Benefits of NOT combining children?

[Daisy]

I'm new to the HOD forum and seriously considering Ancients. Surprise! I really thought I was going to use something else or pull together my own resources. But HOD Ancients looks wonderful and contains several resources I already own.

I used LHFHG with my Kindergarten son in 07/08 and he really loved it. However he still tagged along with all his sister's history/science as well and she listened to all his read-alouds. I was pulling double duty. LOL. DS has always tagged along with his older sister for history and science and loved it. He is very bright. Still remembers what we learned back when he was four and we were using Beautiful Feet Primary American History. We enjoy the interaction that happens when history, science, and Bible are together. Kids ages right now are DS 7yo (1st grader) and DD 9.5yo (4th grader). Both are advanced readers. DS is a reluctant writer but capable. So my questions...

1. Do you see benefits in keeping your children in completely separate programs?

2. What is the time commitment like for you, as the parent?

3. Do your children miss the interaction with each other? Group projects, in-depth discussions, etc.

4. Have any of you gone from a successful combined program to using separate programs with HOD?

5. How do you afford it?

I'd really like to combine both children into Ancients. The books and memory work look completely doable for my son. I would substitute age-appropriate independent reading (where necessary) and he'd do his own language arts & math.

Am I crazy? LOL.

Daisy (some of you may know me from other forums.. wink)

[Amey]

Hi Daisy,

I don't have any answers for you, but I just wanted to say it's good to see you over here *wink*

[water2wine]

Daisy just want to say welcome. I know we are all excited to see you here. I know you are going to get great answers. I wanted to answer just one part of what you asked about the benefits of not combining. I actually do both combine and separate so I kind of have both worlds going and see the benefits of both. But one thing about having them separate that I love that you can't get in a program whose philosophy is to combine and cater to the highest level is that you really can use material they completely understand and is on their exact level to show them God's hand in everything. I think that it is easier for them to see that and apply it to more complex things if the initial concept is actually taught on their level. I see it over and over with my two littlest that they catch things way above their age in wisdom just because they really got the God lesson taught on their developmental level and applied that to something very grown up in their own life. That is the thing I think you do not realize until you go from having them all together (as I did really before HOD in a lot of way and with one program particularly that taught to all of them at once) to separating them. The other thing is that I have found is that they really blossom intellectually in general when they are really catered to individually on their level.

I could also talk of the benefits of having kids together and we do all come together to read from the Bible outside of HOD for that reason. But I love for HOD having them separate to be able to really hit their hearts at their level. Plus I have found for us it is way easier and takes less time than tweaking for me personally with six kids. So that is just to speak to that issue. I am glad to see you here I know the ladies here will get you the best placement possible for your family.

[butterfly113]

Welcome to the Board!

I would think that your DS would probably do just fine going along with big DD with Ancients. He is bright, and reading well above grade level. He is also accustomed to working on History and Science, Bible and Literature with her, so it would not be something new. He would be doing Math and Language Arts at his own level. With the copywork, dictation and narration, he would still be working on the same topics with her, but at his ability... make sense? OR...
you could do Preparing and give DD a few extra readers at her level, and her copywork, dictation and narration would be at her ability and DS still at his. Either way, I really think they would do well together. HTH!

[susie in ms]

If it were me and there were any way possible I would combine my children. My oldest 3 were close enough that we could combine some subjects that they love it. They were able to share their findings, enjoy each other, and grow together. My main regret with having a little one so far apart from the others is that in many, many ways she is an only child. She will never know the joy of sharing school work, experiments, etc. Not to mention that it makes life more manageable for Mommy.

[water2wine]

Daisy one thing that just came to mind is that I do have really two together minimum all the time and I did bend things to combine my younger two and my older four for that benefit. It has worked very well for us and I do find a great deal of flexibility in HOD. Just in thinking a bit if I could have a way that Carrie thought the program could work together and it would not create a problem for the youngest down the line I would go for it. I think your children are exceptionally bright and know you are a very gifted teacher as well. I see what you are wanting in the bond of keeping them together. I think I would really explore that option for your family as I know you are. But just really honestly putting myself in your shoes with two very bright children and only two I think it would also be my heart to combine if I could also make that best for them in the end. So in all honesty I would be thinking the same way and tweaking if need be. I know Carrie or Julie also will be answering soon. Julie edits and of course Carrie writes so they have both actually seen the teacher manual part and know how all the resources are applied. The rest of us are trying to be patient until March when we get to see as well. Who would have thought God would use this to teach me patience.

[8arrows]

Are you against combining with Preparing? Ancients would be more than I would want to attempt with my 2nd and 3rd graders. The ladies here are great with creative ideas. I am currently deciding whether to combine my 2nd and 3rd grade boys with their 6th grade sister (grades next year) or to separate. I can understand that it would be different with two children. It is great to see you on this board as I always enjoy your posts on the other two boards I am familiar with you from. My first and second graders (current ages) are using Beyond this year and having a great time.

