Math to be used in Ancients...and later

[inHistiming]

I am sorry....I am pretty sure this has been discussed already, but a search did not turn up anything that will answer my question.

I am wondering what math HOD will recommend for the later guides...I thought we were to go through level 6...but now think I am mistaken. How far will HOD go with Singapore, and what will be suggested after the recomended Singapore levels are covered? I know up to level 4b is available on the web site now, but there is no other since the new guide won't be up 'til after the new year. Any help is appreciated...if anyone knows where a link to a previous discussion about this is please post it. Thanks!

[marypoppins]

Edit: I decided to delete my post, and let Carrie's response speak for itself. I got way ahead of her talking about high school which ended up kind of hijacking the original poster's thread. Sorry, InHisTiming

[inHistiming]

Thanks for the response. One of the reasons I was asking is because I anticipate my ds beginning school in the fall with Singapore 5a, and I didn't want to start with that if Carrie is recommending something else. I know it's a ways off, but I always begin planning the new year around this time....it takes me a while, and with the new baby coming in the spring I need to get my ducks in a row! We have to submit our plan to the district by July 1st each year, hence my planning ahead.

ETA: I just found the most recent post about this...here is the link:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2500

Scroll down and it's within Carrie's response.

I knew I had read about this very recently....I did a new search using Teaching Textbooks and was able to find it!

[marypoppins]

Also, I just e-mailed TT asking whether or not they will be completing the series with a Calculus course, and they e-mailed back less than an hour later saying that, yes, they are working on a Calculus course, but it won't be out for a couple more years. Yeah!! I have no fear about using this program and following it through to the end. It feels like a HUGE weight has been lifted off my shoulders now that I know at least MATH will be covered through HS!! Whew!

[Carrie]

I'm going to leave my original response here, but I am also going to add an update to this thread, as we are now waiting to make this math recommendation.

inHIsTiming,

We actually know what our recommendation will be in this area now, so I can gladly share it with you! In the new ancients guide, we will include a schedule for Singapore 4A/4B for those who need to back up in Singapore when coming from another program. For students beyond Singapore 4A/4B, we will give a choice of doing Singapore 5A/5B or Teaching Textbooka 6. If kiddos are at the Singapore 6A/6B level (having completed 5A/5B or its equivalent in a different math program), we will most likely be recommending only Teaching Textbooks 7. We may not be carrying Singapore 6A/6B, due to its use of the rods system as opposed to the 'x' and 'y' system used in algebra in the U.S.

If moms aren't sure which level of either Singapore or Teaching Textbooks to use, kiddos can take a placement test at both sites to help them with placement. If kiddos struggle with math or are average in math, we will recommend using Teaching Textbooks on grade level. If kiddos are advanced in math, we will recommend using one grade level ahead of Teaching Textbooks. Some moms have jumped their kiddos up even further than that with Teaching Textbooks, but we don't find it beneficial to rush ahead that far, and won't be recommending that route. We do feel that the elementary years spent interacting with the parent while doing Singapore Math does a great job of setting a strong foundation in abstract thinking, mental math, and difficult problem-solving.

We have read about and researched Teaching Textbooks, as well as using it within our own family, and are quite comfortable recommending it for the middle school years. We have found the coverage to be thorough and the real-life explanations to be well-done. Our oldest son has completed TT6 and is half-way through 7, enjoying it thoroughly so far. We are looking forward to most likely offering this math program for the middle school math years.

Blessings,
Carrie

[inHistiming]

Okay, great...one more question, though (of course). My oldest ds will have only had 1 year in Singapore when we get to the new school year in the fall. Would you recommend spending another year in Singapore, doing 5A and 5B, or going ahead and making the switch to TT then? Do you think he might need the additional year in Singapore to develop that strong foundation you spoke about? He does well in math, but I would not say he is advanced; maybe I'll have my math whiz husband evaluate that.

[Carrie]

marypoppins,

Most states require Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and then a higher level of math (either Pre-Calc or Calculus) for the distinguished track high school graduation requirements. The distinguished track is for college bound students. So, at HOD we will be setting up our middle school requirements to have the child on track into high school to meet the distinguished track requirements.

Teaching Textbooks goes from TT7 to TT Pre-Algebra and then to TT Algebra I. When weighing whether to do TT Algebra I in grade 8, we will be recommending that parents check their state laws to see whether Algebra I must be taken in high school. In our state, South Dakota, we cannot count Algebra I on our high school transcript if it is taken in grade 8 (without special permisson), and we must show Algebra I on our high school transcript for graduation, so we have chosen to follow the on grade-level route with TT for our son to meet those requirements. He will take Algebra I as a freshman. He will get through Pre-Calc rather than Calc by doing that route (which is fine for us as it is still considered a higher level math course). If he were a very math oriented child, we may have requested special permission to do Algebra I in grade 8.

You can easily check your state high school requirements by looking online at your state education website.

