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Hello--I am a homeschool mom of 2 boys, ages 10 (4th grade) and 12 (7th grade). I was looking ahead to high school curricula for my approaching 8th grader since I wanted to make sure what I chose for 8th grade would coincide nicely with my choices for high school. Currently, we are in the 3rd of 5 cycles with Veritas Press History. This current cycle will end with the Reformation. VP splits up American History into 2 years which would complete a cycle for us. When I view the HOD placement charts, they are very thorough---if I begin both my boys with HOD Revival to Revolution, in some tasks, a few assignments might be too early for my would-be 5th grader (mainly the writing) who would have just turned 11 at the beginning of the year. Plus, he would have a lack of material before starting high school since he would finish with Missions to Modern Marvels at the end of 6th grade. Knowing I would want to begin HOD World Geography in 9th grade for my older son, I think Revival to Revolution would be a good fit for him--but then we would miss the latter half of American History (Missions to Modern Marvels). Then to confuse myself even more , after looking at Creation to Christ, I thought that looked like a perfect fit for my younger son, but it would mean stopping mid- history cycle and starting over. Any advice? Thank you so much in advance. P.S. We did cycle through American History already just for the great literature when the boys were younger.

Welcome to HOD! One thing to consider as you contemplate where to place your boys is the fact that HOD is not built like many of the curriculums where you follow a history cycle with the whole family. Each HOD guide steps up skills and has a recommended age/skill range that would correspond to approximate grade levels. So you would not want to place your 6th grader in Modern Missions to finish a history cycle, as that is a guide that is used most commonly for 8th grade, but also can be used for 7th in some cases or 9th as well. The upper level guides from CTC on can be adjusted for high school if needed and there is a section in this forum that gives lots of advice on how to do that. So all that to say, it will be very important you place your boys according to skill level. I have used HOD from kindergarten, and it is a wonderfully designed program that works in so many skills and builds on them each year. One really has to use it several years to see the genius of what the author, Carrie, has done with the guides.
I would encourage you to not worry about the history cycle, even though I know that will be hard to let go. Even if your child has gone through a particular time period, HOD is such a different approach that it would be very doable to repeat that cycle. Actually, if you follow HOD through, a child will go through US history two years in a row in elementary, a couple years (very early Rev to Rev, finishing with missions) in junior high, and then two years in high school. So if one of your boys places out of US for now you would not need to worry, he would get it before he is done. Based on your children's ages, your youngest would probably place either in Creation to Christ or Resurrection to Reformation next year and your oldest either in Revival to Revolution or Modern Missions. I am glad you have already looked at the placement chart, so with this philosophy in mind, I would encourage you to look at it again, keeping in mind the first section is the most important and if a child is "on the line" and has not used HOD, it is best to place him in the lower guide. Here is the link to the section that talks about beefing up the junior high guides for high school in case you need it. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6571

Thank you, countrymom. Your response is so helpful to me. Any other input from the main board would be appreciated. 3 additional questions:
1. Both my boys have used IEW thus far (younger son completed SWI Level A, my older son SWI Levels A and B). If I placed my younger son in Creation to Christ, would Writing with the Best dovetail well with what we have learned in IEW?
2. Same question for my older son, regarding The Exciting World of Creative Writing if I place him in Revival to Revolution.
3. The 4-year HOD high school track really appeals to me. Is is possible to combine Missions to Modern Marvels history component only with the World Geography guide? We would be doing Revival to Revolution during his 8th grade year.

Thank you in advance!

Write with the Best teaches many of the same elements as IEW only it teaches them differently. They look at different excerpt from famous writers and they analyze it. Then they write something of similar style. They do focus on using strong verbs, quality adjectives and quality adverbs. It isn't identical but taught differently. My kids really liked it.

Your older son would do just fine jumping into The Exciting World of Creative Writing. That book teaches kids how to write a short story. My oldest enjoyed it very much.

I think combining MtMM with WG would be too much work and not really worth it IMHO. If it were me, and you really like the items taught in MtMM, just use this guide for 9th grade. Loads of families already do and I might do that myself. My son is 11 and is on the oldest end of his age range. I haven't really decided if he is 5th or 6th grade. He may do the final HOD and he may not. But many families who have found HOD use MtMM for 9th grade and they just don't complete the final guide but still graduate their kids after the US1 guide. Yes, there is some tweaking that can be done for the electives and some tweaking for science as needed depending on the need of the child. But if you like the history from that level and you don't want to skip, then definitely don't. HOD is a great program and it isn't necessarily that grade specific if that makes sense. I know for us, we won't be skipping MtMM to make sure we get to the final guide.

Thanks for sharing about your sons! We have used HOD for our 3 sons, and proper placement is an incredible blessing for all involved. Placement does not focus on the history cycle, though history is an integral part of all of Heart of Dakota's guides! Here is Carrie's commentary on this topic...

