Is dictation enough for my struggling speller?

[shaffer96]

My 10 year old daughter really struggles with spelling. I have used several curriculums with her and she still has such a hard time. I feel like nothing has worked with her. My question is about the dictation in PHFHG. Will this be a good option for a struggling speller? Will dictation improve her spelling or should I look into something else for her? She is well below grade level in this area and is also a reluctant writer so I know she will already struggle with all the writing she has to do this year. I want to build her confidence with something this year and it seems like weekly spelling lists have not helped her retain skills. She does have some mild dyslexic tendencies, but we have never had her tested. So, should I do the dictation with her? Is dictation good for struggling spellers or just for average to natural spellers? Thanks in advance for your help!

[Mumkins]

We do dictation and All About Spelling for my child who struggles with spelling. Part of post removed per board rules by board moderator.

[Nealewill]

I have two kids who struggle with Spelling significantly and I have found that lots of reading, copywork and dictation have been fantastic. My son has auditory processing disorder and he can't hear the softer sounds in words. My oldest dd has mild dyslexia. Both have gained greatly by following the plans for HOD. I am not sure if you have used HOD in the past or not but we started 2 years ago. With my kids, I did use AAS up until last year. AAS worked for my oldest to a point but it was a complete waste for my son. However, with both kids, we have used the HOD plans to a T and I have noticed a huge improvement over last year. My oldest now makes very few mistakes when she writes. My son is getting better but he has a long ways to go. I was seeking to figure out what to do about my son and his poor spelling earlier this year. He starts Preparing too. I have decided that I am going to have him dictate his narration to me on day 4. I will write it down with correct spelling and punctuation and he with then copy it. He will independently write out his writing assignments from the poetry and his writing from the science questions. I also have read that kids who struggle with spelling need to copy things in print more. So I am praying about how much cursive he will do until his spelling improves some. Now....in the guide it specifically tells you what kids should copy in cursive. For me, I am contemplating having my son only write the things in cursive that are from the Bible and that are from the Drawing and Writing through History book. This will give him a lot of great cursive practice. But it will also give him a few more opportunities to copy things in print as well. Again, I am praying about it. But all in all, dictation is great and I have been very happy with it. It is sometimes difficult to take the first leap. But I am so glad I did! If you decide to try dictation, make sure to give it some time. It make a take up to a year to notice a marked improvement. I would say that for us I noticed an improvement within 6 months or so. And the improvement I noticed was in her general writing. I was very surprised that I was finding a lot less common and sight words spelled incorrectly. Those were her major weakness before and no longer seem to be nearly as much of an issue.

[shaffer96]

Thanks Ladies! We did do AAS and it was a disaster! How did you find out your son had a processing disorder? I think something like that may be going on because it seems like unless I break down the word by syllable, she sometimes doesn't hear certain sounds and even if I do that she doesn't always hear them right away.

[Mumkins]

My daughter has visual perception and auditory processing issues. Visual, we had an assessment with a vision therapist. Auditory, the Dr referred her to the auditory clinic at a hospital.

[Nealewill]

I also recommend seeing a specialist. I went to Children's hospital for test. He actually has never formally be diagnosed with APD because at the time of his testing it wasn't a full on recognized disability. We didn't do anything with my son until he was 5 but he went to speech therapist, a language therapist, occupational therapy and a psychologist. There is no easy answer or quick fix for it. For kids with auditory issues, visual memory is what they use primarily. That is why dictation seems to have worked so well for us.

[Jennymommy]

I would add that the dictation level should be easy so dc can focus on the visual aspect of the passage rather than the length of sentences and punctuation. You don't need to worry about grade level so much as attention span and frustration level...this should be a confidence builder

[Music Mom]

We used AVKO's Sequential Spelling for my dyslexic son. I did it a bit differently than the instructions outlined. Part of post removed per board rules by board moderator.

I don't know if a student who is not dyslexic or has no learning challenges would necessarily need or enjoy this format. My daughter was SO excited to do spelling, and she begged me to let her do it too. After a few days she had had enough. She is a natural speller and was bored to tears. She has never had formal spelling, though she has heard us talk about spelling rules - a lot.

My son is not a natural speller and never will be, but Sequential Spelling really helped him internalize a lot of the spelling rules and build his confidence. I highly recommend it to anyone who has a child with dyslexia or other issues that make spelling difficult. Dictation is probably going to come fairly easily to a child who is a natural speller/writer. If a child has dyslexia and/or dysgraphia, all the dictation in the world is not going to fix that. It very probably will make them even more frustrated.

If you have not had your child tested, that is probably a really good idea. It's good to know what you are dealing with so you can learn what you need to do to deal with it.

Part of post removed per board rules by board moderator.

[Carrie]

Ladies,

Just a quick reminder about the board rules outlined in the "Welcome" found at the top of the Main Board. The excerpt below is timely.

This is the only "official" Heart of Dakota" board moderated by us. Since this board is sponsored by Heart of Dakota, we ask that you do not post links to other companies, other boards, or other products, or promote them. We also ask that you do not reference posts, threads, or articles from other companies or post for the purpose of discussing or promoting a product that is not scheduled within the HOD guides.

The reason I share this is that it is confusing for our board readers to feel that they must add an outside spelling program to HOD in order to cover this area for their child. From our perspective, and from years of trying other approaches both in the classroom and in our homeschool setting, we feel that studied dictation is the best way to approach spelling. We have not landed on this particular approach lightly, and while you may differ with us philosophy-wise on your own approach to spelling, the HOD board is a place to discuss how the HOD guides handle each subject area.

