LHFHG Combined or Not?

[Blessed Jess]

Hello!

I have been doing a relaxed kindergarten year with my dd1, who will be 6 in August. We've used most of All About Reading 1, some formal math, and her handwriting is right on track. She definitely needs to continue with phonics as she has not yet covered silent e and started to become anxious when we reached compound words and longer practice stories ("Mommy, how long IS this story?!"). DD2 turned 4 in December and just recently decided she wanted to start phonics (I'm not pushing it), and she is blending very well and beginning with short vowel CVC words. In September, she will be 4 and 9 months.

In planning for next year, I'm having trouble deciding whether I should put them both in LHFHG, even slowing it down to 4 days a week, or keeping them separate and starting dd2 in LHFHG and big sister in Beyond. I know I could use the first grade math and science options with her, but would I also need to purchase the Beyond guide for spelling if we go that route?

For the most part, they are always involved in what the other one is doing. They are best friends, and I can see benefits to reading Storytime together and doing the gentle science experiments and Bible stories. However, as soon as dd2 started reading while dd1 was complaining and grumbling at phonics time, a little competition started and I can see that my oldest doesn't really want her little sister catching up or surpassing her (it may happen anyway and we will address it when the time comes). For those of you who have had children close together (ours are 16 months apart), do you find it easier to combine and just move the older ahead in her math and phonics so they can share a guide, or do you keep them separate when one seems upset that a younger, very enthusiastic sibling is "catching up?" I don't want to hold my oldest back, but she also seems to get very distracted still when I try to read anything that doesn't have pictures. She's my mover and shaker who likes to color or walk around during read alouds, while dd2 will snuggle on my lap and listen to The Wizard of Oz.

In Christ,

Jessica

[Nealewill]

My kids are 1.5 years apart. I have experienced very much of what you are describing with my middle and youngest child. My thoughts initially are that your 4 year old would probably be fine in LHFHG. However, as they move up in level, that is where it gets very difficult to place a child that isn't in the age range into the guide. Last year I did Beyond with my youngest two and my youngest started the guide at 5. She did fine during the entire year. However, the volume of Bigger was significant and I knew that I didn't want to push her up another level. Plus, once they get to Preparing, they are required to read all of their science to themselves and read half of their history to themselves. I knew that I would not have my youngest do this at 7 years old! So this year instead of letting her advance with her brother to Bigger, I put her down a level into Little Hearts. It was an excellent decisions.

My thoughts are that if you want to keep them together, I would LHFH this year with both of them. Then next year I would put them both in LHFHG. I think you will be much happier with the progression of skills being taught and never feel ill prepared for each upcoming year with concern that your youngest won't be ready. I also have found, with HOD, that I really like keeping my kids separate. You would think this would be challenging but I have actually found it very easy and pleasant to keep everyone separate. I am not going to lie, there are times I do think that having my younger 2 may be great. But then a lot of the time, I like that I can just focus on one child at a time and that they aren't comparing themselves to each other. They are moving up in abilities each year. And they are always learning something new and fun. I like that each child does their own thing and that they are placed according to skills only. The skills, IMHO, are what make this program great. Each level focuses on a certain set of skills and each child grows and grows in these skills so that each level is a smooth transition.

[bethelmommy]

I combined my oldest 2 for LHFHG and Beyond before I had to split them in Bigger. I don't regret it at all and would do it again. They are 18 months apart and are best friends. They love doing everything together. Even now, they still do storytime and DITHOR together. I think starting 1/2 speed LHFHG with full speed 3 R's for your oldest would work well and when your youngest is ready, move up to full speed for both. Then you could do 4 day weeks for LHFHG, Beyond and Bigger to let your youngest mature into the guides. My only caution would be to make sure your youngest is fully able to complete the work in a guide by the last 1/3 or so in order to be prepared for the next one. Also, if the gap in their skills widens, do not hesitate to separate them if needed. The only thing I would have done differently in retrospect would have been to split my kids up right away once I knew my youngest could no longer keep up in the Bigger guide. Instead, I held my ds back to 1/2 speed for a few months while I waited for dd to mature when he was more than ready to move ahead on his own. HOD truly works best when children are properly placed whether that be combined or in individual guides.

[Blessed Jess]

Thank you ladies for sharing your experiences. I've been looking over everything and had a few more questions come up that I hope I didn't need to post in a new thread.

