heartofdakota.com

Hello,

I am new to this forum and have been researching different curriculum choices for my children age 11 and 14. I have been very intrigued by both and I am having a difficult time deciding between the two. I find Sonlight especially more so in the highschool level reallly challenges the children to ``think outside the box`` and strengthen their faith from what I gather.
I would love to hear from users of both curriculums, those that have come from sonlight and perhaps what caused you to change from Sonlight. The main thing I am concerned about is possibly losing the faith in Christ through perhaps the reading materials. At the same time, I want to make sure any curriculum we use does prepare them for the outside world. We are also coming from Rod and Staff English and reading program, if that makes any difference in either programs.
I also would love to hear from those who have used only HOD as well and what you enjoy and why you have solely used it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

ttemple wrote:Hello,

I am new to this forum and have been researching different curriculum choices for my children age 11 and 14. I have been very intrigued by both and I am having a difficult time deciding between the two. I find Sonlight especially more so in the highschool level reallly challenges the children to ``think outside the box`` and strengthen their faith from what I gather.
I would love to hear from users of both curriculums, those that have come from sonlight and perhaps what caused you to change from Sonlight. The main thing I am concerned about is possibly losing the faith in Christ through perhaps the reading materials. At the same time, I want to make sure any curriculum we use does prepare them for the outside world. We are also coming from Rod and Staff English and reading program, if that makes any difference in either programs.
I also would love to hear from those who have used only HOD as well and what you enjoy and why you have solely used it.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

I've tried it twice for high school and both times, it's lacked horribly in Biblical integration. I don't find it strengthened our faith at all, in fact we found it a rather worldly mindset. You are comparing apples to oranges. SL I found (after using HOD since Beyond), is very much about immunizing you to the world. They want you to respect other views. I don't respect immoral practices or beliefs and unbiblical views, even for the sake of culture, but the person who needs to be saved that needs to be introduced to the Word, so it didn't work at all for us. The notes were "scary," although they can be completely removed, but it looks like you want that "outside the box" thinking. But let me ask you, do you want to learn truth first, or plant seeds of discension along with truth. The Bible calls us to teach truth! I would urge you to look up persons they quote and footnote. I've found several very odd "activists" whom they consider to be "considered." It's almost like they're trying to sway you the opposite direction, because they don't seem to spend the same amount of time on Bible integration as they do on philosophies. Pessimistic comes to mind. IMO, that is more for college level philosophy classes, but certainly not for developing minds that you wish to teach truth to.

In both Core 100 and 300 I found oodles of places that could have had Biblical integration and didn't. In one place the Core 100 notes judge GW's Christianity, based on his church attendance. Gosh, I'm glad I don't base the note-writer based on his notes!! Truth be told, the writer of the notes is a philosopher, so be ready to take on a slew of "philosophies." I feel there may be a time and place, but not when minds are so easily swayed. Truth first (as the Bible so states). I am not willing give up my child's faith, because of philosophies introduced at the wrong time. There's always the kids who will be an exception, but are you willing to take a chance with your own child? Which one? (Thank Voddie Baucham for that line!)

Our family can understand other's issues and culture without the gory details. I don't need to watch ISIS chop off a head to understand it.

So your concern is genuine. And since you have a concern, I would say that it can be done, but you need to be in those books and notes full time! My dd even threw one in the trash due to it's sexual content. It's not gratuitous, but it's in there almost to assume that it's just okay, but no one ever asks if needs to be there. There could have been a better book. Some books are very good, but some in hindsight, there was a LOT to discuss.

You can very well remove the books you dislike and pull the notes on your own to talk about. There are some very good points that are fantastic for discussion! But overall, it definitely wasn't what we wanted to spend our time on. Just too much immunization for us.

We continue to use HOD. For high school we tweak it a lot, we pick and choose, but never because of content, but because of interest, time and electives.

I have never used Sonlight, honestly I read too much about issues with the books to ever consider it. Plus read, read and more reading with no other follow up activities just isn't my son's cup of tea.

We have used HOD since Preparing and he will finish out his high school years with the US2 guide next year. HOD does just what I wanted a curriculum to do. In the younger years it gives a very solid biblical foundation going straight to the Word of God for biblical teaching. This continues throughout the years, but after they know the truth there are studies on things like Evolution and looking at other beliefs, but again they student is taught to look at all these things in the light of God's Word. Once in High School there is a study on World Cultures and Beliefs that comes from a Christian perspective and gives the student good solid information to understand other faiths and also then evangelize to others. The books in the High School guide do deal with some challenging content that is appropriate to the age, but includes things that are outside the word of God. Carrie again has the student look up verses to see exactly what the Bible says about the subject. I fell like HOD does a very good job of teaching students to think through things especially in the history and literature areas.

