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Thank you ladies for the rich blessing of your answers on my first thread to my many questions. I was so blessed by reading all of your replies.

I have a few more questions regarding the HOD science plan that I forgot to ask. I noticed that at least one mom, and maybe more, has a background in science on this board. I would love insights into this area.

HOD science looks very interesting to me. I like the variety I am seeing in it. I like the idea of not doing all textbooks for science. I do have three children who show much interest in science and science experiments. I have read various opinions on HOD science and would love the input from moms who HOD is truly working for:

*Is HOD science enough? I have read the opinion that the Rev2Rev and MTMM is not enough, but they look so wonderful. Do they teach science concepts they remember? It looks like MTMM would dive into the reasons opposed to evolution from a Creation standpoint. Is this as good as it looks?

*I noticed Physical doesn't start until 9th grade. I know I had it in 8th, but that isn't really necessary; is it?

*What benefits do you see to HOD science?

*What benefits do you see to HOD High school science? Are you finding it teaching enough science for High school? It looks like it has the necessary labs; yes? (We have to have labs in our state)

*I own Apologia General, but haven't use it yet. I always thought I would go that route. I just don't know at this point though. I think my kids would do fine with the text book, but it seems like the retention might be lower then I would like ~ learn, take a test, forget, and move on type thing. What do HOD moms think having taken a different science approach?

HOD seems like a program that would be best to do all of. So I am interested in knowing more about the science for the complete program.

Thank you again for all of your answers yesterday!

In Christ,

We aren't to the later guides yet, but I have looked at the science in HOD from beginning to end. It does start out very light in LHFHG and Beyond, so some times when you see people mention HOD science being light, it is a reflection of those two guides. HOD science is also definitely not textbook-based, so kids aren't memorizing a bunch of facts they won't remember a year later. Honestly, I remember very little science from high school. I remember a few labs and things I have seen since then, but most of it has been forgotten because it wasn't that memorable and I don't use it regularly.
HOD does do physical science in Rev2Rev with EE. But, for high school, Carrie followed what is common in many states as the "standard" science tack. Doing physical science in 8th grade is often the honors route. The same is true for math. Carrie doesn't technically schedule Algebra 1 until 9th grade. Many states actually only require 3 years of science, so what HOD includes is more than most.
As for the science being enough, another thing to consider is if the families were using the science for the intended age/grade or were beefing them up. Since Carrie is just now writing the third high school guide, many families have used Rev2Rev and MtMM for high school credit. The advanced option of EE used in Rev2Rev is fine for 9th grade physical science, but you would want to beef it up for a child beyond 9th grade. The science in MtMM as written is not high school credit worthy, although it is perfectly fine for an 8th grader or even for a 9th grader planning on taking 3 more years of high school science.

I was one of those moms who wondered about science when we were in the lowest guides, but as we have progressed I can tell you the science is just right! If you make a list of the concepts they learn each year, it is long. And like you said, living books are so much better in terms of holding interest and learning. We just finished our Olympic Mons experiment for science today (R2R), and I can assure you neither of my boys (younger couldn't miss out even though he was at "recess") will ever forget what Olympic Mons is. I can't speak to the older guides, but I am sure Carrie has continued in her path of a very enriched curriculum.

*Is HOD science enough? I have read the opinion that the Rev2Rev and MTMM is not enough, but they look so wonderful. Do they teach science concepts they remember? It looks like MTMM would dive into the reasons opposed to evolution from a Creation standpoint. Is this as good as it looks?

