heartofdakota.com

I will have a 3rd grader and 6th grader next year. Would you combine them using the extensions or use a separate program? I will also have a dd in K next year (I am seriously considering LHFHG with her). I know the K child will do a complete separate program but what about the other two?
If you were to combine the older two would you use Bigger (which would be on my "to be" 3rd grader's level) and just use the extension packs for the 6th grader or use PHFHG or the new one that is about to be published this summer and just water it down for the 3rd grader? Would BHFHG with the extensions be challenging enough for the 6th grader? Thanks!

playschool,

If you haven't already had a chance to check out the placement chart, then that is a great place to begin. Here is a link to the chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

Pay the most attention to those items on the first page of the chart, as they are the most important. After you've had a chance to check out the chart, I'd love to hear your thoughts!

Next, if you are wanting to combine your kiddos, we usually say that it is easier to teach to the younger age level and add an extension package for the older, than it is to pull a younger child along with an older child. So that would mean you'd most likely need to do Bigger Hearts or Preparing Hearts with an extension package for your older child.

If you don't mind sharing, if you could give us a little more information about your 3rd and 6th graders it would really help us advise you better between those two programs. How do both of your kiddos do as far as reading and copying goes? Also, how well do they listen to lengthier chapter books read aloud without pictures? How independent is your oldest student? What have your kiddos done in the past for history, science, and language arts?

Blessings,
Carrie

They currently are both using Abeka for Language Arts, Reading, and Math(with older child using Abeka also for Science and History as well). My currently 2nd grade ds could have really been in 3rd grade, but we kept him back to make sure he could handle Abeka's work. He is currently 8 and a half, will be 9 in March. He does pretty well listening to lengthy readings from chapter books although he always prefers to have picture books read to him as opposed to chapter books. He can read on a 2nd-3rd grade age level and can handle dictation up to about 2 sentences. Narration is a bit more difficult for him unless he is really into what I am reading than it is a cinch. ( It all depends on whether he wants to pay attention or not.) My currently 5th grade dd is doing well in Abeka but due too much of the busy work and lack of enjoyment I would like her to join us in something more non-traditional. She is extremely good at dictation, language arts, and spelling, and I am sure would not have any trouble with narration although she would include just too many details (she is very detail-oriented) that would actually drive you crazy. She also prefers to read books that are below her grade level feeling intimidated by some of the more lengthier books. She does have the ability to read on her age level and does well with Abeka Reading, but dislikes sight reading (she can do it, and there are times when I require her to sight read as opposed to reading aloud) and prefers to read aloud worrying that she will not get everything from the passage unless she does so. She does struggle a bit with writing, not in her mechanics, but in putting down her thoughts in a concise and descriptive way with some form of order to it. Realizing that her current Lang. arts program does not delve deeply (IMHO) enough into this area, we have just recently started Writing Strands Level 3 with her. My dd could technically be in 6th grade this year but due to her Sept. b-day was kept back a year. So next year we will embark on 6th grade. That is pretty much the lowdown on my 2 oldest kiddos. I would appreciate any input you might have now that you have that info. Thanks!

I forgot to mention that my 2nd grader uses MFW Adventures currently for History and sometimes Science. My husband has been using Apologia Astronomy with him for Science as well (with his pre-k sister tagging along). That's about it. Sorry my previous post was so long.

Carrie wrote: Next, if you are wanting to combine your kiddos, we usually say that it is easier to teach to the younger age level and add an extension package for the older, than it is to pull a younger child along with an older child. So that would mean you'd most likely need to do Bigger Hearts or Preparing Hearts with an extension package for your older child.