Blessings,
Carrie

[marypoppins]

[quote="Carrie"]marypoppins,

Most states require Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II, and then a higher level of math (either Pre-Calc or Calculus) for the distinguished track high school graduation requirements. The distinguished track is for college bound students. So, at HOD we will be setting up our middle school requirements to have the child on track into high school to meet the distinguished track requirements.

Teaching Textbooks goes from TT7 to TT Pre-Algebra and then to TT Algebra I. When weighing whether to do TT Algebra I in grade 8, we will be recommending parents check with their state laws to see whether Algebra I must be taken in high school. In our state, South Dakota, we cannot count Algebra I on our high school transcript if it is taken in grade 8 (without special permisson), and we must show Algebra I on our high school transcript for graduation, so we have chosent follow the on grade-level route with TT for our son, so he will take Algebra I as a freshman. He will get through Pre-Calc rather than Calc by doing that route.

You can easily check your state high school requirements by looking online at your state education website.

Blessings,
Carrie[/quote]


Thanks for mentioning that, Carrie! I was assuming it was just going to be the same as when I was in high school. I took Alg. in 8th, Geom. in 9th, Alg. II in 10th, Trig. in 11th. Then for 12th grade, I actually took half my classes at the local university and started over at that point with College Algebra followed by Business Calc. I never knew that some states had the requirement that you mentioned. I'll have to look into that for sure.

I guess I don't understand why the "distinguished track" would be set up that way. It seems like it would actually hold some students back...

[marypoppins]

I just looked up our state's graduation requirements, and it is actually pretty generic. Students only need to have "3 credits" of math. So that's pretty simple. But you brought up such a good point, Carrie, because obviously not all states requirements are the same.

[Carrie]

marypoppins,

The distinguished track for any state requires 4 units/years of math, one of which MUST be a higher level math course (Pre-Calc. or Calc. most standardly, some may count trig.).

Many, many students do take Algebra 1 in 8th grade (to be on a more advanced track) but some states (such as ours) require permission to do so in order to fulfill our state requirement to have Algebra I on the high school transcript. High schools/colleges do not allow coursework completed in grade 8 to be on the high school transcript. So, you can see why the special permission in our state would be required to list Algebra I as being covered (to fulfill state requirements) even though it was taken in grade 8.

For students wishing to complete Calc. by graduation, Algebra 1 would need to be taken in grade 8.

Clear as mud?

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

inHisTiming,

You could really go either way with Singapore 5A/5B or TT6. It is really more a matter of personal preference. If kiddos struggle with math,then 5A/5B can be quite a challenge for both parent and child. If the child is doing well with math then 5A/5B should be fine. It may just take more of you to work through it with him.

I also try to weigh how much time I'll have available to teach math. If your time will be pretty tight, you may wish to use TT6 to shift math toward more independence.

If your hubby is a math-wiz, I'd go with his recommendation.

Blessings,
Carrie

[inHistiming]

Well, with a new baby in the house by then, it might be best to try to shift more towards independence. The TT site looks good...we'll have to weigh our options. I'll have hubby check it out so he can give his opinion. He is an engineer, so has taken many of the higher math courses. I'm sure he'll be able to tell which would be better for ds, who thinks much like dh. Thank you for all the help.

[Carrie]

Ladies,

I wanted to post an update to let you know that we are going to be waiting on the decision of whether to recommend Teaching Textbooks for math instruction in the future. If you've read the board previously, we had put forth a probable plan of recommending TT 6 as an alternate for Singapore Math 5A/5B and had also discussed plans for moving into TT7 instead of Singapore 6A/6B.

Since our oldest son is currently using TT7, and had also used TT6 last year, we were feeling pretty comfortable with that direction. I must admit that as the year is progressing, we are finding the sections on multiplication and division of fractions are utilizing some "new math" type strategies with factoring that cloud the logic of the actual problem-solving quite a bit. When I was heading out of my years of teaching in the public school, the "new math" craze had just come on the scene, resulting in many kiddos who no longer understood math, and even more parents who could no longer help their children with doing math in this "new way". So, with TT we are beginning to wonder if teaching math in this "certain" way may handicap the child in future math study. It is too early to tell right now, but we definitely wish to research this further.

We've also found that within the scope and sequence of TT, some key concepts are left until the very end of the course to be taught. This could possibly cause students to not be well-prepared for standardized testing until they have completed the course. We had our own experience with this last year, when my oldest son had only one week left to go in his TT6 and was taking the standardized tests that same week. He missed 4 problems on his standardized test in math on a concept that came up the day after he took the standardized (in the final 4 lessons of TT). So at this point we feel that we need another year to even more fully evaluate future math recommendations.

In our upcoming guide we will be recommending Singapore Math through 5A/5B, as previously discussed on the board. However, we will not be giving the option of using TT6 as an alternate option for Singapore 5A/5B in the upcoming guide. We deeply desire for our middle school math recommendations to provide students with a strong foundation for upcoming high school math courses and want to make sure that we are preparing kiddos to that end.

Blessings,
Carrie