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I know the topic of beefing up MTMM for ninth grade has been covered a gazillion times but here goes . I've searched the board and found lots of posts on the topic and I have to piece it all together, which became overwhelming after the first hour . If my son continues the course he is on, he will complete MTMM as a 9th grader. From the posts I read, it seems the history is enough to be considered credit worthy if I add the American Testimony DVDs. Would this give us only 1/2 credit of US History since it is only the second half of history? Rev to Rev would have been done as an 8th grader, so no credit for that, correct?

If the history in MTMM is 1/2 credit, where will we get the rest of the US History credit?

Also, would we need to add 1/2 economics and 1/2 government credits to MTMM, or is this covered in later guides?

According to the posts I read, we would also need to beef up the science and 3Rs. This feels like a lot of changes, which makes me wonder if we could skip Rev to Rev and just do a quick overview with some other resources during the summer. Then do MTMM for 8th grade so we will be on track and just do the high school guides as written. I know skipping a guide is usually frowned upon but has anyone skipped Rev to Rev or MTMM? Skill-wise they seem pretty similar so I am tempted to skip Rev to Rev, particularly since dc could handle Rev to Rev now .

The last two high school guides are American History. So, if you use MtMM for 9th grade, you will still use one of the high school US History guides. Assuming you do the first one of those, you will get 1/2 credit of US History and 1/2 credit of government in that guide. So you would only need to add economics to MtMM or sometime rise in high school (MtMM is the logical place).

From the research I have done on HOD, it does seem like Rev to Rev and MTMM are of a similar level. I think if your child is ready for MTMM for 8th grade (as long as you check the placement chart and your child placed there), then I personally would skip a level and try to get on track for WG for 9th grade. I am not so good at modifying myself. So if your son placed in MTMM, then you could definitely do that next year for 8th grade and not have to worry about modifying anything for high school credit.

StephanieU wrote:The last two high school guides are American History. So, if you use MtMM for 9th grade, you will still use one of the high school US History guides. Assuming you do the first one of those, you will get 1/2 credit of US History and 1/2 credit of government in that guide. So you would only need to add economics to MtMM or sometime rise in high school (MtMM is the logical place).

Just to be sure I understand, the history in MTMM plus the first year of US History in the high school guide ONLY amounts to one credit? That seems like an extraordinary amount of work for only one credit. When I was in high school , one semester = 1/2 credit; two semesters = 1 credit. If I am understanding correctly, my student would complete two years of US history (1 in MTMM and 1 in the 3rd high school guide) and only receive one credit??

Good morning! Good conversation here - I did some searching to find Carrie's advice on this, and I think this will help...

Typically most states require a year of world history, a semester or a year of geography, and a year of American history. Then, they also require a semester each of economics and government. So with that thought in mind, you could do Rev2Rev for freshman year and award .5 up to a full credit in American history. If you added more government to it, as there is some government in Rev2Rev already, you could potentially award .5 credit in government.

Then, you could do MTMM for your son's sophomore year and award the other half of American history for credit (up to a full credit). If you added more economics along with it, as there is some already in MTMM, you could award .5 of a credit for economics too.

Then, for your son's junior year, you could do our new geography guide and award a full credit for geography.

In his senior year, you could do our one year overview of world history guide and award a full credit for world history.

So, provided your ds did RevtoRev in 8th grade, and it sounds like he did, you can use the above guidelines to decide what you would like to do based on government/economics. You can certainly award 1 full credit for American History for his MTMM year for 9th grade, as he did RevtoRev previously. So, in general, this would be the plan for history...
9th grade: Amer. History 1 - 1 credit
10th grade: WG 1 credit
11th grade: WH 1 credit
12th grade: Amer. History 2 - 1 credit

HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote: So, provided your ds did RevtoRev in 8th grade, and it sounds like he did, you can use the above guidelines to decide what you would like to do based on government/economics. You can certainly award 1 full credit for American History for his MTMM year for 9th grade, as he did RevtoRev previously. So, in general, this would be the plan for history...
9th grade: Amer. History 1 - 1 credit
10th grade: WG 1 credit
11th grade: WH 1 credit
12th grade: Amer. History 2 - 1 credit

Thanks for the reply, Julie!