I can see that researching curriculum is very important to you. I am very similar in this way! As I mentioned in the other thread, I decided to try HOD because of the language arts program and their science. Before finding HOD, I was on an eclectic path but very much of a classical approach. I really didn't understand any other approach to homeschool. To be honestly, I thought all other approaches were sub par and that parents who weren't doing the classical method just didn't do it because they didn't want to work hard. God pretty much walloped me in the face with this thought very quickly in because we were completely failing in this method of education within 3 years LOL. So....I say all of this to say, that I think with the classical method, they are very focused on memorizing large amounts of information, introducing tough topics when the kids are younger, and they constantly push, push, push. When we found it lacked was fun and retention. For the year right before finding HOD, I had discovered MFW and they at least freed me of my previous belief system. I will be honestly, I was in chains, practically paralyzed with fear of not using the resources I had already planned to use as my kids got older. I seriously had planned out all 12 years with an extremely rigorous and aggressive homeschooling schedule! And after the first 3 years, I decided that I needed to throw my plans in the garbage because life wasn't working out. Scary!!!!! I started MFW in my 4th year of homeschooling and planned on using them for my 5th year but decided not to drop it after 7 weeks. I dropped them because it wasn't workout and I found HOD. I was looking for something that was very geared toward each child's level and I never felt like the other programs science was actually enough. After looking through HOD, I knew it was interesting and definitely enough. They use such interesting resources and tons of them. Plus - they are a lot of fun and the kids just remember so much of it. Also - I had previously planned to use Apologias science courses starting out. However...I ended up teaching the apologia sciences at my co-op for years. After that - I decided I wasn't a fan. Most of their books use house hold items for experiments. I felt like these experiments were things my kids had already done. Why are we then doing them at a high school level? Plus, most of the kids that take the course don't really retain most of what they learn. There is a lot of reading but not so much doing. Even for the younger years, I had always planned on using the Apologia Exploring Creation series each year. After using it for a year or two when my kids were younger, it was obvious that they weren't really remembering most of what we did. Plus, there still weren't that many experiences. And the experiments that they did complete were very involved with an unequal volume of learning that was taken away. With HOD, there are weekly scheduled experiment (at least in the elementary level - I am not sure of the high school levels.) The experiments are quick and effective. The experiments are written to the student as well. They are interested and really make science a lot of fun! I think you mentioned that you are looking at the level Preparing for one of your kids. That level really was so much fun for me because it was my first experience with using living books for a more challenging year of science and having my kids actually learn stuff. After we finished Preparing, I saw that we would be doing one of the Apologia Exploring Creation series books and was kind of bummed. However, Carrie turned that book into a fantastic experience because she modified some experiments and added some as well to make it more interesting. And with science - my oldest dd is in RtR but she still remembers things from Preparing. Before finding HOD, my kids didn't remember much from week to week, much less month to month or year to year. I have also heard of people saying they do add to science but I hear of it less and less. There is only so much time in a day and picking something and sticking with it should be enough. When my oldest did Preparing, she took the standardized test and scored in the 90th-something percentile that year. I was surprised she did so well since HOD is a Christian company and the test isn't! Last year she had a blast with the Land Animals and learning about the human body. She just started RtR and she loves the science already! For me - I am sold. I just love it and feel like my kids are really learning it! They are remembering it. It is all Christ centered and I feel like every year prepares the students for the next.

*I noticed Physical doesn't start until 9th grade. I know I had it in 8th, but that isn't really necessary; is it?

I think it just depends on the school. I think homeschoolers especially have been so ingrained to think that kids need to take Biology in 9th grade that it almost makes us wonder if a program is worthy of doing if they don't teach it in 9th. As I look back at my own education, I went to one of the top 100 schools in the nation for high school and they had you take biology in 10th, chemistry in 11th and you could take any science you wanted for 12th. I took physics. For me - as I look at my own kids, at first, I had planned they would do go the route of Bio in 9th, Chem in 10th and then 2 other advanced sciences or get dual credit with college for science for those last 2 years. However, once we started HOD and I saw how much my kids were learning and loving it, I have since thrown my plans out the window for this too! I am going to follow the plans that HOD set up and find it to be a great fit for us. Me pushing my kids all the time hasn't work out as well as I thought it would. Shocker, right LOL? Them learning things at a normal/average pace has been a MUCH better fit. In addition, when HOD does do a science level, you can be sure they go over the top with making sure that science is meaningful and interesting. Plus, the resources they are use don't always lend themselves to kids who are younger. For example, their algebra is honors level algebra. Unless your kids are tremendously mathy and is very quick, it would be a struggle for that child to complete that level in 8th grade. I am extremely mathy and took all my math classes early - including calculus in high school. But I really struggled with Calculus in high school - got an A but it was challenging. I never took honors math classes but maybe I should have done that route instead of just moving up and up and up. However, even if you take this honors level algebra it in 9th grade, you will still get to Pre-Cal as a senior and you can have them do a little bit harder math and they can still excel well at it. I view the science HOD very much in the same light. By them taking Biology in 10th, Chemistry in 11th, and an advanced science in 12th grade - the kids are more than ready for it, they won't be struggling, and it can be a more challenging program. I will say one thing about HOD that my husband loves. He says they pick out the best of the best of the best LOL. That is what I love about it too. They do the research, pick out the most interesting and excellent books/courses and then schedule them all for us to use. One other note - and as for the science course they list for 9th grade - my reviewer (my kids are reviewed annually by an independent teacher for reporting purposes) said that this course could actually be listed as two classes! It doesn't go as deep as the physics or chemistry courses do in the subsequent levels of HOD but it is solid and definitely will prepare them for future years.

*What benefits do you see to HOD science?

Well - me personally - I think the science seems to systematically cover topics making them deeper and deeper each time you see them. I loved that Preparing was a fantastic overview of topics. Then in CTC, it was animal and life science (preparing them for life science in MTMM and biology). RtR was all about earth science. This seems to be very much like the general science course that is taught by Apologia only much more interestingly done. The physical science course taught in RevtoRev is by far the most interesting looking physical science class I have ever seen. This would then take the place of the physical science in Apologia making this year way more hands on and interesting. In addition, also love that they study the lives of inventors as well. One thing I discovered in my house is how much my kids love reading about people once we started using HOD. I am excited to see that we will also be studying inventors weekly. This level prepares the kids for physics. This is the point where I feel like HOD inserted something new into the general thought process and progression of a typical junior high/high school science progression. In theory - you would see Biology after physical science. But that isn't quite what they do. In MTMM, they do a huge chemistry and biology study - it is done at a junior high / pre high school level but has great topics to prepare the kids for Chemistry and Biology to come. Then, in WG, they do this same type of prep again having the students learn about Physics and Chemistry very much preparing the kids for future levels of more high school Chemistry and Physics courses. For me, this specifically is what I do love about the HOD science. I feel like they do an excellent job of placing a foundation and building, building, building. My kids also love it and find it interesting. This means they retain it MUCH longer! And the experiments are fantastic. No program out there has such interesting experiments and I truly think God gifted Carrie in this area. She has put a ton of time into making sure these science levels have relevant and interesting material and each level is stacked with 35 interesting experiments (one per week). For me - it is perfect.