1. Do most of you tend to view Beyond as a second grade guide, and use LHFHG as a first grade with appropriate phonics and math added? In reading on these forums, I'm noticing more and more people tend to not start LHFHG with a new five-year-old (unless it's in the case of combining, at half-speed, as I'm considering).

2. Partly due to leaning toward CM philosophy and not rushing headfirst into formal schooling, partly due to an extremely difficult season from October to January for our family...let's just say for this Type A, former English teacher Mama, our first year of homeschooling has not been at all what I envisioned. I firmly believe that God knew that and we are exactly where we need to be, but that doesn't mean I don't have insecurities about how my daughter's K year has gone, what we "could" have accomplished, etc.

That being said, she is doing initial and ending consonant blends, plurals, and some compound words, and we are a unit in with Singapore Essentials K Book B. Would you recommend starting her in LHFHG next year, no matter what? If we hope to stick with HOD (oh, the peace I yearn for with choosing a curriculum and staying content), isn't it a good idea to start at the beginning so she doesn't miss any more skills or incremental parts?

3. Around what age do children typically start with the Emerging Readers? I know this depends on ability, but is it typically around age 7/second grade? This is all new to me, and I taught middle school English, not phonics. I'm guessing we might be able to start them sometime during first grade when she has completed phonics.

4. If most of you don't put a 5-year-old in LHFHG, should my youngest do LHTH first on her own, adding in beginning reading and Singapore K book A when she's ready? Or will LHTH be too easy for her?

Thank you for your help! Sometimes it brings so much clarity to just type out my questions and organize my thoughts. I'm hoping to make a decision soon!

In Christ,

Jessica

[Nealewill]

I don't actually think of the HOD as "grades" anymore. It is all about level and ability. There are a lot of people who do use LHFHG for 1st grade but it can easily be used for K as well. I have a couple of new homeschool families near me and they are using for it K. I am actually using it for 2nd grade because I used Beyond last year for 1st and I didn't want to bump my youngest to Bigger for 2nd grade - when we started the year, she was 6 and she wouldn't have been in the age range. There are though many people who school 4 days per week and they use it only those 4 days and extend the first three levels of 4 years instead of 3.

As for the emerging readers, they just need to complete a basic phonics program. I am not sure what you used this year for phonics but I would say they are probably mid 1st through 2nd grade books. Each child is very different. My youngest read them when she just turned 6 and my son when he was 7.5. All kids are different.

And it sounds like keeping your kids separate would be a good fit. So I would staggar start your kids. I would start the one in LHFHG first and get that child comfortable in that guide. Then I would move to the younger child and start them.

[farmfamily]

I would suggest you try combining them in LHFHG, if they like to do things together. I think it will be easier for you & it sounds like LHFHG would be a pretty good fit for both your girls. I combined mine when they were in second half of LHFHG, in Beyond, and Bigger. Doing Beyond with the two of them together I think was my favorite year of homeschooling so far. We had such fun with the activities. It has been good this time with my son by himself, but not the same because I am always in a rush trying to get everything done with everyone else. Combining is wonderful while it works: fun for the kids & I think easier on the parent. However at a certain point it no longer worked well for my girls. They became more competitive and bickered during school time & my oldest was ready to be more independent. She didn't like waiting on her little sis. I had always kept her 3Rs beefed up (she really placed at least one guide higher than her sister all along - probably more like 2 guides higher!), and so when it came time to split, she seamlessly skipped a guide (Preparing). She is really thriving now in CTC & I am enjoying spending time with little sis one on one in Preparing. But I did enjoy combining while it worked for us. If I were to do it over again, I would definitely do the same thing.

If you find combining isn't working well for you, you can easily split them up later. But if you're lucky you may be able to keep combining for the long haul.

If your oldest is ready for spelling you would need to get the Beyond guide for that. If you're doing Singapore you may even need it for hands on math activities. When I combined, I always purchased the next higher guide for my daughter so that I could beef up her language arts. You could stick with the kindergarten level for the science. I think it goes better with the LHFHG guide. I own both & as I recall I liked the K one better. The first grade one doesn't have much more info. As far as the younger one catching up with her sister's reading, if that is going to happen it'll happen whether or not they are in the same guide for Bible/History/Science etc. Just do their reading lessons separately & don't make comparisons. In the combined subjects, when asking questions & doing narrations I made my two take turns so that the younger one got to answer half the questions.

[bethelmommy]

Have you looked at the placement chart linked on the main HOD page? If not, I would start there and decide where each child places individually. If they place in the same guide, then combining will probably work well. If they place in seperate guides, then that will probably be your best bet.

