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More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:28 am
by tiffanieh
So my box arrived yesterday with the rest of what we need for next year in Beyond....soo excited!

As I mentioned earlier I decided to switch from Saxon to Singapore now instead of waiting...I ordered early bird for my kindergartener and 1A and 1B fir my 1st grader. I quickly looked at it and was pleasently surprised that my youngest actually knows already how to do all of EB 2A and the majority of 2B. I only need to do a little more with him and he can go right into 1A...I thought he was struggling too...HA!

My questions though:
1. I. notice that all the problems have pictures for the kids to visualize and count to help with figuring out the problem. So how is it they get "mental math" this way. It really doesn't require much thinking since all they have to do is count the objects.

2. I didn't notice any math drills for add/sub facts. How are they to memorize these facts using Singapore.

3. Each day really does look super quick. Do you only do each page as written by Carrie or do you double up.

4. If your child struggles with a problem do you make up your own problems since there isn't much review?

5. How do you test your children?
Thank you so much!!!!

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:42 am
by dale1088
Hi Tiffanie,

I have not used those early versions of Singapore because I pulled my dd from 3rd grade ps but here's what I am coming to learn, FWIW. I have learned that I have to trust the program and stick to it. We have had tears and frustration over math and I think it's because I am adding add/subt math fact sheets to drill, drill, drill and it's boring, boring, boring! She hates it and it's not helping her memorize her facts. Singapore does some, then moves on to something new, then has a nice review, then moves on again. So they aren't just DRILL DRILL DRILL. Now, if your kiddo needs that, then it's easy to add it in. My dd needs to change things up more often, so the longer I am doing Singapore, the more I like it. I have done all kinds of research on Miquon, and RightStart, Professor B, and many more and decided to stick with Singapore. I have done some research on her learning style (visual/kinesthetic then auditory) so for flash cards, for example, I use the ones with the answers on them so she is memorizing the association between the three numbers and can "see" whats missing. We work alot with fact families in this way. All this to say that I think that's where the "mental" part comes in. Singapore asks the math questions in different ways so that they have to "see" it in their minds to answer it. Not sure what to say about the fact drills except that for us, my dd has been doing them since 1st grade and still doesn't have her facts down. She's just now starting to cement them now that i have found a better way for her brain to absorb it. KWIM?

My dd did struggle with regrouping, so I added tons more review with that. At one point we were ahead, and now we are on pace with the manual and I have no desire to move ahead. Remember, SIngapore is not grade level per se. The things she is learning right now in 2A/2B are right on track with what her peers are learning in 3rd grade ps, so I feel good about that.

I don't test her. We work together and then she completes her work and I "grade" it. Why test? I can clearly see she's getting it. Maybe if my state required all that I would figure it out, and maybe once i have done this for a while I might want to, but right now, no.

HTH. I am rambling this morning. ETA: I meant to say that I got a good skills book from Barnes and Noble by Spectrum I think that I can pull pages from when I think there is need for more review. You can easily do this too. Especially if you want more time in Math than what Carries lessons plan for.

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 3:35 pm
by tiffanieh
Thanks Amy for your thoughtful reply!

I'm going to bump this up again to see if anyone else has any thoughts?!

Also...I was thinking of having my oldest start 1A on Monday...while a lot of it is review for him, I was going to have him sit down with the workbook and just start answering each page until he gets to the point that he has questions/concerns with the problem...that would be my starting point of where to start with him. Does that sound like a good plan?

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Fri Mar 27, 2009 11:12 pm
by Kathleen
I started my son in 2A and 2B this year. (We're about 8 pages from being done with that! :D ) Anyway, we had done Saxon 2 last year, and I can tell you that 2A was a step up from that. There are NOT pictures to visualize every problem in that level. (Though there are some...mostly with new multiplication facts.)

