If I could only do one....

[Mom2Monkeys]

...which would I do??? Hmmm...I need HELP! I'm not sure we will be able to financially handle betting Bigger and LHFHG in the fall. I'm also ashamed to admit that even as doable as it is to do 2 programs, I'm having a hard time getting both Beyond and LHTH (w/phonics) done. Usually we get most of Beyond, but our storytime is lacking some and poor ds5 is not getting much attention with LHTH. If I HAD to combine them, what would you recommend? I'll give as much info as I can about them so you can all help me think this thorough!
I have DS2 that is a train wreck, he'll be almost 3 in the fall-- I hope to door LHTH with him then (every other day probably). DS5 will be a K'er and turns 6 is December. DD7 will be 8.5 then and 3rd grade. DS5 is already doing phonics and starting to read CVC words and is pretty math minded, can't sit through read alouds or history in Beyond w/sister, and can barely tell me anything back just from the short reads in LHTH even if I let him look at the picture and discuss is before hand...he has improved though! We're using Phonics Pathways, but I want to move to the McGuffy readers. DD7 will be start SM 3A a little while after we start in the fall, R&S English 3, and DITHOR 3. She's an advanced reader, can write in cursive (though not neatly) and has stronger written narration skills than oral, as well as better narration after her own reading than after hearing a reading. She devours books and can tell me EVERY detail about them and has a hard time narrowing it down to main points. She's really ready for Bigger's dictation (I think about midway through is where she could start), but we're doing list 2 for spelling in Beyond. She loves independent work and even likes to teach LHTH and phonics to ds5. Instead of poetry for copywork, we are using Quotes With Character and G. Washington's "Rules of Civility" which I plan to continue...I'd also like to slowly move through the McGuffy readers with her.
DD7 is on the right path to finish the last of the new guides right on track in 8th grade, ready to begin high school with MFW, or HOD if Carrie goes on to high school. I'm not sure if I should let my ds5 get what he can out of dd7's studies and just add the right side of LHFHG for him...or try to beef up LHFHG for dd7 and let her do the right side of bigger or preparing (since she'll be in R&S 3/SM 3). My preference would be to let dd7 join ds5 and just beef it up somehow (HOW?!) but I don't want her to miss out on moving to independence since she is ready for that. I also don't know how the later guides will fit for 9th and 10th grades which is where she'd be if we did this route. I don't want ds5 to miss out on all the wonderful read alouds and activities, etc. all on his level.

I SO NEED YOUR HELP! LOL Can you help me think this through?

[inHistiming]

I don't know how much help I can be but I'll try anyway.

In my opinion, I would leave dd where she is, especially if she is advanced. I wouldn't move her back down to LHFHG after completing Beyond...I'd move on to Bigger...I think you could let your ds tag along with dd if you like...he will still learn. The science experiments may be over his head, but you never know. And he probably would not be ready for the writing involved. My ds 5 though loves to get in on the science experiments and explorations that we do, even if he may not understand it all. He usually has his own cute explanation for what happened or why, and I think as he grows he will understand more. He picks up what he can...and I'm not even purposely having him go along with us, he just sits and listens sometimes. He has LHTH with phonics, math, and handwriting...that we also do not always get to. Something I just thought of is this: Could you wait until evening when dh is home to do LHTH? It only takes about 30 minutes, maybe you could have dh play with your dd while you work with ds. I may try this. We have been hit or miss with ds 5 and though he is not compulsory age yet we had intended for this to be his K year...and do 1st next year. If we don't get through this manual we will not be ready for that. Anyway, just a thought. Hopefully some more experienced ladies will come along and offer some better advice. I hope I was at least a little bit helpful.

As for your ds that will be turning 3...maybe you could find some activities he could do that he only does during school time, and rotate them each day. Maybe coloring, dry-erase markers on a white board, magnetic letters on the fridge or a magnetic board, chalk and chalkboard, cars, chunky legos, play dough, sorting toys or buttons (large) by color, size, type, etc. He could also play 'concentration' and match color or alphabet cards, you could make flash cards with numbers and number words on them, maybe find some books on CD that he could listen to while 'reading along' in the book. Just a few things that I've tried with my youngest ds in the past and will be using again with the baby as she grows. It is challenging keeping the interruptions to a minimum...I'm sure others will have great suggestions for this ds too.