We started LHFHG when my ds was almost 6 and dd was almost 4 1/2. Technically they were in (Pre)PreK and K when we started. They had already finished 2 PreK programs together and they both placed in the LHFHG guide. Dd was an early reader/writer. Ds was more average. I think we started half speed with ds doing reading, math, and writing daily. Eventually we moved to full speed but took lots of school breaks as needed so that we finished when ds was just past 7 (2nd grade) and dd was just shy of 6 (official K year). It was very easy to school with both of them in the same guide since they were both well placed. It is definitely a bit more hectic now having them split in Bigger with fitting in more subjects each day, but my kids are happier with their respective work loads and expectations.

The Emerging Readers start at about a 2nd grade level, so you will want to complete a phonics program up to at least that point. Then you will need the Beyond guide for the questions in the appendix that accompany the ER books. Kids take off with reading at a variety of ages. As long as you are making forward progress (even if it's slow), you are doing fine.

Let us know how your kiddos place on the placement chart and then we will be better able to answer any other placement questions you have.

[MomtoJGJE]

I combined my second two in LHFHG at about the same ages and abilities. It was perfect! For about 2/3 of the guide. Then Grace took off, but Julianna pretty much was still a good fit for the guide. I looked at the placement chart again because it felt wrong to keep them together when Grace was clearly past LHFHG at that point. She fit solidly in Beyond. But I didn't want her missing things in LHFHG.... I ended up doubling up days and occasionally, when she wanted to, we did a day on Saturday or Sunday. At that point I went down to half speed with Julianna. I told her she was more than capable of going full speed, obviously, but it was time for a break for her. We school year round, so they were used to doing less school every once in a while as a break.

Anyway, all that to say that I'd go ahead and start them combined, but go slowly. I wouldn't worry about purchasing the Beyond guide for spelling. You can just start spelling whenever you start the Emerging readers if you want to go that route. Or you could just wait until they are in the Beyond guide for spelling. I'd keep them full speed 3Rs but half speed all the other stuff for a little while. Let your youngest grow/mature a bit. You could then keep going 4 days per week to allow a little more age to happen.

And if it happens that you end up needing to separate, doing back to back guides is not hard if they are properly placed.

[Blessed Jess]

You have all been so helpful! It truly seems like it could probably work either way; it will just depend on whether or not my oldest will think she's having to do something "younger," to be with her sister (lately this seems to be an issue, but probably just a phase).

As far as the placement chart goes, dd2 (who will be 4.8 in Sept) could do either LHTH or LHFHG, but seems ready for phonics instruction (doing great with CVC words) and can write her name and follow instructions very well. DD1 is very capable of writing sentences and seems to enjoy copywork, LOVES formal math regardless of (ahem) me trying different programs, and will hopefully be finishing phonics by Fall if we continue through the summer. We're on Lesson 40 of AAR 1, and she mostly needs confidence and practice with fluency. It frustrates her when she has to sound everything out, yet she knows lots of CVC words by sight and gets annoyed staying at that level. I think she just needs a gentle nudge that she can do this and the only way to move on from Pat the cat sat on a mat is to keep going!

I'm really torn. I can see us combining, yet if we don't I worry about back to back guides and dd2 saying, "Hey, I watched her do this science last year!" So maybe I will really try to have quality one on one time with each of their guides, yet let them hopefully enjoy helping each other and sharing what they are learning.

Any other perfectionist moms out there? It makes me so afraid to choose incorrectly and "mess up," but I know His plan is perfect and if I trust Him to rule over our homeschool, they will know everything they need to know and see that they have a peaceful, content mommy.

In Christ,

Jessica

[StephanieU]

We haven't gotten there yet with the younger two, but my plan is for them to be about 18 months apart in the guides. My son will start LHFHG in January (2016), shortly after his 6th birthday. My youngest will start close to her 6th birthday (summer 2017). That will give me some time between finishing LHFHG and starting it again, which I think will be nice. You could do something similar, beginning LHFHG in August with your then 6yo and then starting LHFHG with the younger one in January after she turns 6.
The thing I love about HOD in the early years is you can customize the 3 Rs while keeping the history, science, storytime, and length of school day age appropriate. So you can continue working on the math and phonics at their speed. We will probably try LHTH again in May when my oldest starts Bigger half speed, trying to finish the Bible and devotional by the end of December. Then the younger one will do LHTH again with all of the other boxes over a year and a half before she starts LHFHG.

