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Hi! I am new to HOD and have a son who will be going into fifth grade next year, and a daughter going into third. In the past I have taught math and language arts at their own levels and always combined them for our “family subjects” - Bible, History, Science, Read Alouds, etc. We have used a bit of Sonlight, My Father’s World, and similar curriculum in order to do this. We have kept our language arts skills separate from these content subjects, and have always read aloud in these areas, with the goal being exposure.

My son struggled to learn to read, and although he has made huge strides, he is still a slow reader and gets very overwhelmed at pages full of text with small writing. We never had him tested, but he exhibits many signs of dyslexia. Since his reading is finally coming along, we have worked more this year on spelling and writing (neglected in past years due to the time and effort spent to get him reading). He spells very phonetically, and has a long way to go. Copywork is difficult for him (he does best when copying immediately under where I’ve written for him, otherwise he often loses his place and makes mistakes). We have worked on the basics of writing a paragraph this year, and he’s doing well with it, and although his spelling, grammar, and mechanics are somewhat of a train wreck, he gets his thoughts out in a well organized and interesting way. We limit this writing to his language arts time, and he doesn’t write the rest of the day in the content subjects. He has been taught cursive, but it’s slow going for him, so he prefers print. He is an excellent listener, and has fantastic comprehension and an amazing ability to remember and learn things audibly.

My daughter is also having to work very hard to learn to read and shows may of the same signs my son did/does. We have used Logic of English and just recently switched over to the Sound Bytes Reading book, when she seemed to be getting bogged down in LOE with new phonograms coming too quickly and not enough practice with them before moving on. We have not done any spelling or writing other than copywork, which she does well with, because of our efforts spent on reading. She has been listening in on my reading to her brother from a very young age, and is also a great listener, with great comprehension and retention.

Using the placement chart, my son seems capable of doing Preparing, but the large increase in the amount of writing expected concerns me. I wonder if he wouldn’t have a more successful year in Bigger, being able to do it fully, and getting used to doing written work in the content subjects. We would use the extensions, me reading them aloud if need be. My daughter seems between Beyond and Bigger. I’m hoping to finish phonics with her over the summer and move her into the Emerging Readers for next year. I feel like Beyond might be an easier year for her, but that she could handle Bigger. Combining them in Bigger appeals to me, in that they want to learn together - they always have done so, and it works well for them (they are my only two).

Thoughts? Advice? I guess my main concern is my son getting “too far behind” in the guides, leaving him not completing the last two in high school. However, I’m afraid Preparing will completely overwhelm him given the amount of writing in it compared to what he’s used to. I’m also afraid of just getting him in over his head looking ahead into the guides, with the amount of reading and independent work they require. I guess I think perhaps my son in Preparing, going at half speed if/as needed may be best, with my daughter in Beyond. But then they can’t learn together, which they really enjoy and do well with, so would Bigger be a good compromise, him able to go full speed, add extensions, do DITHOR, perhaps reading science independently, and such, and her stepping up a bit?

flmama wrote:Hi! I am new to HOD and have a son who will be going into fifth grade next year, and a daughter going into third. In the past I have taught math and language arts at their own levels and always combined them for our “family subjects” - Bible, History, Science, Read Alouds, etc. We have used a bit of Sonlight, My Father’s World, and similar curriculum in order to do this. We have kept our language arts skills separate from these content subjects, and have always read aloud in these areas, with the goal being exposure.

My son struggled to learn to read, and although he has made huge strides, he is still a slow reader and gets very overwhelmed at pages full of text with small writing. We never had him tested, but he exhibits many signs of dyslexia. Since his reading is finally coming along, we have worked more this year on spelling and writing (neglected in past years due to the time and effort spent to get him reading). He spells very phonetically, and has a long way to go. Copywork is difficult for him (he does best when copying immediately under where I’ve written for him, otherwise he often loses his place and makes mistakes). We have worked on the basics of writing a paragraph this year, and he’s doing well with it, and although his spelling, grammar, and mechanics are somewhat of a train wreck, he gets his thoughts out in a well organized and interesting way. We limit this writing to his language arts time, and he doesn’t write the rest of the day in the content subjects. He has been taught cursive, but it’s slow going for him, so he prefers print. He is an excellent listener, and has fantastic comprehension and an amazing ability to remember and learn things audibly.

My daughter is also having to work very hard to learn to read and shows may of the same signs my son did/does. We have used Logic of English and just recently switched over to the Sound Bytes Reading book, when she seemed to be getting bogged down in LOE with new phonograms coming too quickly and not enough practice with them before moving on. We have not done any spelling or writing other than copywork, which she does well with, because of our efforts spent on reading. She has been listening in on my reading to her brother from a very young age, and is also a great listener, with great comprehension and retention.