[Kathleen]

I agree with inHistiming that moving your dd down to LHFHG doesn't sound like the best option. I think that may end up frustrating for both of you. What I'm wondering is if you could swing the economy package for both programs. I know that Carrie purposely writes the guides so that they can function with a minimum number of resources for tight budgets. If you could swing the economy package for Bigger - and you already have R&S 3 and SM for her - you'd have a LOT of the day covered. If more finances came available by then and you could get the science books, that's what I'd go for next. You should be able to find storytime books and DITHOR books at a library which would save a lot. I'd do the same with LHFHG for your ds. Go for the economy package and see if any more $ becomes available to add the rest.

I don't know if it's encouraging or not, but this should be the only year you have to buy 2 programs. Next year you'll already have Beyond and need Preparing. I have 2 years like this coming...this fall I'll need Preparing and LHFHG, and the next year Beyond and Hearts for Him Through Time:Creation to Christ.

Kathleen

[Mom2Monkeys]

These are good suggestions ladies! Thanks! I look forward to more as well.

DH isn't really home much right now...he's a full time student and is sometimes gone from before sun up til after the kids are in bed. When he IS home, ALL the kids want to be with him. DS2 is not much of one to do activities without my constant supervision...he eats everything or rips it, bites it apart, etc. He is so different than my other two. Although, I have a playroom with gates to keep him in, so he's not so much of the problem in getting school done. He's just part of it. It tends to be keeping the house up, schooling, etc. and still finding time for myself...which I dont' ever manage to do. I'm always so tired (I don't sleep well) and don't have much of a support system....I did just join a homeschool group that I'm enjoying, but it takes time out of my days as well. Once I get off schedule (if you can call it that), I have a hard time getting back on. I'm just having trouble getting it all done. DH likes a very clean home and I'm always working like crazy to try to get it up to par...

So anyway...can the programs work well without the science books? And I'd have to get the book packs b/c I don't always have access to the library..honestly, some movies that are $1 day late fee were taken back very late adn we have almost $50 in late fees...I have no check out privileges and dh has already said he prefers that we not depend on the library for our books.

I feel overwhelmed most of the time, even on days we don't do school. I've gotten into a long-term slump and I just feel I need to plan a lighter load for next year somehow. I really feel I need to combine, but I really want to meet the needs of each of my kids.

[Mommamo]

I completely understand about feeling worn out and like you can't add anything else to your day. Bless your heart. You have 3 kiddos, are trying to do school, and trying to meet your husband's needs for a clean house. No wonder you feel stressed out!

One thing that's helping me is using Motivated Moms to help with my chores. That has really helped me to organize my day. It is really helping me to keep up with the chores and not always feel stressed out. Also, you might want to have a heart to heart with your husband and explain how you're feeling. Maybe if you told him how you're feeling then maybe he'd help you some with the house when he can or maybe he'd overlook some things when he knows you're having a harder day. I mean this with all respect to your husband of course, but I've found that sometimes, especially with housework, I've found that certain things that I think bother him don't really bother him, and it just helps to talk to him about it.

And about your actual question-Have you considered doing the programs half speed, at least for a while? That might help make doing 2 programs actually possible and even easy for you. Also, I know it helps me to do school while my newly 3-year old is sleeping. Maybe you could do part of school during nap time if your 2 year old still naps?

I really feel for you though. Try to remember that this is just a season and things won't always be this hectic.

[netpea]

Another way to economize is to look for books at yard sales, used book stores, and even resale shops like Salvation Army and Goodwill. I found alot of the emerging readers and storytime books that way. I typed up a list of all the readers and storytime book options for my kid's fall programs, then I started hunting the yard sales in April and kept it up through July. In August, I ordered the books I couldn't find. Some of my books are love-worn but they are readable and you can't beat a yard sale price of $0.25.

Just a thought, maybe it helps.

