Make me like Singapore!!! :)

[pbt1294]

I'm VERY seriously considering using HOD next year for my brood. I will have a preschooler, 2nd, 3rd, and 5th grader (also a two year old). We have been using Sonlight for the last 3 years. Our math program has been Horizons, although my oldest used TT5 this past year. I tried using Singapore books 1b and 2a two years ago and hated it. I never felt like I was teaching the concepts right (no teachers manual) and I didn't feel like there was ever enough review. For instance, we covered time telling in the fall and never reviewed it. When we were preparing for required tests at the end of the year I realized my 2nd grader couldn't tell time and we had to do a crash course so she wouldn't miss those questions on her standardized tests. Is this just my problem? Do I just need more "handholding" as far as reviewing than singapore offers? I'll admit I like it when my curriculum tells me exactly what to do. I just have too many kids and too much going on in other areas of my life to plan out my own reviews. I don't think that this makes me a lazy person or teacher, just realistic. I know what my strengths and weaknesses are and planning is not one of my strengths. Anyway, I still really want to like Singapore!!! I mean, I read such awesome reviews and when I decided I wanted to try HOD, Singapore is the recommended math. It just HAS to be good, RIGHT? I also am confused about how advanced it is supposed to be. The concepts covered don't seem as advanced as the concepts covered in Horizons. Please explain this to me.

Thanks,
Kyle Thomas

[eazbnsmom]

Hi Kyle,

Welcome to HOD! I have never used Singapore, but am considering for my very math oriented boy next year. We use Math U See and it fits in fine with HOD! So if you have a math program you like and are comfortable working with you can use that and HOD too, it is very flexible that way. So if not liking Singapore is the only thing preventing you from Heart of Dakota, in this case you can "have your cake and eat it too"!

I am rereading your post, I would say give Singapore a try for your youngest school age child. I believe that you would normally start them one leve below their grade leve as it it supposed to best, but the best way to find out what level they are ready for is to use their placement tests.

http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm

Hope this helps! :0)

[mansmom]

I have to agree not to let Singapore hold you back on HOD...we do Horizons math along with HOD and it is perfect...for us...I have actually ordered Singapore and returned it...it just wasn't a good fit for my family...but I really wanted to do it bc math was the only thing we were doing that was "non-HOD"....anyway...if Horizons (or TT) is working for you....there is nothing wrong with staying with it...that's the beauty of HOD...you can make it fit your family...it's awesome!

[Tansy]

Don't forget Carrie gives you almost daily activities that go along with the books. I agree at some of the younger lvls the teachers guides for singapore were near useless.
I personally did everything I could to make singapore work for my eldest but we ended up with Dad working Math U see for her in the long run. Singapore ran to fast for her.

Now I'm starting my youngest out with singapore again and she loves it, Infact she wants to do more and more and says its easy. Which is a big change from My eldest.

THe greatness of HOD is it's flexibility if it is not working you can always change it. I find it funny you want o love it but you really don't want to. the good news is no one will make you like it

[deltagal]

Once upon a time I tried Singapore. It didn't make sense to me, we labored, everyone was frustrated. They didn't get it. I didn't get it. We switched our math material. But then, years later after having my children doing really well in math, but recognizing that they really didn't understand what they were doing, I decided to revisit Singapore. I was different. My expectations were different. I was willing to allow my children to linger with the lessons, to play with the information, to experiment, to talk. I love Singapore...now. It is a very different mindset. It is not a box-checker math. It's very much a seed that you have to be wiling to let sprout. The lessons are extremely simplistic. It takes you into advanced math concepts in tid-bits and when you realize where you are and what you're doing - it's quite surprising.

[Amey]

We use CLE Math with Singapore as a supplement. I tried using Singapore as our primary program but felt much the same way you did. Not being a math-minded person myself, I needed a math program with a TM that gave me a little more hand-holding. Also, not having learned math the Singapore way, I wanted something more familiar to me so I I could feel like I had a grasp on what I was teaching. We do our Singapore math on days that we are really busy or have stuff planned away from home because the lessons are so short. He enjoys it and I feel good about him using both types of math. CLE will remain our primary program though and this works just wonderfully with the HOD guides!

[Carrie]

While you can easily use any math program you prefer along with HOD, I do need to clarify a few things about Singapore math. Singapore is actually known for its higher level thinking, its mental math, and its focus on understanding the "why" behind the "how". Its strength is in helping kiddos analyze and understand where the math rules and processes come from. This emphasis on higher level thinking is also the reason why some kiddos have a bit of a struggle sometimes with Singapore math, and why you'll hear mixed reviews about it at times, like you will with any math program.

In the end, those who stay with Singapore typically end up testing very well and having a good understanding of math. It's a math program that is used by many, many public, private, and homeschools across the nation, and it holds up well under rigorous inspection of concept coverage and is known to have an advanced scope and sequence.