Using the placement chart, my son seems capable of doing Preparing, but the large increase in the amount of writing expected concerns me. I wonder if he wouldn’t have a more successful year in Bigger, being able to do it fully, and getting used to doing written work in the content subjects. We would use the extensions, me reading them aloud if need be. My daughter seems between Beyond and Bigger. I’m hoping to finish phonics with her over the summer and move her into the Emerging Readers for next year. I feel like Beyond might be an easier year for her, but that she could handle Bigger. Combining them in Bigger appeals to me, in that they want to learn together - they always have done so, and it works well for them (they are my only two).

Thoughts? Advice? I guess my main concern is my son getting “too far behind” in the guides, leaving him not completing the last two in high school. However, I’m afraid Preparing will completely overwhelm him given the amount of writing in it compared to what he’s used to. I’m also afraid of just getting him in over his head looking ahead into the guides, with the amount of reading and independent work they require. I guess I think perhaps my son in Preparing, going at half speed if/as needed may be best, with my daughter in Beyond. But then they can’t learn together, which they really enjoy and do well with, so would Bigger be a good compromise, him able to go full speed, add extensions, do DITHOR, perhaps reading science independently, and such, and her stepping up a bit?

Welcome to the board, and thank you for sharing about each of your children! It sounds like both of your children are making good progress in reading and writing, and that is to be celebrated! Going forward, work does begin to be more independent, in keeping with Charlotte Mason's teaching methods, as well as in looking ahead to middle school and high school level work. You truly did an excellent job of sharing about each of your children here, but I do have a few more questions in order to help find the best placement. What are their current ages, and when do they turn their next age? What kind of books does your son read on his own (i.e.picture books, beginning chapter books, etc.)? How is Sound Bytes going for your daughter - do you foresee her being ready for the ERS in the fall with her current progress? How about writing for each of them? How many sentences can each write in one sitting without a lot of prompting (i.e. 1 sentence only as copywork, up to 3 sentences only as copywork, 1-3 sentences or more on own with you helping with editing at the end, etc.)? How large in size is their writing (i.e. does it fit on wide-lined notebook paper or is it still quite large in size)? Has your son had any formal literature programs (i.e. reading comprehension, genre study, story elements, etc.)? Do you think your son could read the science books in PHFHG and the Independent History Books in PHFHG on his own, or would you need to read those to him? Sorry for all of the questions, but we take placement seriously here at HOD, as we know when it's right you will have a fabulous year!

In Christ,
Julie

Hi Julie, thanks so much for your reply! Let me answer your questions...

My son is 10, turning 11 in June, and entering fifth grade next fall. He began school in public K, so I had held him back to give him a bit more time, but then he only made it 10 days before I pulled him out and began homeschooling (which we’ve done ever since). My daughter is 8, entering third grade next year and then turning 9 at Thanksgiving.

My son reads for a half hour per day, beginning chapter books, such as Encyclopedia Brown, The Boxcar Children, etc. He’s reading Wild Robot right now. He does a good job, sounds out words well and figures unknown words out from context, but it’s just lots of work and slow going for him.

Sound Bytes is going well with my daughter. It seems to give her more practice for each new phonogram she’s learning, which she needs. Much like my son, she seems to need to see the phonogram and it used in words many, many times before it starts to click. She reads the lesson’s story to me during school time, then again to my husband every night. I do think she’ll be ready to begin the ERs by fall. We’re on lesson 12-2 right now and plan to work through the summer.

My son can copy 3-5 sentences at a time, my daughter up to about 3. It is very tedious for him, easier for her, and he makes more errors. My son can write about 5 sentences on his own, but needs much help when done, editing for correct spelling and punctuation. My daughter doesn’t do much writing on her own, other than writing me sweet notes and lists of what she wants at the grocery store (a sentence or two, again, spelled very wrong but sounded out well so I can read it)! My son writes well on wide lined notebook paper, my daughter still uses the wider paper with the dotted middle line.

Neither child has any formal literature study, we’ve just done lots of reading aloud. Also, my son and I have discussed basic grammar as we go, but nothing structured. My daughter has had none.

I have one or two of the One Small Square Books, but I’m not familiar with the other books used in Preparing’s science and independent history... I think he is definitely capable of reading books at that level, what usually becomes an issue is his speed - he reads slowly, so it takes forever, and it tires him out (before he reads a large amount) because he works hard at it.

Think I answered everything...thanks so much for your help! Look forward to hearing your thoughts!

flmama wrote:Hi Julie, thanks so much for your reply! Let me answer your questions...

My son is 10, turning 11 in June, and entering fifth grade next fall. He began school in public K, so I had held him back to give him a bit more time, but then he only made it 10 days before I pulled him out and began homeschooling (which we’ve done ever since). My daughter is 8, entering third grade next year and then turning 9 at Thanksgiving.

My son reads for a half hour per day, beginning chapter books, such as Encyclopedia Brown, The Boxcar Children, etc. He’s reading Wild Robot right now. He does a good job, sounds out words well and figures unknown words out from context, but it’s just lots of work and slow going for him.

Sound Bytes is going well with my daughter. It seems to give her more practice for each new phonogram she’s learning, which she needs. Much like my son, she seems to need to see the phonogram and it used in words many, many times before it starts to click. She reads the lesson’s story to me during school time, then again to my husband every night. I do think she’ll be ready to begin the ERs by fall. We’re on lesson 12-2 right now and plan to work through the summer.