*What benefits do you see to HOD High school science? Are you finding it teaching enough science for High school? It looks like it has the necessary labs; yes? (We have to have labs in our state)
*I own Apologia General, but haven't use it yet. I always thought I would go that route. I just don't know at this point though. I think my kids would do fine with the text book, but it seems like the retention might be lower then I would like ~ learn, take a test, forget, and move on type thing. What do HOD moms think having taken a different science approach?

For your last two questions - I do feel like the labs are great. They are much better than the Apologia IMHO and Apologia is definitely a well recognized program. I will also say that the Chemistry book in the AM guide (the newest level published by HOD) does use the newest edition of the Apologia for Chemistry. The author revamped the book and he does include chemicals for science experiments in this new edition. In addition, he changed it to a more living approach. I am not sure what science HOD will schedule in their final guide as they still have yet to write it but my guess is physics. For me - I did teach apologia at the co-op that my kids go to and it is very much like you said - read, take a test, forget, move on. The kids don't necessarily like science and the experiments were not very interesting. Most of the experiments were things my kids have already done. As a parent, I found that to be unacceptable. I have also heard parents complain about how boring the general and physical science books are. Since there really isn't a lot published out there and without doing tons of research or putting something together alone, I think many people settle for it. It is an a la carte program for eclectic parents, it gets job done fully and it is financially appealing. With HOD, Carrie has done an excellent job of compiling many resources to bring together a very educational, hands on and interesting science level each year. I said in the beginning that science was one of things that lead me to try out HOD. I have not been disappointed! We have loved it immensely.

One last thought - I know you are researching and researching and researching. For me, I practically read the entire website for HOD and many past threads before giving it a chance. In addition, I am a researcher by nature and researched practically everything out there. Before finding HOD, I was always wondering from product to product, vendor to vendor, this to that and so on and so forth. Now that I have found HOD, I have no desire to stray. I have found that each subject is done with such balance and yet we gain so much more fun and learning out of this program than I could have asked for. I always wanted my kids to have fun and like learning but I also want them to be challenged and to learn a lot. After my first few years of homeschooling - I thought that idea was an oxymoron. No longer do I feel this! HOD has blessed this house more than anyone could imagine. I am glad that I gave my fear up to the Lord and that he gave me His peace. I firmly feel like God led me to this company and I am so grateful he did. And by saying yes to the Lord, we have seen blessing after blessing after blessing in this home because of choosing this path. While Language Arts and Sciences were the driving factors that lead me to try HOD - I have stayed for many more reasons that. But I will still stand firm in that - we do still love the language arts and SCIENCE !!!!!!

This is our first year in HOD and my older son is doing Rev to Rev for 8th grade... just to say about the Science in it, it is physical science and ... HE LOVES IT!!! Every day he has told me he is doing the science box first!! He said it is the best science he has ever done and that is from my non school loving child!!!

I have just started HOD this year as well with our 11 and 12yo girls. We have used several other sciences, including Apologia, Real Science 4 Kids, and Sonlight science. We are in Res to Ref science now, and my girls have never enjoyed science more, they have never asked more questions, they have never dug deeper, or retained more than the past 8 weeks of science. I am flabbergasted when they pipe up while reading, "Hey Mama, did you know...?", when they ask me to look something up in relation to what they've read, and when they have started telling Daddy interesting tidbits or inserted a comment in everyday conversation like "Hey! That's the same as...!" They understand the material, they are completely engaged, and excited to be learning it. The way HOD weaves notebooking and reading assignments, as well as experiments, is just amazing. I have not been very impressed or emotional in my reviews of the different materials we have used in the last 8 years of homeschooling, but I am sold with HOD.

Thank you so much ladies for all of the HOD reassurance!

We have used some of the science programs mentioned, and I love hearing about how the kids retention and learning increased with HOD science!

Nealewill, Thank you so much for all of your sharing on both threads. I can really relate to much of what you have shared. The LORD is really putting on my heart to make this school year a year of transition towards a more structured, independent, planned home school. My oldest will be in 7th a year from now. HOD looks like the kind of education that I have wanted my children to have and that I haven't managed to give them myself or through other curriculums. Christ centered learning with disciplined study is exactly what I have wanted them to have and what I have been trying to achieve. I am definitely not achieving it on my own, which the LORD has been opening my eyes to.

I absolutely Love what I am seeing in HOD. The plans look great. The science looks so interesting to me, and I like hearing that it is promoting real learning and enjoyment.

I have really enjoyed reading this board. Both present and past threads have so much mom encouragement on them.

Thank you Ladies!