Question 3: Why can’t I just place my children in HOD where they would fit next in the history cycle?

It is amazing to me in homeschool circles, how much emphasis we give to the history cycle in planning our children’s homeschool years! In fact, it is so much this way that as a new homeschool mom twelve years ago, I was sure that the history cycle was to be the focal point of my children’s homeschool plan for all of their years of schooling. To point out how misguided the incredible emphasis on this focus could be, consider if we made other decisions in our life like this. What if, as adults, there was a “set” 4 year exercise sequence that all adults followed, however this sequence did not take into account any variables that may affect your success in this plan. For example, prior to starting this exercise plan, no account would be taken of what you weighed, what your previous workout history had been, or whether or not as a woman you were pregnant or had just had a baby, and no thought would be given to your age, or even to your gender in considering the best exercise plan for you. Let’s just say that all persons followed this same 4 year exercise sequence no matter what, and what’s more you had to complete this exercise plan in sequence no matter how you changed over the years. Ask yourself, how successful would the exercise plan be for you? Would you feel that all of your needs were considered in placing you in this type of a plan? Now, before you say that this is ridiculous, think of how closely this parallels the thinking that the history cycle should dictate what our children do from year-to-year and how little placement by this guideline takes into account the needs of your individual children?

At HOD, placement is based mainly on family dynamics, mix of personalities, and individual needs of family members. It is not based on the history cycle, because this kind of placement does not take into account the family’s needs but instead makes the history cycle the supreme focus and deciding factor. While we do include the history cycle at HOD, and we do love history, you’ll notice that on the HOD Board (when placing families) we rarely ask what a family has done in the past for the history cycle. This is because the history cycle is only one small piece of the learning puzzle, and decisions based solely on the history cycle overlook much of the academic and spiritual needs of the individual children.

Age is also only one indicator used for placement. At HOD, within our placement chart, you’ll notice that the target ages on our guides overlap. This is because age is only one piece of the puzzle that needs to be considered prior to finding the correct fit. You’ll find that families with similar aged kiddos often follow different HOD paths and end up in different HOD guides, based on their child’s skill level and their family dynamics.

Blessings,
Carrie

From what you've shared about your fifth grader, Creation to Christ would be a wonderful fit! He is young, and he will be able to enjoy the four sequenced guides from CTC through MTMM, which will take him from Creation to Modern Times and prepare him beautifully for the 4 guide sequence of high school. The ancients are taught in a fresh and exciting way with HOD, and this guide is the start of students using full-color notebooking pages for their history assignments. It is so special to look back through the four years of the "Hearts for Him Through Time" series notebooking! I just looked back at this the other day, as my oldest son will be graduating this year, and so much progress is just visually evident!

For your eighth grader, are you choosing Revival to Revolution because it is the best placement for him, or are you choosing it due to the history cycle he has been using? With HOD, and especially looking toward high school, it is best to place students according to age/abilities/skills using the placement chart. Carrie's commentary on this topic may help explain this...

Question 2: Why do we ask you to look at the placement chart for each of your individual children when considering the best placement for your family?

With HOD, every family member is valued when considering placement. This is why our placement chart looks at each individual child and considers what skills he/she has and where he/she would first place as an individual. You’ll notice we spend much time on our message board asking about each child within your family. This is because we need to know about each individual before we can suggest options for the whole family. Possible combinations within the family are always considered based on the needs of each individual child.

When deciding which learning path to take for your family, we lean toward combining smaller age increments if at all possible. The only times we work toward separating kiddos are when the age spread between children is too great to accommodate the varying needs of the learners, or if the younger students or older students are not getting what is needed as individuals within a combined situation, or if the combination of personalities within the mix is not the best for combining within a guide.

In order to make sure that the younger learners are getting the skills they need, we lean toward combining with the younger student in mind and beefing up for the older student. With this plan, we can make sure that the younger is receiving meaningful instruction and skill-based activities, and not just a watered down version of what the older student is doing. With this plan, it is always easier to move an older student forward if needed, than it is to back up with a younger student.

To help visualize what I mean by making sure that the younger student is receiving “meaningful instruction and skill-based activities”, I’ll share the following example. On my flight to the convention, the flight attendant on the plane gave her “speech” about plane safety, seatbelts, oxygen masks, exiting the plane, and floatation devices. I listened fairly halfheartedly and could tell you generally what was said, but mainly because I’d heard it before. Now, suppose that instead I had been informed that after the speech I would be required to write down what the flight attendant said. How much better would I have listened? What if, instead, I had been told that I would have to retell what the flight attendant had said after her speech? This would be a bit easier than writing it down, but still fairly difficult, and I would likely have had to listen better. Now, what if my assignment had been to follow along with the printed card instead? This wouldn’t take nearly as much effort as either of the two previous assignments, but I may still take a bit more from the speech if I could follow along. Last, consider if my assignment instead was to color a picture of the airplane during or after the flight attendant’s speech, while I listened in. If this was my assignment, how involved would I be in the “speech” and how much would I take from it? While this example does show varying levels of assignments, each increasing in difficulty, we have to weigh how valuable is the learning experience that the youngest is receiving in this watered down approach? How much better would the youngest child retain if the learning was on his/her level and the assignment really required him/her to think as much as the older child?

