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We took a BIG leave from HOD. BIG. Like over a year. But it was ok. I think it may in some way have served us but I'm still waiting on exactly how. LOL Anyway....

We left off with dd having almost finished Beyond and ds about half-way through Bigger. Bigger was giving us a major fit. He was having trouble with the history book selections, staying on task, and overall general attitude and that in turn led to a very frustrated and worn-out mama. So we put it down and took a break. We are now at a time where I need to decide "what's next" and I've been searching, searching, searching and even more praying, praying, praying.

The other night, lying in the dark and trying to quiet my own voice so I might hear God's, I had the thought plunked in my head .... "HOD". What?? Is this my idea or His? Then this flood of memories hit me: washing our house like the Hollanders, playing the Indian games, hauling an egg in a container of flour all. over. the. house. Good memories. Heart warming memories. Really? Is this "what's next"? I wouldn't even know where to pick it up again. I feel like we're totally out of whack with the system of it.

So here I am once more humbly seeking the advice of so many beautiful voices here. Where do I begin?

DD :
8.5 yo
just started R&S Math 4 (a recent switch from CLE)
No formal grammer - only copywork everyday

DS
10.5 yo
just began R&S Math 5 (another recent switch from CLE)
did complete R&S English 2 from his former Bigger days and has been doing copy work or free writing everyday

I recently (last week!) started DD in R&S English 2 and gave DS R&S English 3 just because it's what I had here (don't know if I should bump him to 4 or not).

I have all the Bigger supplies and feel DD could easily go right into that. I would order new storytime and DITHOR books because they were all read over this last year+. She could keep on with her math and English.

DS is another animal all together. He isn't a motivated student. At all. Sees no point in trying to excel and thinks school is nothing but drudgery. I know there are heart issues here and we've been trying to work on it but it is a process. A slow process. I don't know if I should put him with DD in Bigger with the extensions (either have him start fresh with her or maybe even start him where he left off) or if I should place him in another guide. If another guide, which one? Preparing? CTC? He is a smart guy, but he does seem to have some issues following and sometimes understanding directions, and then there's that whole I-don't-like-or-want-to-do-any-school thing. And why he has trouble following directions or paying attention to details blows my mind because if you were to see some of his drawings they are SO detailed! Down to the shape of someone's/somethings eyebrow that conveys the meant expression. But give him multiple-step instructions and he's lost. Yeah, he's been my challenge.

I'm still throwing up LOTS of prayer about this decision but I'd love to hear what some of you may think about our situation and what might work best. I know Bigger and Preparing are pretty teacher intense and I must also mention that I'm going to start my littlest, DS 5 in LH after Christmas so I'll have 3 students at that point. Thanking you all in advance!

In gratitude,
Whitney

Have you looked at the placement chart recently to see where they place? Bigger sounds like it might be a good place for your daughter, based on age, having basically completed Beyond,a nd what you said. But, I would also check the placement chart to confirm that. For your son, really look at the chart with fresh eyes. With his heart issues, you want something that isn't super easy but also isn't too challenging. So, getting him perfectly placed would be best. Also, consider how he would feel working with his sister, if combining is possible. Some siblings work well together, but others don't. He might like it because he knows he is having to do basically the same things as her (so no way he can say it is too hard), but it also might frustrate him to be with his younger sister...

Thank you StephanieU. Looking at the placement chart I do see things like:

*he has been using Pictures in Cursive by Casey Queen so he is use to copying sentences in cursive and doing 3/4 to 1 full page of copy work or free writing in print
*he did well with the Bigger dictation passages before - we got to about #40 or so in the manual
*he spent this last year reading selections from the Robinson Curriculum list and the HOD reading books I bought originally so I would place him at least 4/5, probably 5/6

Ironically, being with his sister isn't too competition-filled. He's perfectly content to let her steal the show. It's when he has MORE work/HARDER work than she does that he starts comparing and complaining (ie, "why do I have to do x,y, and/or z and SHE doesn't??" "I never finish at the same time as she does!" )

Oh, and one concern is which guide he'll start high school with. I don't know if I need to plan according to that.

I just wanted to share our journey. We did LHFHG in 1st, BLHFHG in 2nd. We started Bigger in 3rd and began having all kinds of problems. Not from HOD, but because, as we eventually realized, our dd has dyslexia and a moderate delay in math. So, the two most important areas, reading and math, were not improving. I have made some impulsive decisions in these last two years, including stopping Bigger about halfway through, then in 4th we started Preparing and then ended up stopping that. In between I was trying other things and even had her to an education specialist, who recommended the Barton Reading System for my dd's dyslexia, which worked for a while and then we stopped that because she became frustrated having to remember all the spelling rules that came later. I believe the Lord led me to HOD in the beginning. So, was it a wise choice to stop HOD? I don't know. I was desperate for something that would help her with her reading and math, so I focused on those things. Now, in 5th grade, I am seeing some improvement in these areas. I honestly didn't think we would ever come back to HOD. Not because I didn't like it. In fact, just the opposite. But, I just didn't know if it would work for her. But, then someone shared how they were using CTC for high school because of the child's learning disability. Then it hit me. When I would look at HOD I was thinking of CTC for my dd and became overwhelmed just looking at it, knowing it would be too much for her. I then realized that I could take her back to an earlier guide, which it turns out that she does fit nicely into Bigger. After the holidays, I plan to begin Bigger once again. I will start at the beginning, but may skip over some of the science that we already did, and supplement until we get to the science books we didn't cover the first time. My dd has already had cursive instruction, so I will have her do copywork. Other than that and the science modification I mentioned, we will do the other boxes as is. I think she will get more out of the history now, so this guide should prove to be a good fit for her. I am happy to be returning.

