R&S in the later years

[The2youngs]

I asked this on one of the FB boards, but feel I was either misunderstood or perhaps didn't explain myself well, so I'm calling in the cavalry (all you lovely HOD moms)!

Currently, I'm using English Lessons Through Literature for our grammar, instead of R&S. My sons are just beginning Beyond (6.5yo) and halfway through Bigger (<8yo). I like the gentleness at this stage and the very CM flavor of it. I know Carrie allows for different LA choices, which I appreciate, but I also have read that she works hard to balance the work of R&S with the writing assignments scheduled in later guides. What I want to know is at what point this really happens, as I'd like to consider whether moving to R&S at some future point would be worthwhile for our family. In early guides, it seems like it's just "a lesson per day." In which guide does the R&S lessons begin to be altered on some way in accordance with the writing lessons?

Hopefully, I've explained myself well enough to gain some clarity...thanks so much!

[LynnH]

It isn't so much that the Rod and Staff lessons are altered, but that she omits some of the writing program lessons if she feels it has been covered in Rod and Staff, so if you aren't doing Rod and Staff you could possibly miss out on some of the writing topics. Also starting in CTC grammar is not done every day. It is alternated with the writing program that is scheduled, therefore you only get through half a Rod and Staff book a year. I hope that makes sense.

[my3sons]

LynnH did an awesome job of answering already! We are completing R & S English 7 this year with our high school student, and I have been thankful for the balance of LA within not only the HOD guides but also across all of the years of moving through the guides. HOD includes written LA CM skills of dictation, copywork, multiple forms of written narrations, etc. and these skills are incorporated across multiple subject areas each year (including science, history, storytime, etc.). HOD also includes plans for writing curriculum every year, with lessons starting with creative writing in PHFHG, and moving onto formal writing programs every year after. R & S English completes the balance of LA skills. I personally would find it very difficult to replace what R & S English teaches with just 1 resource. I'd more than likely have to use multiple resources to adequately cover the depth of what R & S English teaches. And so, each of the above mentioned components fills a need, and all work together in tandem to foster strong writing skills. I have been thrilled with the results in our sons, especially our oldest ds who has had more years for me to see results. As this post is addressing R & S in the later years specifically, I've copied a portion below of Carrie's response in another thread that had a question about upper R & S English...

Within the HOD guides, we are scheduling it so that students complete English 6 by the end of grade 8. We will schedule English 7 and 8 to be completed in high school, doing half of a book each year.

Our reasoning on this pacing is as follows: Rod and Staff is a very rigorous grammar program, but what is even better is that it is also a very full-coverage English program in areas reaching far beyond grammar instruction. So, when comparing the scope and sequence of Rod and Staff 6 to the standards required in the area of English/grammar for middle school, you will find that Rod and Staff 6 covers standards found in most freshman and sophomore English/grammar courses. When looking at the scope and sequence of English 7 and 8, you will see that they cover all needed high school standards (and much beyond that)!

Rod and Staff originally only went through English 8, until about 5 years ago when they added English 9 and 10, mainly to address the area of writing. Since Rod and Staff does not use another writing program outside of their English books, but rather has writing integrated within the English, to address the "upped" level of writing being demanded of high school level students they needed to add other levels to their English program. Up through English 8, there is still an equally strong focus on grammar and writing, and other skills too. But after English 8, the focus shifts mainly toward writing through application of the learned grammar concepts. Since our HOD guides will use a plethora of other writing resources to address writing, as we are already doing in the guides from CTC on up, the best balance (when using an HOD guide) will be to follow the progression we're scheduling for grammar within our guides. Otherwise, you will find your child's school day to be a very heavy load in the language arts area, but especially in the area of writing!

While you may easily follow a different grammar route, if desired for your own family, within our HOD guides we are looking for the meshing of all English and writing together, without overloading the student in any particular area. There is also a need to keep the time spent on grammar instruction, for both parent and child, in balance with the rest of the day's subjects as well. We feel the plan I've outlined above, will address all of these needs and still allow families to utilize a very rigorous grammar program all throughout their child's years (without burning out parent or student).

One other thing to note is that many high schools across the country right now are not teaching grammar at all in high school, so the plan above will far exceed what is required for college admission and will prepare a child well for SAT/ACT testing. Much of the ACT/SAT is not distinctly grammar related (and there is no actual grammar section on the test), but rather there are quite a few of the subtests that are English/language arts related. So, doing Rod and Staff throughout the high school years keeps those skills fresh, while allowing students time to apply their grammar/English knowledge to their writing across the curriculum within the HOD guide.

We definitely would not recommend skipping a level of Rod and Staff English, as each level builds well on the previous one. You can see the reasons for completion of Rod and Staff 8 as the goal, and the reasoning behind the pacing we've selected for the HOD guides. We would only recommend completion of Rod and Staff 9 and 10 for those families who are not using any other formal writing program throughout the high school years, because those families will need the writing lessons contained within 9 and 10. Since HOD will schedule a formal writing program each year of high school (along with all the writing we require throughout the other parts of the guide), English 9 and 10 will not be needed when using HOD as written. As my own son is currently using English 7, we are finding wonderful application of the concepts from his English lessons throughout his writing time. Rather than grammar being a subject to get through every day, we have time to actually apply what he is learning to his written work. This is truly the goal of his lessons and the goal of Rod and Staff English. From English 7 on up the lessons can get v-e-r-y long, and we want to be sure that these are kept in balance with the rest of our day, allowing us to finish what we start by steadily working on the higher levels throughout high school.

One more interesting sidenote to consider is that Rod and Staff is a Mennonite company, and the Mennonite students who school with Rod and Staff typically complete their schooling by grade 10. This is why you will notice that Rod and Staff does not have curriculum beyond that grade level. These students also do not usually attend college. So, this shows you what an accelerated time table the publisher is considering when labeling their materials by "grade level".

If it were me, I'd not want to start any later than R & S English 4, and really 3 would be better. Writing lessons begin then, and the skills they teach are important and often not covered in other English programs geared more toward solely 'grammar.' HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[The2youngs]

Thank you, Lynn and Julie! I really appreciate your time in responding. I will certainly take a closer look at both R&S 3 and 4 and see what might fit for our family.