At HOD, as we ponder various combinations for a family, we’re always keeping in mind that there should be different expectations for different age levels, both in length of school day and in skills addressed. We won’t suggest combining within a guide, unless we think the learning will be meaningful for all learners grouped within a guide. This is why it works well to extend the learning, skills, and time for the older student, while giving the younger student the core learning. We also want to assure that a child is not merely listening in to an older child’s school day, but rather we want a younger child to get the same focused attention that an older student received in his/her younger years. In this way, each child in the family is valued and addressed both as an individual and as part of the family.

Blessings,
Carrie


This is one more question Carrie answered so well that I thought may be helpful...
Question 1: What are we considering, when you ask us which guide your family should use?

*If you’ve ever purchased any kind of clothing that is marked “one-size fits all”, you have likely discovered the reality that one-size truly does NOT fit all! I’m thinking of supposedly “one-size fits all” gloves, p.j.s, and workout pants that I’ve tried. Unfortunately, I found out that my “size” was not in the “one-size fits all” category! I share this example because many homeschool curriculums take the “one-size fits all approach”, offering the same advice and same path to everyone.

At HOD, we give you options to ponder of possible paths that could best meet your family needs, and these recommendations are always based on what you share with us about each of your individual children. One unique aspect of HOD is that we have written our guides so that you can choose whether to combine or not to combine your children for their learning. This flexibility allows you to choose what is best for your family, rather than providing a “one-size fits all path”. At HOD, we don’t dictate to you whether you need to combine your children or whether you need to separate them. Each family situation is unique and is looked at in an individual light.

Our guides also allow you the flexibility to move back and forth between combining or separating your children along the homeschool path, if needed, allowing for changes over the years in family dynamics and situations. Each year, you can reassess, to be sure of which path should be followed each step of the way, giving you a customized fit.

Blessings,
Carrie

History does repeat itself, so either way, the history will get covered by the time your older son graduates very nicely with HOD! So, looking at the placement chart, where does your son place best? If you are not starting for awhile, it could be that it would be best to look at the placement chart with fresh eyes closer to when he will be starting HOD. There are multiple paths through high school, but the best one will be the one that places your son right where it fits him best. HOD can be customized such as this, and it is truly such a blessing! If he fits well placement-wise in Revival to Revolution for 8th grade, we can help with a solid path through the rest of his high school years! Or, if he fits best in another guide, such as Missions to Modern Marvels, the four year path using WG through USII would work well! What are your thoughts?

In Christ,
Julie Grosz

Julie,

You sharing Carrie's posts and applying that knowledge in your own thoughts to my situation are extremely helpful. Thank you so very much. I have decided Creation to Christ for my younger son is the way to go, as you advised.

For my older son, looking at the placement chart, he really could go on to Missions to Marvels without reservation with exception to the writing. He has completed IEW's SWI Levels A and B, but he is so resistant to writing, that we shelved it this year--mostly because of writing fatigue. I pushed a little too hard-my fault. I couldn't place him with confidence regarding his writing narrations, because I haven't asked him to do that as an assignment. His writing to this point has been a product of the 9 units of IEW. Also, I was the "engine" to the writing---I feel like I co-authored much of his work. He is very bright--Algebra I math, very analytical--he has a neighborhood business so I know that part of Missions to Marvels economics/business books would interest him. From an apologetics standpoint, we have used Answers in Genesis for years--he is currently reading the Answers books for adults, so I feel confident there. However, when I read other posts, HOD parents say when in doubt to place down a level. He can narrate orally--just writing for him is a chore at this point. Does that help you advise me? I really do appreciate your thoughts. It helps me so much. Thank you. Also, considering high school credits, how would it work out if we started with Revival to Revolution, then picking up with MtM in 9th grade? I have in my college notes the following (as far as "Social Studies") is what is required on a HS transcript: World History, World Geography, US History, .5 credit Government, .5 credit Economics. I am a big-picture person, so I just want to make sure my choices now will set us up for success later. Thank you!

One more question, Julie--where does Spelling come in? We currently use AAS---I don't see spelling in the sample schedules. Thanks!

Orthomom wrote:One more question, Julie--where does Spelling come in? We currently use AAS---I don't see spelling in the sample schedules. Thanks!