I have not done any Singapore prior to 2A yet, so maybe combining our knowledge, I'd reccommend just doing 1A and 1B as scheduled. I wouldn't let him blaze ahead until he hits something hard, because I'm guessing that Singapore is written the way it is so that the learning takes place over time and when the transition to more mental math without the visuals happens they don't feel like the rug is pulled out from under them. You will definitely hit harder math soon enough, and I'm guessing you won't regret it if you just go with the schedule as it is and let your boys enjoy math. (Like I said though, I've only seen the levels that come ahead of where you are. I could be wrong on my assumptions. Hopefully someone else who has "done it all" here will give you advice, too.)

:D Kathleen

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 6:00 am
by Mommamo
We're doing 1 B right now, and I think the "mental math" part comes FROM the pictures. I think the pictures teach the kiddos to SEE the problem, and it makes it easier for them to do it in their head later. We started out with Right Start and we still use the abacus from it for that reason-to help C to really see in her head what she's doing. I think there's also a lot of emphasis on understanding math, instead of just memorizing it, and that's where the mental math comes in too. For example, yesterday she did problems like 3+7, 13+7, and 33+7. That was easy because she had been doing similar problems for a while and she knew what to do. Sure, there were pictures, but I honestly don't think she really looked at them. I did use the pictures for the first problem to teach her what they were doing, but I really don't think she needed it, and she didn't look at them the rest of the time.

As far as it being easy and just letting him rush through it, I personally would do as Kathleen said-just take it easy and don't let him rush through it. Almost all of 1A (and some of 1B too it looks like) was review for us. We had just finished RightStart A when we switched to Singapore. We still did all of the activities that Carrie has scheduled with each lesson. We did double up quite frequently at first, doing 2, and very rarely 3, lessons a day, but that is only because C LOVES math. That's what she asks to do for fun. I really want to get her some puzzle blocks, tangrams, etc so that when she wants to do math for something to do that we can have some other things for her. But I digress... :lol: Although we did go through it a little quickly at first, we always did the actual lesson, and I'm really trying now to only have her do one lesson a day. She is really understanding math and she loves it! Also, she is learning her facts and I have NEVER drilled her on it. Not once. She has surprised me by knowing right off the top of her head what 4+4 was, what 2+ just about any number is, and so much more. I think Singapore (with Carrie's hands on lessons, of course! :D ) really does teach amazingly well. It does look simple, and I know I have a tendancy to want to push a little (not that you do, I'm just saying that's how I am :D ) when I know that C is good at something, so doing it as written has helped me to give C time to absorb the material.

Anyway, I hope some of that helps! That's just our experience and I just want to share!

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:38 am
by Carrie
tiffanie,

I'm going to link you to a recent thread of moms with similar questions to yours. Note my answer in this particular thread as it will really help you think through how to best use Singapore math: :D
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3062

Blessings,
Carrie

Re: More Singapore math questions!!

Posted: Sat Mar 28, 2009 10:57 am
by Carrie
tiffanie,

I'm also going to paste a few of my responses from some previous Singapore threads below that may be of some help as well. :D

Here's the first one: :wink:

I don't believe in a one-size fits all approach to math, however I do think Singapore comes much closer in meeting that goal than most. Many programs such as Math-U-See, Rod and Staff, ABeka, and Saxon go the drill, drill, drill route in order to get kiddos to have the concepts down pat. Singapore takes a different approach, with fewer problems that are of a higher level. At times, some students may need some extra practice on concepts to cement what Singapore provides. However, at our house we haven't found the need to supplement yet. We also know that it is easier to add additional practice or flashcard drills than it is to add higher-level thinking or more mental math.

The early years of Singapore are for exposure, not mastery in every area. Singapore comes back to those concepts steadily building on the foundation laid within the previous books to bring the child to a mastery level. Many kiddos find they get to "know" their facts just by going through the Singapore program year after year. Others kiddos may need some additional help in practicing their facts.

Here's the next one: :D

The activities written within our manuals are your teacher's guide for the younger years. As you get into the levels of Singapore from 3A on up, the Textbook/Workbook combination becomes your teaching time. Once you get to 5A/5B and 6A/6B, we will include the Home Instructor's Manuals available from Singapore (not the Teacher's Guides). These provide some additional practice and instruction for those more difficult upper levels of Singapore, which we feel is needed at those upper levels at least some of the time.