I would completely agree with this. I have tried it geared toward the older and geared toward the younger but beefed up. It is so much easier the way HOD does it. I do combine a 6th grader with three 4th graders but one of those has special needs and I would say she is more on the third grade level on actually doing things and second in reading. If I had the average third grader I would feel fine combining them with what we do. It works well for our family to combine. I would look at the older child and see if they are a little independent and would they do well to expect more of them even though they are using the same program. I think after checking the skills on the placement chart the next thing to think about is the dynamics of your family. My kids like to be together and are fine with doing the same thing on different expectation levels. My sixth grader needs close supervision and I see her as being that type for a while so it has worked well to have them all together. I think even if she were more independent it would also work for us. But it is something that I think after skills looking at family dynamics would be best. Hope there is something here that helps.

Hmmmm. I've been reading and rereading your post and pondering about this. Here are my thoughts so far:
1. Combine them both in BHFHG, doing the extensions for your older dd.
2. Combine them both for the left side only of BHFHG. Then do the right side of BHFHG with your younger, and the right side of PHFHG with your older. (The right side is the LA and Math skills.)
*With either of these options, your older dd could do DITHOR Level 4/5, and your younger could do DITHOR 2/3.

The pros to #1 are obvious, so I'll just make mention of my thoughts behind #2:
I think that BHFHG does such an excellent job preparing dc for the work in PHFHG. Many teacher-directed skills taught in BHFHG become independent skills in PHFHG. This allows dc to be more independent in those areas because they've had a year of guidance in them first. In the areas of vocabulary, oral narrations, notebooking, and lab experiment reports, it is incredibly helpful to have had that year of guidance in BHFHG. I do think your oldest dd sounds ready for the upper skills in LA and Math in PHFHG (which are on the right side of plans), but it would be very beneficial for her to have reinforcements of her growing skills in BHFHG in the areas I mentioned (which are on the left side of the plans).

Now, your dd may be ready for PHFHG by the time you would like to start. However, I still think your younger's best placement will still be BHFHG, and I agree with w2w, if you are going to combine - it is much easier to extend than it is to simplify. Hope some of that helps! Either way, you'll find a good fit with HOD - just pray and pray. And keep asking questions here until you feel set!

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. I taught LHFHG and BHFHG last year and had an awesome year!

I really appreciate all of your lengthy replies to my questions. I know that it is possible to do two separate programs with the older kids, but with a dd in K next year and her program that would equal 3 programs at one time along with a toddler running around. After pouring over the catalog, it does seem that my ds (2nd grade, now) would fit very well into Bigger and Preparing would be very difficult for him. My older dd is the one who I hope would be challenged enough in Bigger. I do not think making the switch to Singapore Math now would work out well for her. She is so used to Math taught in a more traditional way, although I do plan to possibly move her out of Abeka Math to Saxon, CLE, or Teaching Textbooks. I also had planned on possibly using Rod and Staff English with her next year. I am also trying to consolidate as much as possible. In light of that, could the extension package of books in Bigger be used for her Drawn Into the Heart of Reading literature. Also do you think the Science included in Bigger would be enough for a 6th grader or should I supplement? Would Rod and Staff English 3 be appropriate for my ds coming out of 2nd grade Abeka Language or do you think that he should start with R&S English 2? I know that I am thinking way ahead of time for next year so I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.

playschool wrote:My older dd is the one who I hope would be challenged enough in Bigger. I do not think making the switch to Singapore Math now would work out well for her. She is so used to Math taught in a more traditional way, although I do plan to possibly move her out of Abeka Math to Saxon, CLE, or Teaching Textbooks. I also had planned on possibly using Rod and Staff English with her next year. I am also trying to consolidate as much as possible. In light of that, could the extension package of books in Bigger be used for her Drawn Into the Heart of Reading literature. Also do you think the Science included in Bigger would be enough for a 6th grader or should I supplement? Would Rod and Staff English 3 be appropriate for my ds coming out of 2nd grade Abeka Language or do you think that he should start with R&S English 2? I know that I am thinking way ahead of time for next year so I appreciate your taking the time to answer my questions.