[Jessi]

I like the idea of doing two programs at 1/2 speed. This time is crucial for your 5 year old to get the attention he needs and deserves while not holding back your already advanced daughter....ok, I'll just throw this out there: If your daughter can read really well (and assuming the 5 yo and dd get along well) why don't you let her teach her brother from LHTH right now. You'd be surprised how she could do most of it herself and it could be good bonding time with you overseeing and assisting when necessary. That might free up more time for you to get some cleaning done while still keeping an eye on everything.

For next year, your son needs LHFHG but perhaps at 1/2 speed. We are doing that with my daughter right now and it doesn't take more than 1/2 hour or so every day (plus we are only doing a four day week). That will mean it isn't more of a time commitment than LHTH is every day.

For your daughter, I'd say move her into Bigger. I know money is tight for you but perhaps this can be a time to get creative. What do you have that you could sell for a little extra cash?

Oh and for the chores thing- does your daughter help at all with the cleaning? She is more than old enough to handle some jobs that would help you out too.

[Mom2Monkeys]

I am enjoying the suggestions! You ladies are great

I do have the Motivated Moms chore planner and LOVE it! DH peeks at it each day and can see I've been busy...I do feel a little trapped by it after he told me that even though I've been doing it for a couple weeks now, he hasn't seen me get it all checked even one day yet...and he'd like that to be my goal everyday. So, you can see that cleanliness is an absolute at my house! He did provide for a little freedom when he said that he'd be happy if I only did just what's on the list each day.

DD7 and DS5 both have their own chores. DD7 makes all the beds in the house, both help with laundry, (I also have a daily laundry schedule) and I can give some of the chores from the list to them sometimes. I'm sure things with DH will calm down some once he isn't in school full time anymore...it's a stressful life for him and he just wants a peaceful home.

DD7 LOVES to teach LHTH to the boys. DD5 is so eager to learn to read though and I never seem to get to his phonics lesson...she has done it with him once and I'm not sure she's ready for teaching that. But, I guess I could let her do his math lesson...he's very into math and is doing Horizons K very slowly.

I do have some curriculum I could sell to get the money but I can't seem to get it sold! It's all brand new (we switch curriculum twice this year until we found HOD). I sold much of it, but I still have a lot left...people think they should get it for pennies just b/c it's been in my house even though some is still in plastic wrap!

I'm leading DD7 to more independent work in Beyond so maybe she can take charge of more of Bigger when we get there. She does her own history readings, begins copywork, etc. before I get to her. I've got a list for her labeled Independent, Semi-Ind., and W/Mommy...she is loving this! Then I got a notebook and list each subject under the Ind/SI/Mom section with M___ T_____.....F___. Then she checks off as she does them.

Gotta run! I am feeling so encouraged with your advice. Thanks so much!

[Mommamo]

Another thing about finances-what if you just bought the books as you need them, instead of all at once? That might help you too. Just buying the minimum of what you need every nine weeks or so instead of all at once might help you out some. Good luck getting everything sold. I know that can be tough.

[Mom2Monkeys]

Okay...I'm not thinking with the norm here, and it might be a little crazy, but just might give us what I'm looking for.I'm just going to think outloud here...
I need something that takes less of my time in this season of life, allows for independence for DD7, and has everything in one guide (not mixing left side of one, right of another). So, anyway....DD will be in 3rd grade next year and like I said, will begin Singapore 3A and R&S 3 in the fall. I'm thinking I may let her start Preparing in the fall at a slower pace...we could do it half speed (one page per day) or I could do 2-3 days week of full lessons with 4 days per week of math lessons and have the 5th day for our extras like Latin. After looking at the placement chart, if we were just starting HOD this coming fall, I'd start her in Preparing. The structure and the format of the guide would allow her to be more independent and keep us in one guide for all her subjects. Plus she would love the history. Financially, it would help us b/c the curriculum would last longer (up to two years) and she'd still be on track to finish HOD new guide #4 in 8th grade...where as if I got "behind" in Bigger, it would take her off track and I'd feel stressed. I'll do LHFHG with ds5 at half-pace and probably move up to full speed after we get our groove if he shows he's ready. DS2 (will be DS3 then) can have LHTH time with mom and/or DD7. I'm also going to be more routine about letting DD7 do LHTH with DS5 now.