A curriculum can only do so much to draw someone to Christ and give them tools to deal with the "real" world. My job as a parent is to guide my children using good sound Biblical teaching and I feel HOD is one of the tools I use to do that. My son understands the sins of the world, he isn't sheltered, but he also has a good understanding of his belief's and why he believes what he does.

I've used both. In fact, I have a high schooler who is leaving Sonlight for HOD.

Sonlight is a literature based curriculum, but that's all it offers. The questions in the guides are not deep through provoking questions, there is no literary analysis happening, & I wouldn't call their Bible books faith building. In fact in the first high school core we've used our first 2 Bible books were utter busts as we found them Biblically unsound. One indicating that you must pray about what to pray about & another stating that God doesn't love people who don't worship & pray to him & that if those people get ahead in life it is only from harming other people.

What it does have is a heavy reading load for the high school level. My high schooler has to read 2-3 chapters per day in an encyclopedia, & then anywhere from 2-5 chapters in a Lit book, another 2-4 chapters in a historical fiction book, & then the authors presume that if you don't read the notes they've included {their own bias on the book selections they've made} that your child will not have a proper Christian world view. I know I sound really icky towards this company, I guess it's my extreme disappointment that at this level they haven't really got that much going. Despite what the catalog may say anticipate that both the history & the literature portions will take more than 30-45 minutes each depending on how quickly your student can read. On top of that SL only offers Math, Science, & LA {we don't use their LA as we find them inadiquate} so you need to still feel the gaps for electives.

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Our first High School Programme with HOD will be World Geography. One thing my son was really drawn to was the Christ centred focus with HOD. {He was a little tired of the constant profanity in some of the SL selections.} He was deeply pulled to the Notebooking pages as he did those prior to his SL days too, & I admit I loved that they were there to help solidify what he is learning & offer something to show for all the hard work he's put in over the course of the year. I appreciate that HOD has literary analysis built right into the programme & scheduled throughout. Despite having homeschooled for 11 years I had a mini freak out this year over this component & it's lacking in SL.

I found the HOD schedule far more balanced & I love that their book selections are a more even ratio of biographies, non-fiction spines, historical fiction, & literature thrown in there. There are still a fair amount of books, but in the few weeks we've sampled the pace feels more even to us compared to what we have been doing. As we have not completed this programme in full I don't know if that changes down the line or not.

We really appreciate that HOD understands that a high schooler has to accomplish more than just history & literature in their year. They've accommodated for that including Foreign Language, Lit Analysis, Science, Elective Credits, & so on. My son LOVES history & could spend his entire day reading about it, but the reality is there are other very specific goals he needs to reach in high school & I often feel frustrated with any curriculum company who forgets that their subject is not THE ONLY subject a child needs to accomplish.

4 Day. That was a HUGE deal maker for my boy when he was debating what to choose next year. SL does not offer a 4 day option at the high school level. It's 5 full days of work. If you miss a day, are sick, your schedule is heavy, you can easily feel behind quickly. With HOD's 4 day schedule it leaves wiggle room should there be any issue with slipping, sickness, or the likes. It leaves a day for catching up on projects, self-study, outings, sport, music lessons, driving lessons, etc.


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I know every family is different so I share this final bit with a little hesitancy.. We moved our moody middle schooler to HOD because he wasn't feeling the love in any sense with SL. He was miserable & his love for learning had entirely vanished. It was hard to deal with it & was difficult to watch. My option for changing him was more based on the high school years knowing if he couldn't cope with the middle school years he'd never cope with the high school years.

In the 6 weeks he's been using HOD his love for learning has come alive again. He's excited about the book choices & full of wonder & questions afterwards. So many, in fact, that I had to call a severe time out on question asking the other day. I was enduring a wicked migraine & I couldn't handle being asked one more question about Visigoths so I suggested he go research all his questions on his own & get back to me.. after I iced my head.

I'd urge you to print out the lovely samples that BOTH companies offer. Compare them, locate the books & compare them. Talk to your child & allow them a little input. See which one best fits what you are looking for. If you know anyone who uses either curriculum maybe you could arrange to talk with them & look over the curriculum that way too. Good luck, curriculum picking can be very hard can't it!