I just wanted to mention that if you're doing Earlybird 2A/2B with LHFHG, you will want to use the hands-on activities within LHFGH that go along with Earlybird 2A/2B. These make a huge difference in how well your child will understand the Singapore math and will also give you the needed practice that you are wanting. It is a huge help to have the hands-on lessons. I would not rush your kindergartner ahead, because you'll only find you'll need to slow down and fill-in later when it gets more difficult at the upper levels.

As far as the 1A/1B goes, the Beyond guide's activities really do help cement the concepts if you have a hands-on learner. It's also a good idea to follow the pace we have set up in the Teacher's Guide for the short, bite-sized lessons so your kiddos don't go too fast through the Singapore workbooks and miss cementing the concepts.

In Singapore 1A/1B if you don't get the Beyond guide for the hands-on lessons, it will be important for you to use manipulatives so your little honey can "see" the concepts and "manipulate" them. So, instead of thinking your little sweetie needs to master her facts in 1st grade, you'd instead see 16 + 3 as a chance to lay out 16 bears or blocks and then add 3 more, counting on from 16 on up to 19 to get the answer. There's no need to memorize the facts in first grade in order to understand the process. The facts will come much easier if you wait until your little honey is in second grade or even third grade, as it will make more sense then.

It helps me when assessing progress to think of the early years of math as an exploration and an introduction, with the mastery of the material coming later. We want to get kiddos thinking mathematically and learning how math is used all around us. The getting the right answer is only one part of math, and you can expect your kiddos to be making mistakes when they're first learning about something. Most teachers in school do not grade kiddos assignments when a new concept has been introduced. The kiddos need time to explore it and to grasp it first. Often that new concept may go in and out of their mind several times within the next few years, and at first they may not seem like they remember it. But, each time they revisit it through the years they get a little more secure in their understanding and file away a little more about it. Think of math as a process that takes time to mature into understanding and applying. Slow, steady bite-sized pacing will reap big rewards over time.

And one more: :wink:

As far as Singapore goes, it does use a different sequence of exploring math concepts from most other programs. It will go further with exploring a concept than is traditional. So while a traditional scope and sequence for first grade math wouldn't teach 16 + 3 until the child has learned to do double digit addition, Singapore will teach it along with counting on from single digit numbers. It is taught as a natural extension of single digit addition, rather than bogging down the child in teaching the method or rules of double-digit addition first. Singapore will do this with all of its concepts. It will let the child think to figure out harder answers, as a natural extension of the lesson, rather than teaching the method first and then having kiddos follow that method to do the problems.

For those of us who learned math as a series of rules or steps you follow to get the answer, rather than as a thinking process you discover to learn "how" to find the answer, it can be interesting to do math the Singapore way. I learned math by the rules and steps. I must admit that Singapore has shown me how to think about math in a whole new way. It has been interesting to watch my sons come up with the answers without me always having to tell them, "This is how you do it first".

If you take a look at any good math program, especially those from long-ago, you'll notice a combination of procedure and thinking. My grandpa had an 8th grade education and lived to be 94. He was very adept at math and finances and never had any difficulty functioning in the world of today. Yet, kiddos are graduating every day who can not count money or make change, even though they have been drilled and drilled on how to add and subtract.

Singapore does a good job of combining exploration with the process of learning new concepts. It strives to help kiddos learn to think mathematically. There is definitely a place for computation and for memorization too, which I have heard that some people add to Singapore once and awhile. We've not found the need to add anything yet. I tend to err on the side of giving kiddos every opportunity to learn their facts on their own through the math program. Then there is usually only a few facts remaining to be drilled once they get to second or third grade. In this way, kiddos can see math as more than a memorization excercise. They can actually learn how to find the answer when they may not automatically know it. :D

Blessings,
Carrie