Ds is due to begin Rev 2 Rev in 8th grade, which he begins in June. Just to be sure I understand, we would complete Rev 2 Rev as written. Then the following year he will begin MTMM in 9th and I would need to add to the economics already written in the plans. He would then have 1 credit in American History and 1/2 credit in economics. Correct?

Would I need to add "The American Testimony DVDs" from the extension package?

Now how about science? Do I need to add Chemistry 101 DVDs? Honestly, I don't even know what those are or who is the publisher. I just read it on one of the older threads about beefing up MTMM . Will these DVDs along with the science as written truly be equivalent to high school chemistry?

Would I also need to beef up English? He would be in Rod and Staff English 7 in 9th grade. Is this sufficient or would we also need to add a composition component?

Then there is literature. He would have completed DITHOR 6/7/8 at the end of 8th grade. So when he begins MTMM for 9th, what will we do for literature?

This feels like a large amount of supplementing . Honestly, I do not want to spend so much on supplemental material in attempts to make a junior high program worthy of high school credit. This is my main reason for considering skipping Rev 2 Rev and just doing MTMM for 8th and WG for 9th. I have a great set of books that tell history in story format so we could read over the missed time period from Rev 2 Rev during the summer before 8th grade (we school year 'round). Sure, this would not give us the depth that HOD does but he would get that year of US history again during the high school guides. Does this sound crazy? According to the placement chart, ds can handle Rev2Rev now in 7th. What would be the effects of skipping Rev 2 Rev and going into MTMM for 8th?

Thanks!!

If you do Rev2Rev as an 8th grader you will be doing some of high school work in 8th grade. The science in Rev2Rev states it is high school worthy. If you do history as is and combine with MTMM history you will have 1 credit. That is not changing history, but using as is. If you add to science in MTMM the Chemistry 101 it states on their website that it is high school credit worthy. It is more than just watching a DVD.
So if you do Rev2Rev in 8th grade you could have the following credits:1 credit high school physical science and 1/2 credit American history as an 8th grader. That allows wiggle room going into high school.
We have added American Testimony DVD to make it more interesting, but not necessary as we are in age range of guide. I think Rev2Rev would be an excellent guide for American history for high school credit. The 50 states and Signers have been interesting and informative.

Are you able to attend one of the conventions that HOD attends? I am wondering if I think completing Rev2Rev and skipping MTMM might be a better fit personally. I am not sure. One thing that I would do before you make any choices on what you want to do is wait until you are practically finished with this year and see where he places on the placement chart for next year. Also, just curious, is he completing the extensions this year as part of R2R? If he is completing the extensions and doing them well, then I think he would be more than ready to complete MTMM without the extensions.

I had read a thread a while back that talked about whether or not to place a child in the high school guide and have them skip or not skip a level. The entire thread was very interesting and may shed some light on things going on in your mind. It is kind of a longer thread but Carries comments are in hot pink. So if you want to jump to that section of the thread first, that will probably be the most helpful. viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13690&p=97830#p97830

Here is another thread that I found where someone talked about skipping Rev to Rev and going straight to MTMM for 8th grade: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15361&p=108140&hili ... MM#p108140

On the flip side, here is a post from someone who tried to skip MTMM and it didn't work out so well for them: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15156&p=106778&hili ... MM#p106778