[Daisy]

I'm not really interested in using Preparing simply because we've read all of the books listed in the basic package. My DD is going into 5th grade and I'd really like her to finish a history rotation before High School. My plan was to use many of the books listed in HOD Ancients anyway. That is why I was excited to see someone had done my work for me. LOL.

I looked at the younger packages and what is going to happen if I go with two different packages is that my kids are going to want to do all of each other's package. LOL. No way does one want to do independent work while the other one is listening to Mom read a great story. Been there, done that.

You all are giving me wonderful things to think about. Thank you for answering.

[inHistiming]

So, is it the time commitment that's worrying you if you were to do two diferent programs? We are combined in Bigger...this year, but my ds often liked to sit in on the readings of my daughter last year when we were doing Beyond...and he was in a different program. I would allow him to do that, with the understanding that he still had his other work to complete and it would be his responsibility to do so...sometimes he would sit in and somtimes he wouldn't. So, you might be able to do that with your dc if it looks like they would place in different manuals. I always have my dc do their independent work this year at the same time either before or after we have done the reading portion. If we decide to separate them next year (we're considering this) I plan to still do that, get younger ds's work done in LHFHG during that time, then do the reading with each dc separately while the other child plays with youngest ds. If we are still combined (in Preparing...), then obviously we would just do the readings together, and youngest ds will play on his own or listen if he chooses and can do so quietly.

One benefit I can see to NOT combining is that each child will have the opportunity to answer the Bible questions, narrate, make guesses in science, etc. without the other child answering first or being interrupted by the other child. And, those reluctant to answer will be forced to do so because it will just be that dc and Mom. This year that has been a bit of an issue, with one child answering and mom having to prompt the other to answer...or one trying to answer and being interrupted by the other. Plus, each child would be right on their level which is a definite benefit.

[butterfly113]

A thought after reading some of the other great responses. I think if it's possible to combine, that would be the best, given what you have described of them academically and personality wise. If need be to help DS 'cement' anything, you could pick up an independent reader book on the given topic, when it is necessary. That would give him something to read on his own, at his level, to cement and bring to light the things he is hearing when you read, or when they do work together.

[beandip71]

I don't have any advice for you. I just wanted to say welcome !!

[kayrenee]

Hi, Daisy! I just noticed your name here on the board and sent you a PM.

I'm planning to separate my girls in their history and science studies next year, but I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to go with Preparing or Ancients for middle dd.

Good to see you here!

[Carrie]

Daisy,

This is such an interesting topic with many different answers. We have moms who successfully use HOD by combining and moms who successfully separate their kiddos in different programs. Whether to combine or not often depends on several different factors... such as the ages and personalities of the kiddos, the educational philosophy of the parent, the level of the 3R's of your kiddos, and whether the parent is willing to tweak a program or would rather use it "as is".

At our house, I realized early on that combining was not going to work well for me due to the age spread in my kiddos and their personality styles. Having 4 boys with very different personalities, I discovered that my older son tended to overshadow my second son. My second son was more than content to let my older son do all the sharing and the thinking. As far as my second little guy was concerned he was just along for the ride. I was also using Sonlight at that point, which didn't combine well or easily for me anyway. So, we have used separate programs for our kiddos ever since my oldest hit third grade. With the ages and personalities of my boys, the combining decision was a pretty easy one. I have a 7th grader, 4th grader, K/1st grader, and a just turned 3 year old.

1. Do you see benefits in keeping your children in completely separate programs?
The benefits I see in keeping my kiddos separate is that I have special time with each one to discuss and talk about heart issues and Biblical training. I know each child is getting what he needs on his level and has a tailored instructional path. Each child is also responsible for responding and must take ownership of his learning, as no one will be answering for him.

2. What is the time commitment like for you, as the parent?
We begin school at 9:10 at which point all kiddos are done with breakfast and ready to work. We complete school by 2:30 or 3:00, with a 45 min. lunch and a 45 min. to 1 hour recess break within that time as well.

3. Do your children miss the interaction with each other? Group projects, in-depth discussions, etc.
My kiddos have an hour before school together, have "recess" together, and eat lunch together. They are together each afternoon and evening after their work is done. On Fridays, we do more together things as we have a shortened school day and play with the cousins. We usually do poetry, read-alouds, and anything else I wish to combine at lunch.

4. Have any of you gone from a successful combined program to using separate programs with HOD?
I can't say that we were ever very successful with our combining prior to using HOD.

5. How do you afford it?
That is one of the perks of being the author. Seriously though, we do include all ISBN #'s and book details to make it as easy as possible for you to use your library if you desire. Many moms plan ahead and keep their HOD catalog with them (at all times ) looking for future HOD books and buying them as they run across a deal here and there. We often try to make our guides have at least one package that does not require the use of those exact books, leaving leeway up to you to substitute your own titles instead. DITHR works with any books you choose. The Storytime Read-alouds for Beyond, Bigger, and the new ancients guide work that way as well. All of our guides provide Bible references so you can use your own Bible. We also package our guides in levels to show you what is most important. We have moms who successfully use HOD only using the Economy Package. All core learning is planned to go around the Economy Package in each of our guides.