My son can copy 3-5 sentences at a time, my daughter up to about 3. It is very tedious for him, easier for her, and he makes more errors. My son can write about 5 sentences on his own, but needs much help when done, editing for correct spelling and punctuation. My daughter doesn’t do much writing on her own, other than writing me sweet notes and lists of what she wants at the grocery store (a sentence or two, again, spelled very wrong but sounded out well so I can read it)! My son writes well on wide lined notebook paper, my daughter still uses the wider paper with the dotted middle line.

Neither child has any formal literature study, we’ve just done lots of reading aloud. Also, my son and I have discussed basic grammar as we go, but nothing structured. My daughter has had none.

I have one or two of the One Small Square Books, but I’m not familiar with the other books used in Preparing’s science and independent history... I think he is definitely capable of reading books at that level, what usually becomes an issue is his speed - he reads slowly, so it takes forever, and it tires him out (before he reads a large amount) because he works hard at it.

Think I answered everything...thanks so much for your help! Look forward to hearing your thoughts!

Thank you so much for patiently answering all of my questions! I think your newly turned 8 yo daughter places very nicely in Beyond Little Hearts, and your son in Preparing Hearts. This is good news, as the two have each made such good progress and are placing in guides very befitting their age and maturity! Beyond Little Hearts... will have your daughter easing into copying 4 sentences a day and gradually shrinking her writing to fit on wide-lined notebook paper over the course of the year. It will have an introduction to grammar, the ERS with oral comprehension questions, and a choice of 2 spelling lists. Her day will be about 2 to 2 1/2 hours long, which fits her age nicely.

Your 10 1/2 year old son places quite nicely in Preparing Hearts. He will start guided written narrations at 1-3 sentences, with you first writing his oral answers to provided questions and him then copying the 1-3 sentence written narration. He will also be doing short creative writing lessons 1 x a week with the classical poetry in PHFHG, just starting with writing a few sentences with your help, and working up to writing a stanza, several stanzas, and short poems with your help near the end of the guide. This will be good, as he needs creative writing lessons for his age, but we don't want them to have too much writing for him. He can use R & S English 3 largely orally, which will introduce him to diagramming sentences, but which doesn't include writing lessons until the very end. I am most excited for him to read the Independent History books and the Science books on his own. They are very short readings, and they still have some pictures. This is a wonderful way to help him take on needed independence for his age without overwhelming him. Reading these on his own will also improve his writing, as seeing the words while reading oneself helps better commit the words to memory, which in turn produces more accurate writing and spelling. This is a better plan for him and for you, I think, as it is encouraging him to take on independence he is ready for, rather than you having to read aloud Bigger Heart's extensions to try to extend that guide more for him (the extensions are meant to be read independently in their head, and will get long reading aloud). I would probably use DITHOR 2/3 for him, as far as the DITHOR Student Book level. This will keep the writing down, but still provide excellent formal literature study. I would look at the DITHOR Level 3 book pack for him. This set has a reading level range of mid-third grade to early fifth grade. I think he will do well with this set and enjoy it based on what you've shared he is currently reading. Keep in mind DITHOR is only planned 3 days a week, so he will not be reading every day for DITHOR. Likewise, PHFHG is a 4 day a week guide, so he either will have a day off or can use the extra day to spread his work over 5 days. You will still be able to enjoy reading the Basic Package history read-alouds to him, and I think he will truly enjoy the more mature (oral) responses to the readings. The readings are short, about 15 min. Finally, I love that the Bible study box will fit his age and maturity beautifully! This part of the plans is parent-led, but 2 of the 4 days are modeling a personal Bible Quiet Time, which he is ready for at 10 1/2, and which I think is so timely for boys and girls alike!

You can teach your daughter nearly half of her Beyond... guide during your son's 2 independent boxes. This will be special time with her, where she can thrive in her own guide. Your son will be entering middle school soon, and looking ahead to high school, this plan puts him on a good path to be ready. While you could do Bigger Hearts..., I think it is too hard for your daughter and you'd be trying to make it harder for your son by reading aloud a lengthy set of extensions that were not meant to be read aloud. I know you have taught them together in the past, but I think going forward the 3 of you would actually enjoy having each appropriately placed, thriving, and making great gains for what is ahead. I hope this helps, but if you have other questions, please do ask!!!

In Christ,
Julie

I can’t thank you enough, Julie! This sounds like a good plan, both to address their individual needs now and to keep them moving forward appropriately. Your reassurance on the areas of Preparing that concerned me (in relation to my son’s abilities) is a huge help - I greatly appreciate your time and wise counsel!

I just want to say thank you for posting your placement question and thank you, Julie, for your detailed answers! My boys are very close in age and similar skill levels as your children. This post has greatly eased my mind in placement for them next year! Thank you, thank you, thank you! I have been pondering the different options for months. It's truly a blessing to have peace about it now!