Singapore with special needs?

[water2wine]

I am using Singapore with my younger two and Bob Jones with my older four. I did not go Singapore with my oldest four because they came from ps and I was afraid it would blow them out of the water. I wish now that I had back tracked and just gone for it. Anyway all my children are doing well with math except for my special needs child. I think I need something that teaches more to the child in the text. Some of the thinking type math in BJU is too obscure for her. She has memory issues so I am thinking something spiral would be good for her. I am looking at putting her back another year perhaps and choosing between CLE and Singapore maybe. I am surprised to be looking at either really because I know they both have some advanced thinking in them but she does not do well with the conventional things that usually work for special needs. She has an average IQ she just has damage in the area of her brain that controls math and language. Whatever we use she will need a lot of help from me and that is fine but she is stubborn about asking for help so it has occurred to me that we really need something that teaches directly to the child or at least has very good presentation to the child. I have only used Singapore up through first grade only so I have no experience with the upper levels through sixth grade. Is anyone using it for special needs in the upper elementary levels and found it to work well and does it look like it teaches more to the child then some of the other math programs do? Any thoughts on using it with a special needs child slowly at a lower level? Finding the right thing for her is a lot of trial and error but I am finding that a big key is presentation.

I appreciate any wisdom you all can share with me whether you have a special needs child, a struggler or just have wisdom, even a good guess would be great.

[spidermansmum]

Hi I hope this helps some.
I have two kids whose needs are not standard.My daughter excells in some areas but has some short term memory and fine motor co ordination problems.We have a 6 yo with aspergers.With each one there is alot of trial and error in finding something that makes the click.I have found that computer games on line and leapster are great for practising a skill and with a short term memory problem its means we have to do an awful lot more repitiion to get the thing nailed down in their minds.So anythi ng that gives that repitition is a good thing.The trouble is it needs [at least in this house] to be fun or the repitition doesnt happen.There are soome good websites that have games that re enforce math skills.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/ks1bitesize/numeracy/ they do Key stage 2 too and KS3 there are a few others out there but this one is quite good and free.I allow my kids to earn some computer time.

[water2wine]

Thank you maybe we can try some of that again. It is really strange but she does not respond well with computer or any of the other things that normally help. I don't understand why except for her disability is a brain damage so maybe that pathway just does not connect for her. For some reason writing and making her say things back are the two things I have found that work for her. So it is the making her do the language part and writing that I have found to be the most affective. The translation from computer to paper is just not there for her. But having said all that I appreciate the tip and maybe we will revisit that again on the side. Thanks for the sites.

I guess part of the reason I am looking for something that teaches to her and explains to ehr is it helps her participate in the language part of it and I know that is how she learns or I guess I should say that is her block so she needs to engage in it to get the math. It also helps us get around the stubbornness that would rather sit for hours than ask a question. She might maybe have a chance of getting it on her own if it actually has some explanation in it. I know we can kind of grunt through Rod and Staff and she will learn but I am looking for something where she can maybe engage more in it if that makes sense. I want to get her in that thinking mode so she can take more responsibility for her own learning. She desperately needs that.

[spidermansmum]

Ahhh We had the problem of her poor fine motor skills- so writing is hard for her.We found computers allowed her to slect an answer without having to spend ages trying to write it .Its amazing how each child learns in their own style.

[dale1088]

water2wine,

Have you thought about posting this question on the Well Trained Mind forum? It's busier than here and they have their own forum for special needs kids. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/f ... ay.php?f=6

HTH!!!

[water2wine]

water2wine,

Have you thought about posting this question on the Well Trained Mind forum? It's busier than here and they have their own forum for special needs kids. http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/f ... ay.php?f=6

HTH!!!

Honestly I had not thought of that. But that is a great idea. I kind of gave up on special needs forums because the things that typically work are not what works for her. But that would be a good place to look and maybe ask a few questions. I actually never post on that board. Just peak there when I am looking for info. This might be a good thing to post about. Thanks for the suggestion.

[yayadaisy]

Well with each child it is different, but I also have special needs child and he does great in math, but his reading is very slow in coming. I have tried some different styles with reading for him and it just seems that being presisant and move slowly at times if needed works best for him. If you like singapore math then stick with it. If you already know how to teach it you will be able to explain it better to your dd. I love sinapore math myself, but I have a friend who it did not work for her child. We are doing 2a right now. I don't know it this has really helped, but keep in mind you know your child best, so whatever you do will be in the best interest of your child I am sure!

Sheila mom to five great kids, one angel and one on the way!

[Carrie]

water2wine,

I do think that it would be worth giving Singapore a try with your younger child, even if she has some special needs. I think the number of problems, the amount of white space on the page, and the visual way they represent the problems would all be benefits for her. I do think too many problems of daily practice is a draining thing for all types of kiddos, including those with special needs, and sometimes all the bells and whistles in a math program get in the way of the real math learning. So, Singapore is the no frills, no bells, straight up math "thinking" approach. Since you're already using it with some of your kiddos you know how it is designed.

I'd definitely give it a trial run, as it is so different from BJU and Rod and Staff that you mentioned were not working for her. A new perspective may be a good thing for her. With special needs kiddos, it is a "try and see" approach in many areas, which I know can be frustrating at times.

Blessings,
Carrie

[water2wine]

Thank you! I appreciate your wisdom on this. I have one issue to consider and discuss with my dd on her being able to emotionally handle my first grader eventually passing ehr up in Math if they were to use the same program and then again her younger sister do the same. It's that one last piece of the puzzle for me to consider. Emotionally she is very immature and this type of thing in the past has thrown her for a loop that lasted too long for me. I guess I need to pray and talk with her about this. But I agree we do need something that approaches it completely different. And you are completely right, lots of things are just try and see with kids that have special needs. Thanks for the advice! I appreciate it.