[Jennymommy]

Hey Jessica, sounds to me, as I read between the lines, that you are thinking separate guides for the girls. Little clues about their personalities make it seem to me that separate guides would be a good idea, simply because the choice tho share and do activities together would be more about fun than about competition Another thought I had was in regard to the phonics. I wonder if you lightened up on the "program" for a bit and look for fun books to just read, maybe she would feel more encouraged? Or maybe take a trip down the candy aisle looking for phonics words and a treat I had to do this one at the health food store, but it was fun Your older dd may well take off on her own, especially when she gets to the fun books in Beyond, and as time goes on, you will want her to be appropriately challenged

[bethelmommy]

If you do not have clear direction one way or the other, it is probably best to start with them combined and split them up later if it doesn't work out rather than the other way around as that might be hard on your oldest's self esteem. It is easy to beef up LHFHG with extra copy work and spelling/grammar from the Beyond guide. If it is clear once you start that your oldest is ready for more than that, then you just move her completely into the Beyond guide. As StepanieU stated, your girls will really just be combined for the history, bible, rhymes in motion, science & storytime. The three R's will be taught separately at their level.

A little trial and error is OK. Once you find the best fit for you and your children, I am sure it will be easier to relax and enjoy the year.

[Nealewill]

Any other perfectionist moms out there? It makes me so afraid to choose incorrectly and "mess up," but I know His plan is perfect and if I trust Him to rule over our homeschool, they will know everything they need to know and see that they have a peaceful, content mommy.

I am literally insane! LOL. I have found a lot of peace in my choices though with HOD and with splitting my kids up. I do know that it may look like I am not doing back to back years but I actually will be once this year is over. My youngest and middle child were combine last year in Beyond. After the year was over, I knew I didn't want to increase the work volume for my youngest so I put her in Little Hearts and then moved my son to Bigger. My plan is to put my youngest in Bigger next year with her big bro in Preparing (and actually I am slowing my oldest down a little bit and she will still have 4 weeks left of CTC to finish). I guess starting next year I will have 3 kids back to back but it will only be for a month or two at the most.

I find that my kids don't actually care about repeating activities but I also don't necessarily seek out letting my kids do stuff together either. I try to persuade them to do their own thing and not to participate too much. But I also don't tell them "no." I just try to redirect at times. With my oldest though - she had some very fun projects this year - like make a sling like David had (and a target), played a card game and board game she made, and we had our Olympics. I just don't think stuff like that gets old. The kids will love it no matter what. Honestly, I finally had to "lose" that sling of David's because I was tried of getting pegged with marshmallows! For the science and history projects, it won't be a big deal if you repeat it. The kids may remember it but it is still fun the 2nd time around. Plus, as the kids go up in guide, they are then also doing the "learning" part of the activity. For example, my son is doing Bigger this year and there are lots of hands on activities. My youngest has participated in a few but she didn't read the science text nor did I focus on her knowledge of why something worked the way it worked. The only book I think she will probably remember word for word when we repeat it is the book on John Audubon. But she won't care in the least when we read it next year, she absolutely loved that book. I can say this with confidence because I came from MFW two years ago and my kids had heard me read the American Pioneers and Patriots book with their program. Last year those two did Beyond. It uses the same book. My kids remembered 3/4 of the book. But they didn't care. All I heard almost every day read, right at the start, little voices saying, Ooooh, I love this one! Every time! So I don't think your children will really care if they hear something again. I might just think about keeping the story time combine for both of them until you get to Preparing. In Little Hearts they use the Burgess books but my kids LOVE them! I have ordered in more than just the ones HOD recommends because my youngest loves them so much. Other than that, I would do the levels as written. If you separate, you may come to point that they aren't 1 level apart too. Many people take 1-1.5 years for Little Hearts, Beyond and Bigger because these programs are written to 5 days a week. The higher levels are written to 4 days a week.

As I read a lot of things your oldest does, it does make me wonder if she is ready for Beyond. I could be wrong. Also, I used AAR as well for my middle child because he has auditory processing disorder but I am wondering if you would be happier with something like the Reading Lesson. Also - it is very normal for kids to struggle some with sounding things out. It isn't a big deal. Your child sounds very similar to most kids I know. My older two kids had reading issues - oldest with mild dyslexia - but both needed very intense reading programs to help them succeed. With my youngest, she pretty much taught herself to read. IMHO, if your child isn't in need of a special reading program, than you probably don't need to finish AAR. Just my 2 cents