HOD uses the CM method of dictation to cover spelling. It is more than just spelling though, as they have to have everything in the passage correct. So it also works on grammar and working memory. If you have never heard of CM dictation, I highly recommend Googling it.

(I know AAS has dictation in it, but I am not sure if it is the same or not.)

Orthomom wrote:Julie,

You sharing Carrie's posts and applying that knowledge in your own thoughts to my situation are extremely helpful. Thank you so very much. I have decided Creation to Christ for my younger son is the way to go, as you advised.

For my older son, looking at the placement chart, he really could go on to Missions to Marvels without reservation with exception to the writing. He has completed IEW's SWI Levels A and B, but he is so resistant to writing, that we shelved it this year--mostly because of writing fatigue. I pushed a little too hard-my fault. I couldn't place him with confidence regarding his writing narrations, because I haven't asked him to do that as an assignment. His writing to this point has been a product of the 9 units of IEW. Also, I was the "engine" to the writing---I feel like I co-authored much of his work. He is very bright--Algebra I math, very analytical--he has a neighborhood business so I know that part of Missions to Marvels economics/business books would interest him. From an apologetics standpoint, we have used Answers in Genesis for years--he is currently reading the Answers books for adults, so I feel confident there. However, when I read other posts, HOD parents say when in doubt to place down a level. He can narrate orally--just writing for him is a chore at this point. Does that help you advise me? I really do appreciate your thoughts. It helps me so much. Thank you. Also, considering high school credits, how would it work out if we started with Revival to Revolution, then picking up with MtM in 9th grade? I have in my college notes the following (as far as "Social Studies") is what is required on a HS transcript: World History, World Geography, US History, .5 credit Government, .5 credit Economics. I am a big-picture person, so I just want to make sure my choices now will set us up for success later. Thank you!

Thanks for sharing your thoughts here, and I'm excited for your 5th grade son to do Creation to Christ! Thanks also for sharing more about your 8th grade son. It sounds like he is doing very well in all areas, but that writing is not his favorite! There always has to be one that isn't their favorite, right? Writing woes can come for a variety of reasons. If you asked him to write a narration Charlotte Mason style (where there is more freedom in what is written as retelling the reading with personal style and personal interest is the goal rather than a completely factual summary), about how many sentences would be write on his own, without you having to become the cheerleader? Several paragraphs or about 10-14 sentences, is the goal in Revival to Revolution, and 3-4 paragraphs or about 12-16 sentences is the goal in Missions to Modern Marvels. Keep in mind this is a skill to 'grow' into, so a student need not be proficient at this at the very start! However, we don't want to expect leaps and bounds and heap stress upon your dear son either! I am thinking this previous thread where Carrie talks through the decision of...
"Choosing RevtoRev or MTMM for high school or bumping up to World Geography guide for high school" might be helpful to read as well, as this is a part of the process of making this "big picture of what's ahead" decision as well...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13690&p=97830#p97830
"Three High School Paths within HOD"… might also be helpful to read...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8208&p=59681

The time it takes to complete the guide may make a difference in your decision as well, so here are the time allotments for each of the guides:
Time for MTMM guide:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12652&p=90990

RevtoRev time it takes:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10230&p=74441

Finally, printing the first week of plans for each guide, paying close attention to the "T" teacher-directed, "S" semi-independent, and "I" independent labels in the corner of each box, may help may clear which guide would be better. If you find yourself looking at MTMM and thinking you will need to tweak things to make they easier (i.e. do things orally instead of written, do less sentences than assigned, do things together meant to be done more independently, etc.), then RevtoRev would be the better placement...
MTMM First Week of Plans:
https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/MTMM-first-week-1.pdf
RevtoRev First Week of Plans:
https://www.heartofdakota.com/pdf/Rev2R ... t-week.pdf

If you decide MTMM is the best placement, then you can focus on having your son start doing some written narrations on living book readings he is doing now to build those skills and to help stretch him in this area. I think I'd do this in lieu of continued work on IEW - a break is needed for you and for him! Why not set it aside and enjoy some less stressful writing of narrations? He can also type them if he prefers. I'd start with his comfort level of sentences (however many that is - 5, 7, 10 sentences - and encourage him bunches! Very gradually lengthening the narrations 1 sentence at a time as able.

If you decide RevtoRev is the best placement, this would be the path he'd take through high school...
9th: MTMM with extensions (counts as U.S. History II credit); either add to Economics in MTMM or do Economics later, possibly as a summer course?
10th: World Geography
11th: World History
12th: U.S. History I (includes 1/2 credit Government already)

Of course there are more credits than just the history credits, as Heart of Dakota offers complete high school credits, but before we get into that, what are your thoughts on placement after looking through some of this? Sorry I took a bit to get back to you! I'll try to do so sooner next time!

In Christ,
Julie