I don't believe in a one-size fits all approach to math, however I do think Singapore comes much closer in meeting that goal than most. Many programs such as Math-U-See, Rod and Staff, ABeka, and Saxon go the drill, drill, drill route in order to get kiddos to have the concepts down pat. Singapore takes a different approach, with fewer problems that are of a higher level. At times, some students may need some extra practice on concepts to cement what Singapore provides. However, at our house we haven't found the need to supplement yet. We also know that it is easier to add additional practice or flashcard drills than it is to add higher-level thinking or more mental math.

So, if you're considering Singapore, I'd encourage you to commit to using it for more than one year. You'll definitely see the fruit after that time. All math programs will also have times when your kiddos will hit snags or bumps in the road. Staying with a program through the bumps helps keep your kiddo's math path consistent and will lessen their gaps. If you're having tears every day with math for an extended period of time, then it is time to switch programs. If not, you're most likely fine with what you have.

Mathematical retention is difficult to judge when kiddos are young. It often comes and goes, and sometimes the retention you think you're getting with a new math program is just the fruit of the math program that came before. I share this to show that all math programs will have mixed reviews, because moms often don't stay with a math program long enough to see it's fruit. I know this because I have been guilty of it myself.

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

Thank you so much for your very well stated, well informed review on Singapore. I have been reluctant as well, but the more I have read and the more I work with it the more I am starting to enjoy teaching it! My son loves it and is doing great with it. Using 2 math programs is going to be too much so I will stick with Singapore.
I am continuing to lift you and Julie up in prayer for all the review and decisions and the writing you do.
That the Lord will give you much wisdom as you write the guides and all the wonderful responses to us Moms.

[pbt1294]

I want to thank everyone for your responses. I just pulled out my daugters 1B book we used two years ago and began looking through it again. I kinda remembered some of my issues with it. I think I just floundered because I'm so used to scripted lessons. I don't alway use the lesson plans, but they at least let me know I'm on track. So, there are absolutely no teachers manuals below math 2A? Am I understanding that correctly? Also, do you guys who use singapore just plan your own reviews, or does Carrie have review suggestions in her books? For example I see in 1B that multiplication is focused on in Unit 4, then it is not mentioned again through out the rest of the book. How do the kids retain that info on multiplication? Am I just thinking too much about it, and the idea is to just "expose" them to it and it will come back later? Or after you teach a concept are you just supposed to remember to review it yourself? Do any of you use Singapore and also give the CAT at the end of your school year? How do your kids do? I'm thinking about getting the workbook for 1A and doing it with my girls since I already have the text, so maybe they can do level 2A when I order Bigger next year. Just to see how it goes. If it flops I can always stick with Horizons.

Thanks for letting me ramble,

Kyle Thomas (hsing mom of 5)

[moedertje]

There is a Textbook for 1A/1B Primary Mathematics, however Carrie does the "Textbook" (Math Explorations) part for Prim. Math 1A/1B in Beyond Little Hearts BLHFHG. She has very fun and retainable activities. My son loves them since it's usually a snack item that we use! So if you have the BLHFHG manual you will not need the textbook. She also does the Math Explorations as well in Bigger Hearts for 2A/2B.
If you are not planning on using the BLHFHG than it would probably be a good idea to get the Textbook so it will help you to explain the activity before hand.
I do not know about testing, but I did notice that they have a review section a little past the midway point.

[Carrie]

Kyle,

The early years of Singapore are for exposure, not mastery in every area. Singapore comes back to those concepts steadily building on the foundation laid within the previous books to bring the child to a mastery level. Many kiddos find they get to "know" their facts just by going through the Singapore program year after year. Others kiddos may need some additional help in practicing their facts.

While children who use Singapore do usually test very well in the math area, it's important to remember that standardized test scores also are a big reflection of a child's God-given ability. So, be mindful that while Singapore does a great job of teaching higher level thinking, it will not turn a child who struggles with math into a math whiz.

The activities written within our manuals are your teacher's guide for the younger years. As you get into the levels of Singapore from 3A on up, the Textbook/Workbook combination becomes your teaching time. Once you get to 5A/5B and 6A/6B, we will include the Home Instructor's Manuals available from Singapore (not the Teacher's Guides). These provide some additional practice and instruction for those more difficult upper levels of Singapore, which we feel is needed at those upper levels at least some of the time.

If you are enjoying your math program that you're using now and are having good success, then we wouldn't recommend a change. If it isn't broken, then don't fix it.

Blessings,
Carrie

[pbt1294]

Thanks Carrie,

I think I'm starting to understand. It takes me awhile

[tmcg]

I just want to say, I have two children in Singapore. My younger daughter who just turned 5 is doing the 2A/2B (Early bird) for Kindergarten, although she is using LHTH. My older daughter is 6 1/2 in 1st grade and is using LHFHG 1A/1B (which does have a textbook). My younger dd is a whiz at math, my older is struggling a bit more. One thing I had heard from curriculum reviews is that Singapore does not have much drill but other math curriculums are dry and boring. Some like Math-U-See, but i have not tried it. I think that Singapore is good but my 1st grader was moving too fast through the book and not learning.