I think you know your child best. One reoccurring theme that mentioned in several other threads I read is that you wouldn't necessarily want to skip a guide unless your child isn't being challenged by the guide he is in. Is he being challenged and completing the extensions? If he is being challenged, then I would move him to Rev to Rev next year with the extensions. If he isn't being challenged, then I would skip Rev to Rev. Also, I know I mentioned that I don't like to modify things but I actually have already modified Little Hearts quite a bit and it hasn't been to big of deal. Last year when I came to HOD, I put my younger 2 in the level Beyond. My youngest did it fine but she wasn't in the age range for Bigger this year when I moved my son ahead (she wasn't in age range for Beyond for that matter either when I started her last year either). So I ended up modifying Little Hearts to include more writing similar to Beyond and even Bigger, and she does the same reading, grammar and cursive as her brother. It actually hasn't been a big deal at all to modify it. I think if you did end up modifying MTMM it wouldn't end up being that big of deal either. If it were me, I would consider all of the reasons why you would want to skip a guide or not but then not take into consideration your concern about modifying MTMM for high school. I think if you do that, it will give a clear path on what you will ultimately should do. And if you do end up doing MTMM for high school, you can just pencil in your guide the modified plans. From the one post I saw above, you wouldn't need to modify much honestly. You would basically just be adding in Economics, Chem 101 DVDs and then using DITHOR with more challenging books and maybe adding in a foreign language. You may also want to get the WG guide if you do add in Spanish so that you can use those plans as written. But I think if you go the route of modifying the guide for MTMM, it may not be as bad as you think.

Carrie and I just talked through your questions, and we both think that the best plan is to continue RTR for 7th grade, to do RevtoRev for 8th grade, and to then look at the placement chart at that point to choose either MTMM or WG for 9th grade, whichever is the best fit overall. This will give you only one decision to make, and it will be clearer which placement is best when you reach the point of your ds entering 9th grade. I will still answer your questions below though, as MTMM can quite easily be done for 9th grade should you decide at that point it is the best fit for ds.

Ds is due to begin Rev 2 Rev in 8th grade, which he begins in June. Just to be sure I understand, we would complete Rev 2 Rev as written. Then the following year he will begin MTMM in 9th and I would need to add to the economics already written in the plans. He would then have 1 credit in American History and 1/2 credit in economics. Correct?

That is correct. Carrie had this to say that makes it clearer how you would do this...
In looking at Economics, you will want to keep in mind that you are typically looking for only 1/2 a credit (or a semester) or Economics for most state (and college) requirements. With this in mind, you would either want to add the Bluestocking Guide and its related material to MTMM OR do Notgrass Economics OR do R.C. Spoul Jr.'s course including his book Biblical Economics OR do Sproul Jr's DVDs (Economics for Everybody) along with the supplemental reading material suggested in the booklet that comes with the DVD. If you use Hazelett's, you would most likely add that to the Bluestocking Guide option. Otherwise, the other options will be enough without Hazelett (especially now that R.C. Sproul Jr. has added a guide along with Economics for Everybody DVDs to help add supplemental reading material to get the hours needed for the credit). If your state does allow the Finance OR Economics option, then you could also entertain the idea of doing Financial Peace University with Dave Ramsey in place of Economics. With our son, we actually had him do both Economics and Finance just because we thought both would benefit him. We did Notgrass for Economics and Dave Ramsey and Larry Burkett both for finance. Economics and Finance were not both required for our state. Our son earned a 1/2 credit in each course.

Would I need to add "The American Testimony DVDs" from the extension package?
The target age range of MTMM is for ages 12-14 years old, and the extensions are for 9th and 10th grade. So, yes, he should do the extension package, and he can then claim 1 full credit in American History. The clep test for American History itself is in 2 segments, so you doing 2 years of American History in 2 segments (i.e. American History 9th grade in MTMM and American History 12th grade in the upcoming AH guide) is just fine!

Now how about science? Do I need to add Chemistry 101 DVDs? Honestly, I don't even know what those are or who is the publisher. I just read it on one of the older threads about beefing up MTMM . Will these DVDs along with the science as written truly be equivalent to high school chemistry?
Carrie had this to say in another thread that should help...
You can use much of the Missions to Modern Marvels science plans "as is" with a child in the extension range by using Ellen McHenry's Carbon Chemistry in place of Evolution: the Grand Experiment and the Genetics & DNA kit. This would give your high school child a full year of chemistry, and Carbon Chem. is designed for use after "The Elements", so it would work well in place of Evolution: the Grand Experiment. Additionally, you could also consider adding the new Chemistry 101 DVD on each 5th day, watching a segment each week (and also possibly pursuing some of the suggestions for lab work that come with the CD). This combination along with what is already scheduled within the Missions to Modern Marvels guide would raise the coursework to a high school level science while still keeping the living books approach.
Just google Carbon Chemistry by Ellen McHenry, and Chemistry 101 DVDs by Wes Olson. If your ds is not going into a STEM career (science, medical, engineering), this science is fine for his 9th grade year.

