Dictation woes

[Mom4Him]

Will you help me talk through dictation woes!? First off, I'd like to say that I see the immense benefits of using dictation! My 6th (almost 7th) graders are turning into great spellers - not perfect, but will only get a couple of words spelled wrong in their written narrations and other writing assignments. It wasn't too long ago that I wondered if dictation (and copywork) would ever work for them, but it does! And I really resonate with the philosophy behind it. All this to say that I'm NOT looking for a completely new spelling program at this time. I do reserve the right to change my mind on this.

I'm just not seeing the fruitation at all in my 5th (soon to be 6th) grade girl. She scored quite low in spelling on her standardized test (required in our state) - doing quite a bit worse than last year. I don't take much stock in those tests, but it was more of a confirmation to me. And I'd say maybe a fourth of the words in her writing are misspelled. She is very creative and artsy and fun and right-brained, and she loves writing her own things. But she HATES dictation. She does it without complaining, and usually only takes 1 or 2 tries to get through a passage. But as we're coming to the end of the school year, she's respectfully brought up that she does not like dictation. And it doesn't seem to be helping her in her spelling - as it seems her spelling is getting worse instead of better.

Maybe I need to hear again that dictation works???

Or - could it be partly how uninteresting a lot of the dictation passages are? I love how they gradually increase in skill, but the passages are random, and there's no direction - such as with spelling patterns or pointing out grammar (notice the silent letter, this is why the comma is there...)

I'm wondering if I found something she's interested in to use for dictation - she loves animals and gymnastics and right now is enthralled with the anatomy book in CTC - if she'd at least not hate it as much???

I guess I'm not even sure what I'm asking - maybe just if others can relate or have any advice.

I'd also love advice for my 9 year old boy. He hates writing SO much that dictation is a huge struggle for him. (He doesn't just "get it done" without drama.) Thoughts to help him?

Thanks, ladies.

[LynnH]

As far as your daughter just wondering how she studies for the dictation. Does she write any challenging words or any words that have punctuation after them on a white board before doing the actual dictation. This was very helpful for my son. With a right brain, artsy child I would let her write them in different colored dry erase markers, maybe even make each letter a different color. She could even write it with fancy lettering or make the punctuation marks stand out with a little artsy pizazz. This should help her brain remember the spelling better and it might make it more fun for her.

[Mom4Him]

Thanks, Lynn! I love those ideas!!!
Right now she really just looks it over and tries to get it over with as fast as possible. This seems to work for dictation, but not to get it to stick any longer than that. We're going to try this!

[frankesense]

Something to consider would be to choose portions of text from books that she is interested in and have her do dictation from those. This could help her enjoy it more. You can jump back into the dictation passages in the Appendix at a later time.

[MelInKansas]

Ummm... I struggle to think of what could be a spelling program that an artsy, creative child would enjoy. It seems to me that something more drawn out and rule based would be even more disliked and a struggle for both of you.

You say you already see that it works. If the child doesn't have any learning challenges to work through, you stick with it. Unless you and/or the child really need something different. Again the problem you describe, I don't think is solved by trying another program. Of course you are her mom and you know her best.

Obviously effort and retention are the issues, if you're doing it as it says. I'm not sure how you help her on effort or motivation. My artsy daughter hates Rod and Staff grammar. It's like torture to her in one way, and she always struggles with the oral review because it's so random, it just brings up things in the past and there's no context and she struggles with remembering all of the terms. I have started building a library of flash cards for her to help her with this, and I let her look over them before a review session. I think the writing and making it look nice is a great idea. My oldest likes to pace around spelling the words out loud to herself. I too have seen my children become good spellers. My artsy daughter is going into 5th grade and has started CTC. I would say at least 1/4 of her words in her own writing are misspelled. Sometimes I kind of worry about this, but I feel like she is learning and improving with the dictation. I think she would be a weak speller no matter what program we used. Dictation is easy to use and quick and will reap the results we are looking for.

[my3sons]

I agree with what's been shared already! Dictation is the best 5-10 minutes instruction in spelling we've found with all of our sons, whether they are natural spellers or not. With our son who struggled more with spelling, we did dictation every day of the week, rather than just 3 times a week. We also talked through how to study for each passage. As a now 12th grader, he rarely misspells things within his own writing. However, I credit not just dictation, but also the editing process HOD includes within the Appendix of each guide. We apply these concepts to all his writing, and before I meet with him to correct his work, he goes through the steps himself. The guidelines outlined in the daily plans for writing written narrations have also been my 'friend' in helping him to write and then to edit with the best spelling possible with more and more accuracy as he moves through the guides.

Dictation in HOD follows a systematic approach from Levels 2-8, and spelling is not intended to be an inspirational subject. Rather, it is a disciplinary subject, with a set procedure and a well thought-out path from start to finish. There are plenty of creative, inspirational subjects within HOD (far more than were at my disposal when I was in public school and was your little gal's age), and these are subjects your daughter will certainly enjoy expressing her personal thoughts, creativity, and interests! But, when it comes to spelling, it's just not going to be an outlet for that type of learning. So, perhaps an explanation of disciplinary and inspirational subjects with your dd would be helpful. A rotation of disciplinary and inspirational subjects (which Charlotte Mason advocated) really helped one of my sons, who tends to especially love creative assignments. Here is a link to a past post in regard to this that may help as you set up the routine of your dd's day (and it may help your discussion with her about this topic as well)...
Rotating Inspirational and Disciplinary subjects:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2125

However, I do want to reiterate the importance of the editing process HOD advocates in the Student Tips/Teacher Tips within the appendixes of each of the upper guides. Following the steps consistently each day, as soon as possible after the writing has been completed, was the other piece that helped my son become a good speller consistently. So, if she doesn't have her own copy of her student list for editing her work, I'd make her one and have her begin working her way through it each written narration/writing assignment. I'd also follow the 'spelling' steps as indicated in the teacher's list, starting with the one for the poorest spellers and moving towards the one for better spellers. This will help your daughter have the habit of first writing with the best spelling possible (as correcting many spelling errors is time consuming) and have the habit second of editing as carefully as possible, with use of the helps at hand (i.e. your assistance, writing to see what 'looks right,' the dictionary, the primary resource of reading used, etc.). This attention to detail will become her new habit, and soon, she'll be making fewer and fewer mistakes knowing she has the dual tools to spell words and edit misspelled words well herself. I hope this helps!!! Keep up the good work with her, and she will definitely come along - I've seen it in all 3 of our children given time and consistency!

In Christ,
Julie