I had a long post all typed up about why we switched from Sonlight to HOD and it didn't save . Anyway, we have been with HOD for 6 years now and have no plans to change. We love HOD! I wanted to suggest that you read the thread stickied at the top of this board, "Reasons behind HOD's choices". That will give you a lot of insight into the hows and whys of Carrie's choices. Also, if you search this message board for Sonlight, I am sure several previous threads will pop up where people have asked questions similar to yours. Blessings to you as you continue your curriculum research.

I have only used HOD all the way through, my oldest is going into 7th and Rev to Rev. I have a couple of friends who use SL so here are just my "HOD-ie" perspective on some of the differences.

HOD does a lot of activities and hits people of different learning styles. My 2nd born does not enjoy reading and would dislike a curriculum that focussed solely on that. The "crafts" and hands on activities are sometimes a downside for parents in the younger guides, people who don't like that kind of stuff, but with the older guides those activities are done independently by the child and the child learns to follow directions, to follow a recipe, to do science experiments on their own and come to conclusions, etc. I'm not sure about the HS guides, it seems like in many of those it's different curricula pulled together and less of an integrated thing written mostly by Carrie. But after loving LOVING almost all of the selections in the younger guides, I have a lot of trust that Carrie has put together excellent choices that are academically challenging, interesting, engaging, and focus on a Biblical world view.

Biblical world view is the #1 thing I love about HOD. I love the discussions we have. Do I think it prepares my students well for the real world? Yes I do. We're not skating around hard issues, we're discussing them, but in light of what God's word says. It is so refreshing to read literature where virtue is upheld. It makes it seem possible for any of us to be virtuous in an evil world. Many of the literature and reading choices are similar for younger grades, but as they move up it seems they diverge a lot more. HOD has found some wonderful treasures of literature that I am so glad my children and I have the chance to read and learn from.

Work load and expectations is another big factor. I always hear SL moms, especially when they have a lot of kids at different levels, say "it's so much, I'm so overwhelmed, I can't do it all." I rarely feel that way with HOD, even though I now have 4 kids in the program. The younger grades are so quick and easy, while being meaty, that I have time to focus on working with my older children also. My older children are trained so well in independence (when they are diligent and don't get lazy) that I have time to do the best parts with them, grade, and talk over their work and what they've learned. I love the way it balances all of our days. Not that it's not ever hard or I don't ever get overwhelmed, but it works well and I really enjoy the time I spend on school.

We've used HOD all of the way through and are currently in the 12th grade high school guide with our eldest son. We've used HOD for many reasons, but the first and foremost can be summed up in this Bible verse from Mark 8:36...
For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

I care about academics, and so does my sister, Carrie (the author of HOD). I cannot tell you the amount of time and money we have put toward the study of academics and how best to teach students. We both have our master's degree in education/administration, and our passion for strong academics has always been a priority for us - even before we had our own children to homeschool. In fact, we spent countless hours (literally until midnight many nights every week) planning to help each student in our public school classrooms be the strongest academic students possible. Standardized testing proved noteworthy gains, and soon grant money followed. But, the luster wore off when we began to truly realize that "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" and an education bereft of the Lord is an education bereft of wisdom. Looking back, I still get emotional when I think of all my students in 7 years of teaching public school I didn't talk to about the Lord. I know Carrie feels the same with her students from 11 years of public school teaching. I run into my former students now sometimes, they are married, they are working, they are parents - they give me a hug and we catch up with one another - but deep down, I'm wondering if they know the Lord? I never brought this up during my teaching them all those many hours each day, and I feel a deep sadness about this still today. I vowed not to make the same mistake with my own children.

So, I could write pages and pages of why I have used HOD all the way through homeschooling PreK through 12th, of why I think HOD is academically amazing all the way through high school, and of how excited I am for my son's future after high school - but what it comes down to the most is my son loves the Lord! We have spent every single day in the Bible in virtually every single school subject within HOD, and that is time well spent the Lord assures me. The Bible is the living Word - I believe it with all my heart! There is just something about being in that Word daily, about making it a priority each and every day of school, about discussing it, about praying each day, about singing praises to the Lord, and about using a curriculum that puts Christ front and center - always. My son knows the Lord, truly knows the Lord and loves him, and his future is bright and promising because of it! We talk easily about the Lord, we pray easily together, we navigate the difficult waters of teenage years together with the Lord at the helm, and you know what? It has been the best thing I've done with my time as a mom. I haven't used Sonlight, so others' opinions in this post are more valuable on that topic than mine. But, I will say I would question any Christian curriculum that puts learning about the Lord in a separate time/subject of the day that can be dropped easily to leave a secular curriculum in its place. That sounds a lot like my experience with public school, and it's not one I remember fondly. It's not one I would want to relive in my own home with my own precious children with their own eternal future hanging in the balance. I hope this helps!