O.k. - so you're leaning toward combining the 2 of them in BHFHG - hooray! We are making great progress here, playschool! Your dd can easily do whatever math you want - just sub that in for the math box in the plans. We're on our second year of using R & S English, and I am impressed with the retention my ds has - definitely the best of what I've used over my years of teaching. We did R & S 2 last year, and are doing R & S 3 this year. I believe R & S is typically advanced, so maybe R & S 2? R & S 3 does diagramming, if that makes a difference. I'm thinking the Extension Package has such a great schedule with questions already planned out, that I don't know if you'll want to add DITHOR's plans to those books. I wonder if you could just do DITHOR 3 days a week, and only do maybe 4-5 genres in the year? That is what we do, and you'd only need 4-5 books for her to read. You could just use whatever you have on hand that you wanted her to read anyway, and put those books in whatever genre they fit, and do just those genres. (Then, the following year you could do the other half of the genres.) On a side note, books like that make great stocking stuffers too. I'm interested what others will say about this too. As far as the science, that's covered in the extension pack, so I think you'd be alright there. Hope something here helped! I'm sure others will chime in here too!

In Christ,
Julie

playschool,

Sorry it's taken me a bit to get back to you! The ladies have been great about talking through your options with you!

I agree that Bigger Hearts is the best overall fit for both of your older kiddos, along with the extension pakcage. Both kiddos would do the left side of the plans in the Bigger guide, along with the storytime and science on the right side of the guide. Your younger one would do all of Bigger as written. For your older child, I also agree that you'd need a higher level of math, english, literature, dictation, and additional science beyond what is in Bigger.

The literature is easily solved by adding Drawn into the Heart of Reading Level 4/5. The extension pack books from Bigger won't work with DITHR (since they don't cover the various genres), so you'll need to choose your own books for that. We do have packages for Level 4/5 coming out after the first of the year, so you could always peek at those to give you some good ideas. You could use the package titles on the list as a help of what to get at your library to use with DITHR, or just order the books from our packages to have on hand. Any book truly works with DITHR.

As far as math goes, it sounds like you will be doing your own thing with that which will "up" the level of math. For English, depending on what your daughter has already had in her English study, you could most likely use Rod and Staff 4 as a good starting point (or Rod and Staff 5, if she's already had quite a bit of diagramming and overall grammar instruction). The goal with HOD is to go through Rod and Staff 6 by the time kiddos get through grade 8. This is due to Rod and Staff being so advanced overall.

While Rod and Staff does include some writing instruction, you would most likely want to add a higher level of writing by continuing with your Writing Strands (or by doing Igniting Your Writing Vol. 1, which is on our website).

For spelling/dictation, you can do your own thing, or you could use the passages found in the Appendix of Preparing Hearts. There are also posts on the board here on how to do dictation from the literature you're using for DITHR, rather than using the prepared passages found in Preparing Hearts. If you did choose to use the passages in Preparing Hearts, you could also make use of the Rod and Staff English 4 schedule and possibly consider following the science schedule found in Preparing (instead of the one in Bigger) to "up" the level of science for your older child. In that scenario, your younger one would still do the science in Bigger. Just something to ponder.

The science scheduled in the Extension Pack in Bigger will help add on higher level science content, but since your daughter will be a sixth grader, you'd most likely want to add additional science reading to Bigger either from library books or an elementary Apologia text once or twice a week for the year (or you could have her do the Preparing Hearts science instead of the Bigger science and that would cover science for her).

As far as your younger child goes, Rod and Staff 2 or 3 would work. English 3 begins diagramming, so if your child is ready for that, 3 would be a good fit.

I'd love to hear what you're thinking if you get a chance to pop back and respond!

Blessings,
Carrie

I think you're plan is coming together great, too!

I actually started a reply to you earlier...and then my husband had to take the computer over to the farm. I was just going to tell you that I did Abeka's LA workbook for 2nd grade last year with my ds and then started Bigger and Rod and Staff 2 this year and it's going great! It seems to be covering things much more systematically and thoroughly than what we did last year. We're enjoying it! (Remember to do most of it orally what ever level you choose. We also do the written part on a little white board rather than paper which my son seems to think is great! )

Kathleen