[Carrie]

water2wine,

You are so right to consider the comparison factor within your kiddos using the same math and a younger child passing up an older one. That is a tough call.

I wonder if you could get out from under that by using a different version of Singapore math with her, possibly using the Standards Based version with her, since your kiddos are using the Primary U.S. version? The Standards version looks completely different and has much more writing, so if that is the way she learns best it could cement that for her (and the different version could stop the comparison). Just a thought.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

water2wine - I can't be of much help here, but I will pray for you as you make this decision. I did tutor many students struggling with math, and I can say that no matter what I had to use for a program - it was best if we did these 3 things:
1. shorter amounts of work
2. set the timer for a certain amount of time and when it rang we stopped
3. varied the learning between using markerboards and paper/pencil
I think Singapore fits with these guidelines well. I wonder if you could just remove the front and back covers (as well as the introductory part - table of contents, etc) and just 3 hole punch the pages, putting them in a binder. This would remove any markings noting the level of the books and help avoid the comparison.

In Christ,
Julie

[water2wine]

Thanks for the tips Julie. I appreciate that.

Carrie I think that is a good idea going with the other line of Singapore. I think it does not matter what I do to the cover she will know it is the same and as much as she will say it does not matter what I will have is a lot of resentment to trudge through kind of passive aggressively. And the younger ones will not want to hurt her feelings but will manage to do it any way. Just a BTDT thing. But I do think the two different types would work. I am going to have her try the samples and the test. Mean while I did order CLE. My gut feeling about that is less language is better since reading is not her friend and she does not connect well words to math concepts and I know it was the language of BJU that really threw her off. But I do see things in Singapore that look good and actually I like this version better for her. I think what I will do is do a side by side comparison maybe and even if I have to have her try a bit of both that will be fine. I do think between the two we can find a winner.

I really appreciate all the advice. I think now it comes down to prayer and a reality test. We just have to experiment a bit. It's normal to hit a wall and I have learned that sometimes some curriculum is good for some things and in time you just need another at least for her. What I love about HOD is that she can do all of HOD and I know that will always be a good fit for her. I can take her way above her special needs with HOD in all other areas so that all I have to even worry about is her actual area of need in reading, language and math. I am going to have her try the standard edition and look at it compared to CLE and I think have her try both a bit perhaps unless it is an obvious answer what will be best. I appreciate all the help!

[Carrie]

water2wine,

I'll say a prayer that you'll have peace in your decision and will find what will work best for your little honey in math at this season in her life.

Blessings,
Carrie

[water2wine]

Thank you Carrie. We'll get there. The blessing is that with HOD the things she has issues with are greatly reduced. If we did not have HOD I would probably just be saying well she needs math and reading and we are going to need to focus only on those and forget the rest until she can read. But instead I am able to teach her way above her reading level with HOD and she is able to get what she never could if I were using something else. Not to mention I have the time to agonize over the things I need to with her that I simply would not be able to address if we were not using HOD. That also is a blessing. We'll get there. She and I are both stubborn so eventually we will get it and this is just the dance you do when you have a child that has learning issues. Thank god I can do it. If she were in ps I am sure she would not even be reading yet and math would be basic addition and subtraction only. I am certain of it. Forget about history or science she just would not get it. So we are doing well and I am not stressed just trying to find the best solution for us is all. I appreciate your help and prayers!

[Benelli]

water2wine,

I just wanted to say I have a daughter with special needs as well. She has short term memory problems, auditory processing delays, and expressive/receptive language delays, word retrieval problems. After all our testing with a Speech Pathhologist, she is in the moderate/severe range in those items. For her, LOTS of repitition is key. Her long term memory is really good! Once it gets there, she usually "has" it. (But, then, retrieving it from her memory in a timely fashion sometimes is very hard for her.) Anyway, she was in a private Christian Kindergarten last year. While it was an great school using Abeka and Bob Jones, I basically had to re-start phonics with her this year with The Reading Lesson. She had completely fooled the teachers into thinkig she was reading at a *much* higher level than she was. And, it was because of the sheer volume of repitition from hearing other children around her reading the readers over and over and over! It was ALL memorized!! If we took even a small 3 letter word like "top" out of the page, she couldn't even sound it out! And, she actually sometimes STILL has trouble with 3 letter words! Still sounds out many small words. Yet, her teachers never did fully believe me that she was NOT actually reading! It was my first realization of how a child might get through large class schooling without actually having learned to read! (Nothing bad about her teachers, but just that she was very capable of compensating for her disabilities!) Anyway, she still struggles greatly with phonics. She is almost 8, and is being bypassed by all 3 of her younger brothers in reading. But she IS steadily progressing and we are very pleased with her progress. It does seem to bother her, that her younger brothers are stronger readers, but I try to stress the ways God has blessed her with special abilities, too. She is an absolute natural at any sport she tries and opposing teams even come up to us to compliment her amazing soccer abilities. Reminding her that God gifted each of us differently seems to help her...

Anyway, I'm not really addressing your question yet... So, about math... She IS doing very well with Singapore so far. We are in 1B, and are right on track with keeping pace in our guide. Sometimes I have to re-word descriptions of what the actual "instructions" say for her to do, but once she understands what the instructions are for a particular set of math problems (again, a language thing), the math part she seems to really "get". She has absolutely blossomed since being homeschooled and using LHFHG exactly as written, including Singapore math! Hope that helps!

Blessings,