They went from 4 + 5 to 16 +3 and I was like.....wait....hold the phone she has not learned the first part. Then my husband, who is very good at math, suggested we stop using the workbook until she learned her addition problems. So, I had gotten some addition flash cards from a Dollar Store and gave them as a stocking stuffer this last Christmas. I remember that in the Ruth Beechick book, The 3 R's (which is so insightful!) explained that we remember our math problems because we can "see it in our minds" but children have not learned it yet and therefore need to really see it to remember and learn it. Hence the need for manipulatives. So, to learn 4 + 5....she needs to get out the math cubes and count out 4 and then 5 and add them together by counting. Eventually the repitition will allow her to memorize it and that is the beginning of doing math so as to build on the basic facts.

So, we have her do flash cards and have stopped with workbook until we master this and then we can go on. I was so worried about being behind, but how much further behind will we be if we go ahead and she does not understand it?! I think that Singapore is good, but you may need to either find some ways to reinforce what is being taught. If you cover it in Singapore, then you have done most of what you need but that is not to say they won't need more practice. There is great resource at World Book Encyclopedia that lists what each grade should in general cover....so if Singapore does not cover counting money and you think it is necessary for 1st grade (for example)...then play store with play money. I try so hard to follow the syllabus/TM but always get off track, probably missing half of what Carrie has written. This makes me discouraged but on the other hand, it speaks to her selections and HOD's flexability.

I have chosen a handwriting method not offered and it is going well. I have not done as much science as I should from the book, but we have discussed other pertinent topics and when the kids asked about digestion I explained it in simple terms the way I learned it in Anatomy & Physiology in nursing school. So, sometimes life directs what you learn about and I guess that is the beauty of HS.

Take it from me, there is no perfect curriculum.....but it does take figuring out where your obstacles are and how to overcome them. I hope this helps some.

[Carrie]

Tammy,

I just wanted to mention that if you're doing Earlybird 2A/2B with LHTH and you own LHFHG, you will want to use the hands-on activities within LHFGH that go along with Earlybird 2A/2B. These make a huge difference in how well your child will understand the Singapore math and will also give you the needed hands-on activities that you were describing. It is a huge help to have the hands-on lessons.

As far as the 1A/1B goes, you'd need the Beyond guide to have the hands-on lessons for those if you desired to have them. They really do help cement the concepts if you have a hands-on learner. It's also a good idea to follow the pace we have set up in the Teacher's Guide for the short, bite-sized lessons so your kiddos don't go too fast through the Singapore workbooks and miss cementing the concepts.

In Singapore 1A/1B if you don't get the Beyond guide for the hands-on lessons, it will be important for you to use manipulatives so your little honey can "see" the concepts and "manipulate" them. So, instead of thinking your little sweetie needs to master her facts in 1st grade, you'd instead see 16 + 3 as a chance to lay out 16 bears or blocks and then add 3 more, counting on from 16 on up to 19 to get the answer. There's no need to memorize the facts in first grade in order to understand the process. The facts will come much easier if you wait until your little honey is in second grade or even third grade, as it will make more sense then.

I applaud your diligence in monitoring what your little sweetie is taking in math-wise. It helps me when assessing progress to think of the early years of math as an exploration and an introduction, with the mastery of the material coming later. We want to get kiddos thinking mathematically and learning how math is used all around us. The getting the right answer is only one part of math, and you can expect your kiddos to be making mistakes when they're first learning about something. Most teachers in school do not grade kiddos assignments when a new concept has been introduced. The kiddos need time to explore it and to grasp it first. Often that new concept may go in and out of their mind several times within the next few years, and at first they may not seem like they remember it. But, each time they revisit it through the years they get a little more secure in their understanding and file away a little more about it. Think of math as a process that takes time to mature into understanding and applying.

Singapore is complete in its scope and sequence and does cover all areas from money to measurements to patterning to time to the calendar to everything in between. So, there's no need to worry that it won't be covered. Don't get discouraged!! Slow, steady bite-sized pacing will reap big rewards over time. Each year you'll get a little more steady in your routine and a little more confident in your teaching. When you're not sure about something, ask the sweet ladies on this board. They will always be glad to help!!

Blessings,
Carrie

[moedertje]

Carrie,

Jumping in on this, am I understanding that the drill is not as important until 2nd or 3rd grade? I have not done any drill yet and I am on unit 6 in BLHFHG, using 1A/1B. I was planning on doing drill for addition facts as I we just jumped into learning subtraction now. He knows most of his addition facts just by having done the work in the books and the Math Expl. The visuals have been great to understand addition and now the subtraction...