In Christ,
Julie

I've tried it twice for high school and both times, it's lacked horribly in Biblical integration. I don't find it strengthened our faith at all, in fact we found it a rather worldly mindset. You are comparing apples to oranges. SL I found (after using HOD since Beyond), is very much about immunizing you to the world. They want you to respect other views. I don't respect immoral practices or beliefs and unbiblical views, even for the sake of culture, but the person who needs to be saved that needs to be introduced to the Word, so it didn't work at all for us. The notes were "scary," although they can be completely removed, but it looks like you want that "outside the box" thinking. But let me ask you, do you want to learn truth first, or plant seeds of discension along with truth. The Bible calls us to teach truth! I would urge you to look up persons they quote and footnote. I've found several very odd "activists" whom they consider to be "considered." It's almost like they're trying to sway you the opposite direction, because they don't seem to spend the same amount of time on Bible integration as they do on philosophies. Pessimistic comes to mind. IMO, that is more for college level philosophy classes, but certainly not for developing minds that you wish to teach truth to.

In both Core 100 and 300 I found oodles of places that could have had Biblical integration and didn't. In one place the Core 100 notes judge GW's Christianity, based on his church attendance. Gosh, I'm glad I don't base the note-writer based on his notes!! Truth be told, the writer of the notes is a philosopher, so be ready to take on a slew of "philosophies." I feel there may be a time and place, but not when minds are so easily swayed. Truth first (as the Bible so states). I am not willing give up my child's faith, because of philosophies introduced at the wrong time. There's always the kids who will be an exception, but are you willing to take a chance with your own child? Which one? (Thank Voddie Baucham for that line!)

Our family can understand other's issues and culture without the gory details. I don't need to watch ISIS chop off a head to understand it.

So your concern is genuine. And since you have a concern, I would say that it can be done, but you need to be in those books and notes full time! My dd even threw one in the trash due to it's sexual content. It's not gratuitous, but it's in there almost to assume that it's just okay, but no one ever asks if needs to be there. There could have been a better book. Some books are very good, but some in hindsight, there was a LOT to discuss.

You can very well remove the books you dislike and pull the notes on your own to talk about. There are some very good points that are fantastic for discussion! But overall, it definitely wasn't what we wanted to spend our time on. Just too much immunization for us.

We continue to use HOD. For high school we tweak it a lot, we pick and choose, but never because of content, but because of interest, time and electives.[/quote]

Ok thank you for your opinion. It sounds like it may not be for us after all. The truth is I like the books that they have as readers...well in the elementary years. The other thing is you tweak the highschool HOD for your reasons...but let me ask you is it sufficient and how does HOD prepare my children? I want a strong foundation not swaying or being influenced by other worldviews but being aware I would say is what I would like.

LynnH wrote:I have never used Sonlight, honestly I read too much about issues with the books to ever consider it. Plus read, read and more reading with no other follow up activities just isn't my son's cup of tea.

We have used HOD since Preparing and he will finish out his high school years with the US2 guide next year. HOD does just what I wanted a curriculum to do. In the younger years it gives a very solid biblical foundation going straight to the Word of God for biblical teaching. This continues throughout the years, but after they know the truth there are studies on things like Evolution and looking at other beliefs, but again they student is taught to look at all these things in the light of God's Word. Once in High School there is a study on World Cultures and Beliefs that comes from a Christian perspective and gives the student good solid information to understand other faiths and also then evangelize to others. The books in the High School guide do deal with some challenging content that is appropriate to the age, but includes things that are outside the word of God. Carrie again has the student look up verses to see exactly what the Bible says about the subject. I fell like HOD does a very good job of teaching students to think through things especially in the history and literature areas.

A curriculum can only do so much to draw someone to Christ and give them tools to deal with the "real" world. My job as a parent is to guide my children using good sound Biblical teaching and I feel HOD is one of the tools I use to do that. My son understands the sins of the world, he isn't sheltered, but he also has a good understanding of his belief's and why he believes what he does.

