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Hi,

My 8th grade dd will be working through R&S 6 this year, and since it is our first time using R&S, I'd like to get a handle on how a typical day flows. I've heard all along to do 2/3 orally, 1/3 written, but I need help understanding more specifically what that means. I have read in the past how important the oral review is, so I plan to do all of that each day. Then I plan to read the lesson together. It is after that where I need more guidance. Here are my questions:

1. General question: I have read Carrie say that she does not skip any of the exercises. So, does that mean the recommendation is to cover every single exercise (not just odds/evens) of every section either orally or written?

2. How do you handle the Class Practice section? Do you apply the 2/3 orally 1/3 written recommendation?

3. How do you handle the Written Exercises? I am assuming this is definitely a place where you apply the 2/3 orally and 1/3 written, but do you divide that out by section (e.g., 2 sections orally, 1 section written), or do you do some oral and some written from each section?

4. How do you handle the Review Exercises? Do you do all of it written, or do you do some orally?

5. How do you handle the writing lessons? Do you still do the Class Practice? I think I've read that the recommendation is to choose only one of the Written Exercises? Do you go over the other ones orally, or skip them?

6. I was considering getting the worksheets because it looks like they could replace some of the Written Exercises almost exactly and save some time. I would gauge each day what they could replace. Is this recommended, or is there some other aspect I need to consider?

7. Should I get the tests for an 8th grader? We are coming from CLE LA 7, and she is used to quizzes and tests, so that is not an issue for her. We are trying to cover all of 6 in one year, however, so there is the matter of time to consider. She will be using RTR this year.

Thank you for your help!
Kathy

We are only in Rod and Staff 5. But here is how we do it:
All of the class practice/oral exercises we do orally. Then, on the written exercises, I look to see what the questions are. Some times they are identical to the oral practice we have already done. If that is the case, we do it orally. If it is diagramming or something that really helps to write down, then I assign those. Depending on the number, I do sometimes not assign all of them though. If my daughter gets all of the ones I assign correct, she is done with that section. If she misses some, and it is showing she needs more practice, I will assign more after going over the ones she missed with her. Then on the review sections, I do the same thing. Some writing doesn't help at all. But if writing adds anything to the questions, I will have her write them.

I have used both CLE and R&S. CLE 700 is past R&S 6. I would suggest the placement test on Milestone. You may need to use R&S 7 or 8.

The oral lessons are intended to be done orally, and they are very good for teaching oral communication. This element is missing in CLE, and it is an elememt I appreciate in R&S.

The oral review in the TM is necessary for retention.

The written exercises, written review exercises, and composition exercises are intended to be done written. I would say R&S is 1/3 oral and 2/3 written.

When I did R&S with CTC I did use Carrie’s methods of more oral and skipping the worksheets and tests. I’ve found the composition excellence in R&S to be stronger the more it’s used in full. The worksheets though are for struggling students and mostly unneeded if you use the rest of the program with an emphasis on writing.

Thank you both for explaining how you use R&S. Christianmom, thank you for your thoughts on possibly needing R&S 7 or 8. I have had the same feeling, and have been trying to decide what to do there because it would help to be able to use the high school guides as written. In comparing R&S 6 and CLE 8, I'm seeing that gerunds and infinitives, which were covered in CLE 7, don't appear to be covered in R&S 6. On the other hand, there are some verb tenses covered in R&S 6 that were not covered in CLE 7 but are introduced in CLE 8, so those would be new in either case. And of course, the writing instruction is virtually non-existent in CLE, and R&S includes it. We have done a variety of writing programs over the years, and my daughter does well with it, but I think the R&S 6 instruction wouldn't hurt. I was thinking R&S 6 might be a good way to shore everything up from CLE 7 before heading into high school, but I don't want to lose too much ground.

If we went with R&S 7, which I also own and think my dd could handle, I'm not sure what we would do in the high school guides. Has anyone had experience with that, or does HOD have recommendations for how to handle that?

When you talk about the "composition excellence" and an "emphasis on writing", are you saying that you've found it more beneficial to write out all the answers to all exercises, or are you saying you've found it more beneficial to do all of the composition exercises?