She really needs some help with her communication/speaking/social skills and I think between doing the narration in HOD and this schedule allowing me more time to work with her in something like the McGuffey Readers and Conversation With Character, she'll be able to really improve upon those skills. This schedule will also allow her the time to do the foreign language that she and I enjoy doing together. Latin this year then on to German (I think!). I generally don't have time for the extras my kids want, and barely have time for all the have-to's, but I think doing Preparing this way would make that more time friendly for us at this point in our lives.

Hopefully, things will have calmed down once my other children get to this point and we can just move at a good steady pace through EACH book. It looks like we're possibly going to be moving to a new, bigger city in the coming months for dh's schooling-- so this schedule would also allow us more time to take advantage of the new things we'll have to do if we do move...field trips! YAY! LOL

I still want feedback though! Especially Carrie and Julie.

[Mommamo]

I'm not Carrie or Julie , but it sounds like a great idea to me! As long as your dd fits on the placement chart with the skills in preparing, it sounds like it would be a good match. That would also meet your needs to get everything done, still keep you on track, etc. I think doing both programs at half speed sounds very doable and will help you get through this time that sounds so rough right now. I really like the idea of having your oldest do LHTH with your younger. What sweet memories those too will have! Also, it will help the oldest feel so resposnsible, I'm sure. I'll have to remember that with my oldest and youngest when they are a little older! It's a great idea.

[my3sons]

Hi Tamara! I've been reading these ideas and thinking and praying... and thinking and praying... and thinking and praying. The moms here are so awesome, aren't they?!? I keep coming back to the same thing - I think PHFHG is going to be too much of a jump - I would do BHFHG - maybe just do it 4 days because then you would have the 5th. day off, and take a bit longer to go through it. I still think you should do LHFHG, but you could do it at half-speed. Don't worry about the 3 yo just yet - other than maybe trying some of the wonderful ideas inHistiming and others gave for little ones. I really do think that is the best plan for your dc, hon'! I would start with BHFHG, and have your whole focus be on teaching your oldest dd to be as independent with that as possible. Teach her to use the guide and check off what she has finished. She could probably read the history on her own if need be too. You choose which parts you really want to teach and stick with those, but my ds grew to be able to use the BHFHG on his own for a good portion of the time last year. Those oldest dc generally like that independence - though I told him there were just some things I wouldn't give up! While you are teaching her BHFHG, do a few boxes each day from LHTH with your 5 yo ds, just to give him his mommy time. Check those off too, and try to do a page every few days.

After you've taught your oldest to do BHFHG (after maybe 2-4 weeks), I would next order LHFHG to do with ds. That is not such an expensive program, and if you wait a month you can budget the 2 out, sell something, etc. Even just starting it with the economy package would be good - you can always order the rest in subsequent months. Then, go half-speed with LHFHG, doing left side one day, and right side the next day. I would not do anything but love on your little 3 yo until he's grown up more. With this plan, you would be able to keep your oldest dd more independent (which she will not be able to do as well now with PHFHG because it is much harder), you will only need to order 1 program the next several years (because your ds will do LHFHG for 2 years, and then you'll already have Beyond for him the next year, and little baby will have LHTH already too).

Whew - well hon', I'm praying for you, but I do really feel in my heart that this would be the best fit for you, and the least amount of stress on you my dear too!!! Hugs headed your way here!

In Christ,
Julie

[Mom2Monkeys]

Thanks for input on this Julie! So it's really that big of a jump even if she'll be 8, strong reader, and using the Math and Language Arts from Preparing?

My points to ponder would be the fact that we'd be using two different guides for her making it more difficult to keep her flowing smoothly in her independence. My feelings of getting behind since there's no cushion time-wise by going with Bigger and I'd have to do it at least 4 days a week and go into the summer in order to stay on track. Compared to Preparing where I could get away with 3 days or even 2 days (just doing math all 4 days of plans). I'd have less of a chance for our add-ons my kids have chosen which we try to do twice weekly. And I forgot that 1 day per week DD goes to gr'ma's house for "home ec" leaving me with only 4 days and no 5th day! 3 days school, and the 4th day as math and extras would be nice. I don't know what to do! LOL I could get two years out of LHFHG and Preparing if I did my idea but I'm worried about what you said about it being too hard. She LOVES studying other countries and the thought of doing that in Preparing for two years is nice for her.