Would I also need to beef up English? He would be in Rod and Staff English 7 in 9th grade. Is this sufficient or would we also need to add a composition component?
The first half of R & S English 7 is what is scheduled in 9th grade HOD anyway, so he'd be right on track! The composition component in MTMM of WWTB 2 is already high school credit worthy, so you would just do that as scheduled in MTMM.

Then there is literature. He would have completed DITHOR 6/7/8 at the end of 8th grade. So when he begins MTMM for 9th, what will we do for literature?
You would use DITHOR for 9th grade with high school titles. We have posts on this and can help when you get there.

There are many options for science that I won't get into here, but basically you could do the science from any guide alongside whatever core guide you are using if you want to just use plans for 9th grade as they are written. There is also the option earlier on of having ds do the Advanced EE Kit in his 8th grade year for a high school credit in physical science. However, let's not jump the gun! We'll know better when that time comes! I hope this helps, but just remember, doing RTR for 7th, RevtoRev for 8th, and then reassessing to choose either MTMM or WG for 9th is a wonderful plan moving forward!

In Christ,
Julie

Nealewill and I must have been posting the same time! It looks like we all had similar ideas!

In Christ,
Julie

Julie,

Thank you SO much for taking time to help me!! I copied and saved your post for future reference, as I know I will refer to it frequently. Maybe beefing up MTMM isn't as scary as I expected it to be .
After reading your post and going over the links posted by Nealewill, I decided it is perhaps best to continue with Rev 2 Rev for 8th grade. Below is a quote that really cemented my decision:

"In the end the decision of whether to use a certain guide or not really comes down to the best placement all around. However, in placement it is very wise not to overlook maturity, work habits, independence, and commitment to a longer school day! If a student is needing extra time in any of the 3R's, I would never bump that child forward past a guide. If a student struggles or is a bit behind in math, I would definitely keep in mind then how much time math will add to a child's day as math gets harder as you go up! This additional time needed to complete math each day, would make the high school guides much longer than we intend. So, I wouldn't bump a child struggling in math forward either. I would also never bump that child forward in the sciences (as the sciences become driven by math skills in high school). If a student did not have strong, independent work habits, or a willingness to commit to longer school days, with an increased work load (then I wouldn't bump that child forward either, or you'll be dragging him/her along for years to come). If a student has health issues or family issues or commitments in many outside areas, I would make sure to balance school accordingly so that it doesn't add additional pressures that would overwhelm the student. I could go on, but you're getting the picture that placement advice is affected by so many personal factors! This makes it impossible to give pat answers."

Math has always been a struggle for ds, and we are currently working on some heart issues regarding work habits and commitment to school. Skipping a guide would only accelerate our issues and make it more difficult to home school him. So, Rev 2 Rev it will be!

Ok, so now it is time to figure out science for my other ds that loves math and science . I love this time of year!! It is when we evaluate and research so we can place our orders for the following school year. I get two Christmases so it is a win for me .

I am so glad for you! Sounds like this will be a great placement and plan for you oldest son

I also love this time of year. And I just placed my order for next year even though we won't be ready to start for quite some time. I must admit, I don't research too much anymore. I spent a TON of time research math and spelling right before we switched to HOD. Because I haven't using HOD from the beginning, I had used someting different originally. However, as the prior companies programs wind down and they come to a good switching point, I am moving them over to the HOD recommended products. For me, it has actually been fantastic to no longer feel the need to research much anymore And I used to be a complete curriculum junkie. I still stay apprised of many of the different curriculums available. I do still love to go to the homeschool conventions. But I no longer pine for different stuff. I think what drew me in to HOD in the first place was that most the books and resources they currently use I had already wanted to incorporate into my homeschooling years in some fashion. In addition, the treasure I have discovered with HOD is the methods they use to teach using those books. For me, they just make everything super easy on me so I no longer need to dedicate much time research and planning. I just love it

Happy researching to you

So glad to hear it, mothermayi! HOORAY - now on to more happy pondering!

In Christ,
Julie