Thank you that helps clear up my understanding. I have to agree just reading isn't enough.

ttemple wrote: Ok thank you for your opinion. It sounds like it may not be for us after all. The truth is I like the books that they have as readers...well in the elementary years. The other thing is you tweak the highschool HOD for your reasons...but let me ask you is it sufficient and how does HOD prepare my children? I want a strong foundation not swaying or being influenced by other worldviews but being aware I would say is what I would like.

I think the question is what are your goals and does HOD move toward your goal? I would say hands down that SL is not the one to use if you don't want your children influenced. Look at their 27 reasons. I never agreed with "immunization" but I thought I could pull it off, until I found umpteen places Scripture could have been used and wasn't and I was constantly pulling from scripture and finding other Christian resources. I know nothing about the younger levels, except that my first hs experience was SL-Pre-K and one book made me slam it shut and sell it. I just thought how awful. Thankfully, DD didn't get the gist of it, but honestly, then why read it?

If you like the readers and there are some good books in SL, then you're able to use them with DITHOR as any book is useable with DITHOR.

HOD very much keeps you aware, but without delving into details, and has you pondering actions in accordance with Scripture. Scripture is integrated across the board and IMO, heavily in HS. Why not read sources that constantly show you God's plan? SL seems to be more about understanding other's hardships and how you can minister to them by reading all the details. But God so states not to get into details. We read one book that while a fun read, it was almost cruel due to the timing of the so called, joking around. It was really sad. But was completely void of any discussion of how the Lord would have handled this situation; it was odd. HOD is opposite of this. HOD would have pulled scripture first. So the books evoke discussion, but they seem backwards to me. I find the curriculum to lack a "relationship" with the Lord. I want to teach what is right in the eyes of the Lord, so my dd can see the wrong, which is HOD. I don't want her do wrong, because she didn't know "right" first. Does that make sense? I don't want to back peddle. The Lord says to teach them up in the way they should go, so they won't depart from it. Not teach them to respect others views and look later to see how wrong it was. SL is just opposite to me. The notes are more philosophies to evoke discussion, than to teach them the ways of the Lord. Scripture integration seems somewhere on the lower end of the teaching to do list. How does one keep themselves unspotted from the world (James 4:4) when you're told to respect others views and actions when they're are horrific? Culture or not, it's not God's ways. It goes back to what I stated above - respect the person, not the views. Then there's Deut. 12:30. God's not telling us to get into details. So IMO SL could be a scary scenario for a child's walk with Christ. I'm not willing to take that chance.

I'd urge you to read the forums and compare. You may get all you need to know. Education isn't always about academics. I want my dd's mind clean. What is read, can't be un read.

As an endnote, it's not really about curriculum though. How are you as a mom to teach and integrate God's Word and what are you goals for your children?

Out of all of the comparisons and reviews of these two programs on the web, I think this is hands-down the best review I've read.

Awesome job.

I've often looking longingly at their catalog. We tried their kindergarten and it was a flop for us. So much random jumping around on topics. Nothing seemed to relate to eachother.

I think the above description has totally weaned me from them. Like you said, you can use the readers with DITHOR if you choose, but the overall goal is not the goal I have for my family.

Thank you!

I appreciate all of the answers they have been great, it is exactly what I needed to hear. I have no idea what DITHOR means, I will assume it is a program within Heart of Dakota.

Everyone is speaking of Drawn into the Heart of Reading, a HOD program.
I don't have long to respond but just wanted to agree with everyone else's comments. We have used almost everything out there I think, including SL for 3 years. HOD is by far my favorite -for spiritual reasons and academic. We are taking a year off so I can have all 3 kids together for history one more time, but I plan to return to HOD for 8th grade and up after this year. (My oldest will be in 7th)
Hope you are able to peacefully decide what works for your family!!

I had this thread bookmarked.

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8920

my3sons wrote:But, I will say I would question any Christian curriculum that puts learning about the Lord in a separate time/subject of the day that can be dropped easily to leave a secular curriculum in its place. That sounds a lot like my experience with public school, and it's not one I remember fondly. It's not one I would want to relive in my own home with my own precious children with their own eternal future hanging in the balance. I hope this helps!

In Christ,
Julie

Amen Julie, completely wonderful post, and this portion is excellent; it is simply truth!!