I'll be thinking and praying and re-reading your advice over and over!

[Kathleen]

Tamara,

I haven't used Preparing yet, so I'm not going to try to compare those for you. But, I just thought you might want to know that Singapore 3A and 3B are scheduled in Bigger for you, so your little gal wouldn't have to have the Preparing guide for those. And, I know that at least one mom this year is using Bigger and having her child do a lesson a day for the R&S 3. I know my own little guy does English on his own and just picks up the book and does the next lesson (he doesn't even open the guide!) even thought we're in R&S 2.

One other thought...I don't know if you're schedule will be different next year or not, but I know that Carrie said that she's doing Preparing 5 days a week rather than 4 to get done this year. So, you could always change your pace in the years to come, knowing that you're making the best decision NOW for your family. I know that the Lord will give you direction on this knowing the BEST plan for your family!!

Kathleen

[Alison in KY]

Mom2Monkeys, I just wanted to encourage you to relax. There really isn't a wrong answer here, IMHO. Okay, so I am really not that knowledgeable in HOD, yet, but I do have a few years of homeschooling under my belt and with the same number of kids..and the same house struggles. Mine are 9,7,and 5 (they'll all be moving up a year in a few months) but I combined all of mine into Beyond (with my 9 yr olds own math and LA, plus an abeka history to beef up the HOD history)..because I know me and if I didn't combine them then I just wouldn't ever get school done. That's the way I am. And honestly, even though I've combined them it probably won't be smooth sailing...I occasionally have to just stop school and have a day to dig out from under everything...aka...mop the floors that never get mopped, clean up bathrooms, etc.

So if you're looking at two programs now thinking no way, then just go with the one for your oldest...your middle isn't even required to be in kindergarten...even if all the other homeschool 5 year olds are. My youngest, who is 5, joins us for a few workbooks when she's ready..and it's not tough stuff, it's very light (and she's a smart little cookie to, but not so smart she can do it on her own). Some days I don't ask her to do anything. I'm not a strict workbook person at all...I don't really like them...but when it comes down to no school or a workbook I'd opt for a simple workbook. I'm afraid other more organized crafty mom's will not like this, but I'm just telling it how it's worked out for me.

Sounds like your oldest is doing awesome and it sounds like you are stretched a bit thin. There will be a time when things fall into place, then after a month or so it cycles into something different. At least it happens like that in my house, and I think it's just because there are those roadblocks, hormones, etc that our little ones are experiencing...so think ahead and plan according to what you can handle. There is nothing wrong with your 5 yr old being along for the ride, you just have to stop sometimes and snuggle and sit with them and a book that they can sit through. It sounds like your 5 yr old enjoys the basics, well good, that's the key stuff at this age anyway...all I ever do is basics (that's why I purchased HOD, to do more than basics, but my oldest will be 10 soon).

So, maybe you could do the phonics work first thing with your 5 yr old, then math, while your daughter is doing a reading assignment, then it's your daughter's time. IF your 5 yr old wants to hear a story then great, if they want to wreck cars in the floor while your reading, then that's great too. You can also use something like starfall or studydog to help with phonics work while your working with your daughter...all the while the littlest monkey is running around. If your 5 yr old isn't ready to listen to a story then that's okay...it's a boy, right? My 5 yr old boy didn't know his alphabet sounds at that age...but he didn't want to know them. He could have cared less about that stuff...that's when I started using Leapfrog talking letter factory dvd's...that is how he learned his letter sounds and I called it school. YOu could actually get away with 30-45 minutes of work on math and phonics with your 5 yr old, then have all moring to work with your daughter. I don't thinkyour 5 yr old is ready for more than that...and that' s normal, at least with my 3 kids it has been.

Oh, and lastly, do that storytime read aloud during lunch time...everyone is busy and they can listen to the story. Pick the shorter read alouds, to help you with time, and to help your youngers.

I hope I helped and this made sense, I'm typing this all pretty quickly.

Alison in KY