help so you could read through and get a feel for them.

Ann, I'll be honest, there are times when I am reading from "Stories of Great Americans" and I'm thinking - why's this guy so important? We just moved on from Benjamin Franklin to John Stark. I would have much rather stayed on Franklin longer (and we may go back to him later, dunno). But what I try to tell my dd is that the stories are not that this particular person was so pivotal in history, but that the events in history are because of people. Ordinary people are most often the ones that accomplish extraordinary things. That God was working through people to make things move forward the way they have. And of course, Carrie is showing the Godly character traits (or lack of) as we read about these people.

But to answer your question, you do move chronologically through time but since you jump from story to story with people, my dd has not gotten bored with it. It's not our favorite book to read ("Stories of Great Americans" I mean), but it's been engaging enough and I do see the point of it. I think your dd will really like Bigger.

momto3girls wrote:Ann,

Carrie includes links on this page http://www.heartofdakota.com/BHFHG-history.php where you can view A First Book of American History and Stories of Great Americans online. Maybe that would help so you could read through and get a feel for them.

Thanks for the link. Honestly I like the way this reads. It seems like their talking to us, more than a he said she said sort of thing and both books are the same (same author). These look great!

annaz wrote:...

Two other questions:
Does Bigger's science go in subject increments meaning we do seashore for a few days, then move on or does it jump like Beyond? Simply curious because One Small Square books are used instead of an overview book like in Beyond. And:
Preparing is world history and I can't get a gist of what it really covers even w/the Table of Contents. Countries? Events? Which one? Combo?

I have a lot of respect for Carrie. I read a book on children's learning and Carrie has it all in her curriclum. I was reading it and I thought, "Wow" Carrie hit all these points!" But still I can't decide between MFW & HOD. I have equal issues with MFW, but it's biblical issues (verses are too long, and it's somewhat dry), craft supplies, repeating a program, and other oddities, etc. Either way I come back to both of these two curriculums. Thanks for your help! I really need some peace in my mind.
Ann

Ann,

I had a post back when we were doing Bigger Hearts last year about how my ds actually took the "little red books" (as he called them ) and hid under a blanket with a flashlight to sneak a time to keep reading ahead. He just "couldn't wait until the next school day"! We'd talked about how he could read at any pace the books that we were not using for HOD, but NOT the HOD books because we were to enjoy doing those together. This is one of those times that a character issue arises that I felt a mixture of being thrilled and being let down with - thrilled that he LOVED his Bigger Hearts history enough to do that, but let down that he did it in a sneaky way.

Anyway, my point here is that dd will more than likely greatly enjoy the read-alouds in Bigger Hearts. I even found them to be engaging to read myself. Beyond's history itself sounds like it was pretty much a hit with your dd - just not the book Stories of the Pilgrims. That's o.k. - we all have books we click with more than others. Perhaps that book was on the young side for her, or maybe it was a character issue, or maybe for whatever reason she didn't click with it. I figure as long as we are picking Godly books (which HOD makes pretty easy for me ), our dc can just enjoy them as much as they can. With HOD, we've gotten the best of both - Godly books that are enjoyable too.

As far as Bigger's science, you complete a book and then move on to the next one. You don't jump around between books. We loved the tie-ins between science and history in Bigger. I also liked that the science books felt "different" from one another. This approach kept us feeling like there was always something new and exciting in science to be doing.

For PHFHG's history, can I just say WE LOVE IT! We've got 6 weeks left of PHFHG, and we will honestly miss learning about history together in this way. (We do have CTC to look forward to though. ). I think PHFHG does it all. It studies events in chronological order (and we have a neat ever-growing timeline to prove it), but people are learned about in a biographical way, and countries are learned about as they come into the limelight of history. The Storytime box also gives a feel for what it would have been like to live in each of the time periods. The research box delves into the artifacts, art, etc. of the time period, and their history project directly links to that research. Our ds loves history, and is retaining so much more about history than I ever did. I am thoroughly enjoying reading about history in this manner as well.

You are so right to pick up on the depth of discussions being such a wonderful find in HOD. Wait until you get to the older guides - it just keeps going deeper. You are also wise to long for the Bible focus of HOD. I know you didn't specifically ask this, but I just have to say that the Biblical focus of HOD is outstanding. For example, in PHFHG, pairing Grandpa's Box with CHOW makes history come alive in both a Biblical and a world history way. The Bible is not just tacked on. It is woven through everything we are doing, and it has become a completely natural thing for our dc and us to talk about the Bible and our faith in virtually every aspect of life - whether that's during homeschooling or not. I cannot stress this enough. HOD gets to the heart of dc by keeping God front and center. God is doing great things in the hearts of dc everywhere through HOD! I will pray for you as you consider your coming year, Ann! Personally, I don't see how the year could go wrong if you choose HOD.

In Christ,
Julie

Thanks Julie, that was an insightful post. I believe I'm being led to HOD. We only had the one problem and I just didn't know how to deal with it. But after all the work I went through this year, I believe we are coming back; finishing Beyond and starting on Bigger. We had no problems with any read alouds. We really liked all them. So if we only had a problem with one book, I'd say that's a pretty darn good program!