Thanks,
Kathy

jer2911mom wrote:Thank you both for explaining how you use R&S. Christianmom, thank you for your thoughts on possibly needing R&S 7 or 8. I have had the same feeling, and have been trying to decide what to do there because it would help to be able to use the high school guides as written. In comparing R&S 6 and CLE 8, I'm seeing that gerunds and infinitives, which were covered in CLE 7, don't appear to be covered in R&S 6. On the other hand, there are some verb tenses covered in R&S 6 that were not covered in CLE 7 but are introduced in CLE 8, so those would be new in either case. And of course, the writing instruction is virtually non-existent in CLE, and R&S includes it. We have done a variety of writing programs over the years, and my daughter does well with it, but I think the R&S 6 instruction wouldn't hurt. I was thinking R&S 6 might be a good way to shore everything up from CLE 7 before heading into high school, but I don't want to lose too much ground.

If we went with R&S 7, which I also own and think my dd could handle, I'm not sure what we would do in the high school guides. Has anyone had experience with that, or does HOD have recommendations for how to handle that?

When you talk about the "composition excellence" and an "emphasis on writing", are you saying that you've found it more beneficial to write out all the answers to all exercises, or are you saying you've found it more beneficial to do all of the composition exercises?

Thanks,
Kathy

There are some detailed differences in scope and sequence, like you mentioned, but I found the levels of CLE and R&S to be close to one another. For example, I used the CLE placement test when we moved from R&S to CLE and the R&S placement test when we moved back to R&S, and for both directions I found them to test into the next level number they would be in without the switch. For instance, if they were finished with R&S 5 they would test into CLE 600 and then into R&S 7 coming back to R&S. There are a few small differences we had to fill in for grammar, but I found them to be in similar places. We only used CLE for one year. I prefer R&S.

The big differences I found between the two programs are the oral lessons and composition lessons in Rod and Staff; I found these two areas to be missing in CLE. CLE has writing included, but it isn’t at the instruction level of R&S.

For R&S, I have my kids do the oral lessons orally and the written lessons written. I do have them do the written reviews and write out all of the composition lessons and all of the written lessons. Early on, I tried to do more oral with R&S, but I have found the program works best following it the way it’s written. I rarely use the worksheets.

I hope that helps!

Thanks, christianmom! Which year did you use CLE? Did you switch at the higher middle school levels at all? I'm wondering if R&S ramps up more than CLE in 7th and 8th? Obviously the writing does, but I'm wondering if the grammar does, too? From what I've seen, they seem to be similar in the lower levels, although R&S does go deeper in some areas.

I may stick with R&S 6 next year just to allow us more time for adjusting to the different types of narrations and all the written work (our last HOD level was Preparing) and for my daughter to be able to focus on a French I online class she is taking. It wouldn't hurt for her to have an easier grammar year to shore things up. I really appreciate your sharing your experiences with R&S and CLE with me. She loves grammar and wants to take the most thorough program she can take. I think R&S is it!

Kathy

I bought the worksheets and tests this past year for book 6. I thought they were very helpful. We do all the oral review, the Lesson, then the worksheets if the lesson has one, if it doesn't then I have him do some of the written section from the book. Most to all the writing sections (book reports, outlines, etc.) and use the tests for the chapter review. It has worked out great for us. I will continue to do it this way. I wish I had done it this way with my older two.

Stacey

Thanks, Stacey. So you do the tests instead of the chapter reviews? And do you cover the sections in the lessons that the worksheets don't cover? It seems like they usually cover one section of the written lesson.

I use the worksheets for the written section and look at the review to see if we need to cover it. I use the tests in place of the chapter review. If a lesson doesn't have a worksheet assigned to it than I usually have him do the written section but not always. I try to do all the writing stuff: book reports, outlines, stories, etc. He will type most of this on the computer following the MLA format. As you get going and see the flow, you will get a feel for how it is going.

Hope that makes sense.

Stacey

Oh the answers for all the worksheet and tests are in the back of the teacher manual.

Thanks, Stacey!