The Charlotte Mason method of studied dictation is a method that must be tried for at least a year in order to truly see the fruit of it. It is a slow burn that pays big dividends in the long haul. It actually does work well both for natural spellers and for kiddos who struggle with spelling. We get to hear so many updates from families who use HOD, both by email, on the message board, and at conventions, so I can say with confidence that even kiddos with learning challenges such as dysgraphia progress well with studied dictation. We hear from so many families who have kiddos that were very poor spellers who are thrilled to finally be seeing some progress through studied dictation.

The method that we use in the guides is very important in the success of studied dictation. The consistent use of studied dictation also makes a difference. There are many posts on the board about studied dictation, so I enourage you to search and read them. If you do try studied dictation, I would advise you to give it at least a year. I would also encourage you not to continue with another spelling program at the same time, but instead to use studied dictation as your spelling program. I think you will be surprised at the progress your students will make. It is a method that has many benefits in the long haul for all types of spellers.

If anyone has time to post some links to threads on the board about studied dictation that would be so helpful! It is a method that takes some time to grasp, and I can understand the hesitence in letting go of a formal spelling program, as I had that same hesitence.

With my oldest son, in order to tell whether studied dictation really worked, I tested him in Spelling Power at the beginning of the year to give his spelling a "level" and then used only studied dictation all year. At year-end, I tested him in Spelling Power again, only to discover that he had jumped several levels in spelling from using studied dictation (while not using Spelling Power)! This made a believer out of me. My oldest son only used studied dictation after that and has graduated high school.

My next 3 kiddos have all only done the spelling/dictation within the HOD guides. While my second oldest son is definitely a natural speller, my other boys vary on their natural spelling abilities. My oldest is a great memorizer, but needed dictation to carryover his memorization of words to his writing. Even though my second oldest is a natural speller, he needed the studied dictation to focus on proofreading and accuracy in his writing, as well as learning to listen carefully to a single reading of the dictation passage prior to writing. He has benefitted greatly from studied dictation in that regard. My third little guy has a very hard time with spelling, yet he is consistently progressing (although it take much more time to see the fruit with him). My last little guy is still in Bigger in List 2, so we will see how he progresses. He is a terrific copier but needs to learn to capture the word images in his mind. Studied dictation will be of help to him too! I share this to help you visualize how studied dictation could be of benefit to your own kiddos.

I look forward to discussing studied dictation further, to hearing from those who have used studied dictation regularly through HOD, and to seeing any board links about studied dictation that may be of help to those considering studied dictation for their own kiddos.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Mumkins]

Oh Carrie, I truly do wish I could let go. But, my DD is a horrible speller. She has VPD and APD. I like what we use because when she makes mistake, I'm able to remind her of the rule. It's been. Very slow road, but there's progress. I can see how dictation would help as I don't think she's pulling all the sounds out in a word.

[Rice]

I'll add my testimonial to dictation.

My oldest (now 13) is a very poor speller. For qualification, I don't think he has any disabilities in the area of spelling, though he does struggle with some dysgraphia tendencies and many symptoms of EFD (Executive Function Disorder: trouble with organization, transitions, following step-by-step instructions, filtering out distractions, etc.) which affects his spelling in the area of not paying attention.

We were with another CM curriculum (AO) previous to coming to HOD last year. We had used dictation for about 2 years previous to coming to HOD and it was showing a little improvement but we were not very consistent - some weeks we might not have done it at all; others we might have done it 3x/week. Switching to HOD we followed the guide and were SO much more consistent (it wasn't an extra to remember to add, but something scheduled in for us). In fact, in the last few months of this year we switched to doing it every day right after snack, all 3 kids that are old enough at the same time. The change in DS's written narrations is amazing. Many of the simple words that he spelled incorrectly for years he is starting to spell correctly, fairly consistently (instead of never correct). Even more complex words he is starting to try out spellings other than the simple phonetic (one example I can find is he started the year with "thru" and later tried "throuh" - forgetting just the g, but beginning to recognize the right spelling pattern!). He still has a long way to come, but he has 5 more years of dictation before I will set him free! At least by then he'll be able to pick out the right word from the spell-check drop down menu from his spelling attempt (sometimes it's so far off the computer won't suggest the right word)! He will never have stellar natural spelling but the skills he will have (already is gaining) will be what he needs to succeed.
One side-note: he still hates it! LOL. But he's starting to accept it as a matter of course.

My next DD (11) just really learned to read this last year. I finally started dictation with her this spring and I can already tell that she is benefiting from it. I can tell that her dictation is supporting her continued skills in reading, and vice versa. (She's in the same level as her older DS, and gaining.)

My third is a natural speller and at 9 is in a higher dictation level than his older siblings (though a higher guide, as well - he taught himself to read and is above grade level). He's the kind that probably wouldn't need a spelling program, but is learning lots through dictation (not just the odd spelling word but especially things on the punctuation end of things - which he wouldn't learn from spelling anyway - it's supporting his studies in R&S).

I love that dictation can be so personalized. With my DD starting dictation we did just the top two passages on each page until she started being challenged (the beginning ones were too easy). It's a perfect level to instil confidence yet still challenge what she already knows and grow her skills. It does seem slow but I know there are payoffs 1-2 years down the road, because I've seen it in my DS.

I also love that it is freeing - I don't have to pay loads of money for a separate curriculum that I don't know will have results or not. Getting a good score on a spelling test isn't an indicator that spelling in real life (written narrations, etc.) will improve. I also don't have to worry that I've made the right choice. I trust the CM method (we've been using it 6 years now) and I've seen that although it doesn't follow the Scope & Sequence of most PS schools or even other HS methods, it has the long term results I'm looking for.

Blessings as you continue to consider what is right for your daughter,

[shaffer96]

Thanks everyone! We are going to give dictation form the PHFHG guide a try!

[Nealewill]

I think you will be very surprised! As I had mentioned I was skeptical myself. But it has really turned out to be the best thing we could have done