I just wanted to welcome you to the boards and let you know we're glad to have you here. The ladies on the board are wonderful at helping you talk through options until you find the one that works for you.

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Welcome to the HOD board, Daisy! I am currently doing Beyond Little Hearts for His Glory and Preparing Hearts for His Glory. Since we didn't choose to combine, I'll share that side of the coin - but, I firmly believe that one of the many strengths of HOD is that it can be used in many different ways, adjusted for each family's specific wants and needs. Many wonderful ladies on this board combine and are very happy with it - and many don't, and are happy with it. So, I will make your peace about this decision a matter of prayer, because ultimately God will lead you to the best answer for your situation.

1. Do you see benefits in keeping your children in completely separate programs?
Yes, I do. My 2 dc are world's apart in abilities, and doing 2 programs helps me teach each of them skills that one of them might miss otherwise. I am specifically thinking of the younger one here. Skills like orally narrating, answering comprehension questions, beginning notebooking, writing well, etc. might be difficult for him to learn because the material he'd be doing it with would be harder and not on his comprehension level to begin with. I also like the special instructions in the HOD guides for teaching the beginning levels of these skills and would greatly miss that hand-holding for my ds as he learns new skills. I also like having special time alone with our dc, especially when it comes to Bible study. We have had much more meaningful talks this way because I can go deeper with my older ds, and with my younger ds, his answers don't seem silly because older brother isn't sharing better answers all of the time. Another reason I don't combine is the competition factor. I have a sister who combined her older 3, and the youngest of them has always felt behind, even though she is actually advanced. Everything has felt like a struggle for her because nothing has really been on her actual learning level. She could see her ability to answer questions well, understand the material well, produce notebooking pages or projects well, was always less than her siblings' abilities to do so, and she has always felt behind because of it. I also like my younger ds to finish school a earlier and have time just to play because he really needs it. He then plays with his other younger sibling, which is important to me too. I also feel it takes less time to combine because I am not modifying things. There's no waiting for the other one to finish. Now, I am not saying that this is everyone's experience - I think many families combine successfully and enjoy it a lot! I do schedule independent things near us, so that they can listen in on the other child's Storytime, etc. when possible. That way they can listen but also work. We do poetry all together at lunch - otherwise though, they're pretty much separate.

2. What is the time commitment like for you, as the parent?
I think in my situation, the time commitment is actually less than if I was doing 1 program. We begin at 8:15 AM and finish by about 12:30 PM. It is very manageable. I don't plan ahead.

3. Do your children miss the interaction with each other? Group projects, in-depth discussions, etc.
My dc spend the rest of the day being together exploring, playing, and having a blast together. If they went off and did separate things, or if we had them in separate extracurricular activities from one another, they would definitely miss each other - and if that were the case, I would find more ways to combine them whenever I could. They are each other's best friends, and they know a lot about each other's school anyway, just from the close proximity of all of us in the home. But one of our primary goals in homeschooling is for our dc to be each other's closest friends as well as siblings. If we weren't able to meet that need any other time than during homeschooling time, we'd probably combine.

4. Have any of you gone from a successful combined program to using separate programs with HOD?
I've always used separate programs thus far.

5. How do you afford it?
My dh and I have set aside a certain amount of money for each of our dc's homeschooling each year. We budget for it all year. I also do not purchase homeschool materials randomly - have you ever seen moms at book fairs with 10-20 books for their children to read for fun (which they'll use once), a leather slingshot, a bug finder, a crystal rock that grows, and a $10.95 baked potato for lunch from the baked potato bar - and then not enough money for curriculum? I'm getting silly here, but you KWIM! I could so easily be that way - I love books and I could get pulled into the slingshot purchase too!!! I really have to guard against that. But, I spend my money first and foremost on our curriculum. We also live in a 100 yo house and have many other penny-pinching things we do that I will spare you the details.

With all of that being said - Daisy, it sounds like you have really enjoyed combining your dc, and you have also seen that it has worked well for you! That is something to weigh. Please keep posting here and asking questions, batting around ideas, until you come to a scenario you are happiest with - but, whatever HOD program(s) you decide upon, I know you will be glad you've chosen HOD! I firmly believe it will keep me happily homeschooling for the long haul, and that is my prayer for you whatever you choose.

In Christ,
Julie

[my3sons]

Hi, Daisy! I just noticed your name here on the board and sent you a PM.

I'm planning to separate my girls in their history and science studies next year, but I haven't decided yet whether I'm going to go with Preparing or Ancients for middle dd.

Good to see you here!

I just wanted to say "hi" to you Kayrenee! I'm doing PHFHG now, so if you have any questions specific to that, I'll try to help out. I'm having a great year with PHFHG, and I can't wait for the CTC guide though - so I may be just too excited about the both of them to help you decide.

In Christ,
Julie