Thanks again.
Ann

annaz wrote:Thanks Julie, that was an insightful post. I believe I'm being led to HOD. We only had the one problem and I just didn't know how to deal with it. But after all the work I went through this year, I believe we are coming back; finishing Beyond and starting on Bigger. We had no problems with any read alouds. We really liked all them. So if we only had a problem with one book, I'd say that's a pretty darn good program!

Thanks again.
Ann

I'm so glad to hear that, Ann! I do think God leads us in all our decisions, if we only just take the time to be still and listen (something you are probably good at, but I continue to have to work on as I am not always a patient person. ). I agree that the problem with the one book doesn't make the whole program a bust. You just have such a heart for your dd to enjoy school - which is a good thing! We all have a deep desire for our dc to LOVE everything about school, and sometimes - even with all of our very best intentions, or with even the very best of programs - they just don't love it all.

I remember my oldest ds disliked anything to do with art type projects right from the start. I even remember him coloring in his coloring books with BLACK crayons over the whole thing. I was so upset because he didn't get into his art projects like I wanted him to. Then, in the summer, we tried some other art books - a lot of different ones. Nope. Still not a favorite for him. I will say that last year- when we started notebooking was the first time he really began to enjoy things that required art more. He liked the notebooking and how it all tied in together - it made sense to my very logical child. This year, in PHFHG, he has come to especially enjoy the Draw and Write book. He still does not love art-type things as much as I would like him to. He still is not as good at them as his cousins. But it's just not his thing. I've stopped feeling bad about it and realized that's just him. It's not my fault. It's not the program's fault. It's just how God made him. And, it is not a free ticket to do less than what is expected of him on any given assignment.

I was just thinking the other day how if I had let him skip more of the artistic type projects because they weren't his favorites, how he would never had learned to enjoy it the way he's begun to now. Maybe you'll find something similar with your dd. I think you are wise to continue on since it was just the 1 thing that threw a wrench in it. Sometimes that 1 thing is the 1 thing our dc need to overcome the most, and if that happens to be so in your situation, climb that mountain high! You'll be so glad you did!!!

In Christ ,
Julie

I typed up a great response and when I hit send, I lost it. Darn!

The point of my post was that I would do everything possible to help her enjoy the reading - make maps, build replicas, act out parts of the book, make paper dolls, create coloring sheets - really anything to gain her interest. However, if that still doesn't work, I would not lose the whole wonderful curriculum over one stinkin' book! I would just drop it and keep truckin' with the rest of it.

my3sons wrote: I'm so glad to hear that, Ann! I do think God leads us in all our decisions, if we only just take the time to be still and listen (something you are probably good at, but I continue to have to work on as I am not always a patient person. ). I agree that the problem with the one book doesn't make the whole program a bust. You just have such a heart for your dd to enjoy school - which is a good thing! We all have a deep desire for our dc to LOVE everything about school, and sometimes - even with all of our very best intentions, or with even the very best of programs - they just don't love it all.

I remember my oldest ds disliked anything to do with art type projects right from the start. I even remember him coloring in his coloring books with BLACK crayons over the whole thing. I was so upset because he didn't get into his art projects like I wanted him to. Then, in the summer, we tried some other art books - a lot of different ones. Nope. Still not a favorite for him. I will say that last year- when we started notebooking was the first time he really began to enjoy things that required art more. He liked the notebooking and how it all tied in together - it made sense to my very logical child. This year, in PHFHG, he has come to especially enjoy the Draw and Write book. He still does not love art-type things as much as I would like him to. He still is not as good at them as his cousins. But it's just not his thing. I've stopped feeling bad about it and realized that's just him. It's not my fault. It's not the program's fault. It's just how God made him. And, it is not a free ticket to do less than what is expected of him on any given assignment.

I was just thinking the other day how if I had let him skip more of the artistic type projects because they weren't his favorites, how he would never had learned to enjoy it the way he's begun to now. Maybe you'll find something similar with your dd. I think you are wise to continue on since it was just the 1 thing that threw a wrench in it. Sometimes that 1 thing is the 1 thing our dc need to overcome the most, and if that happens to be so in your situation, climb that mountain high! You'll be so glad you did!!!

In Christ ,
Julie

Coloring all black is a funny story, Julie. My dd loves arts and crafts but if they take too long, she's gone. So yet another reason this is a good program. Another great thought was this: Quote: "But it's just not his thing. I've stopped feeling bad about it and realized that's just him. It's not my fault. It's not the program's fault. It's just how God made him. And, it is not a free ticket to do less than what is expected of him on any given assignment." You're right.

Tree House Academy wrote:I typed up a great response and when I hit send, I lost it. Darn!

The point of my post was that I would do everything possible to help her enjoy the reading - make maps, build replicas, act out parts of the book, make paper dolls, create coloring sheets - really anything to gain her interest. However, if that still doesn't work, I would not lose the whole wonderful curriculum over one stinkin' book! I would just drop it and keep truckin' with the rest of it.

Ooh I hate when that happens. These are really good ideas. Shoulda, woulda, coulda. Thanks!