I don't know where your children fit, but if Bigger was not working with your ds the first time, maybe that would now be a good starting place. I agree that you should look at the placement chart. Don't go by your child's age or grade. Put them where they fit, even if it is in the same guide. If you worry about where he will be in high school, then he will not be placed appropriately. Hope this helps.

I think it does sound like Bigger would be a good fit for your DD. For your ds has he done much writing other than copywork? My gut says to put him in Preparing, but doing Preparing and Bigger puts you with the 2 most teacher intensive guides. CTC is a big jump up from Preparing and really requires the dc to take more independence in several areas. The directions that he needs to follow in CTC are also more complicated so he might find that frustrating. The writing requirements are also more. Preparing is a great guide and Grandpa's Box is an amazing book that might give you some opportunity to discuss some of those heart issues since it tells the gospel story from Adam and Eve on up through Christ.

psreit - thank you SO much for sharing your story. Wow! I see so many similarities with our situation. HOD was never the problem. I have always LOVED the program and thanked the Lord daily for having it but we were experiencing problems with comprehension and attitude. If I look at the guides by age, I get a sinking feeling about putting him in RTR or CTC when I see the amount of work and independence required. You said it perfectly when you said "overwhelming". I've never had him tested for any disabilities but I've always suspected that there is "something" there - nothing painfully obvious sticks out but there just seems to be some sort of slight delay. I probably should have him tested but I just want to be careful how it's presented if we ever do. And I see what you mean about not placing according to future high school plans. I think I would be certainly setting him up for major frustration.

LynnH - thank you for your thoughts! Preparing is one that I am considering for him but it concerns me about doing that in addition to Bigger and LH. And the grumbling I'd hear about how his assignments are harder than dd's and why should he have to do all that stuff? When I mentioned to him that if he did Bigger again I would be adding an additional reading assignment for him (the extensions) he started piping up. But I reminded him that he is older than dd and more is required of him. He calls himself 5th grade and dd 3rd grade. But honestly, (and I'd never say this to him) he's actually more like higher 4th grade because I started school with him btw 6.5 and 7 yo. But I did tell him that if he wanted to be in 3rd grade again I would make the work even-steven. He quit complaining about it....for now.

eta: his writing over this last year has been a page of copy work or free writing. With the free writing he could write a page about anything he wanted. I would then go through and mark spelling mistakes, grammer mistakes, and make any suggestions that might improve the "sound" of the paper. He would then correct spelling and grammer and maybe take some of the suggestions.

My ds came home after 4th grade and we did Preparing and it was a perfect fit. It was technically his 5th grade year, but after 2 years home we talked and came to the conclusion we would slow the junior high years down and he wouldn't start 9th grade until he was 15(he turned 15 May of this year). He is now in the WG and doing much better than I ever thought he would. His writing has taken huge leaps this year. He still has his struggles with things like answering the deeper questions in the lit book, but if we would have tried this guide last year it would have been much harder. I just think he needed an extra year of maturing. I say all that to encourage you that it is best to start where he places and just focus on getting him independent in each guide as outlined in the guide. Preparing will start gently with written narrations and also some other guided writing. This can be much more challenging than free writing. I really do think that Preparing would be a good fit for him based on what you have shared. I would just keep telling him that he is older and more is required of him. Maybe give him more choice in choosing the order of his boxes than what you give his younger sister? This could be a perk of being older.

Hi!

I don't have a lot to add except to say that I am very familiar with Bigger with extensions and it is A LOT of reading!! My ds did Bigger a few yrs ago and struggled with the history selections also. Currently, my dd is in Preparing (10 next mth) and we r LOVING it!!! Even though my ds is doing CTC, he wants to sit in on our "grandpa's box" story times. And my dd BEGS me to start each day with Grandpa's box . I wonder if the workload would be lighter for your ds doing Preparing instead of Bigger with extensions? I know there is more writing in Preparing than in Bigger. I can't speak too much with how Preparing is well into the guide since we are in the very beginning (like Unit 1 LOL) . So I am not one of the more experienced moms. But just thought I'd throw in our (brief) experience...

Thank you LynnH You've given me some good food for thought about perhaps using Preparing for him. I am encouraged by hearing your personal journey with you own DS. I do think my ds is similar in the maturity department - he just needs a bit of extra time.

Charika30 - I was wondering about that history extension and how much extra work it might be. Your post was so timely! Thank you! I wonder too if Preparing might be a better workload than Bigger with extensions. I keep going back and forth between putting him in Bigger or Preparing. He would fit very nicely in Bigger now and I think the standard history readings would go much smoother this time around. Preparing I think could give him more of a challenge......I just need to figure out if it's the kind of challenge that would encourage growth or the kind that would frustrate. I don't want to end up in another situation like we did before in which we end up shelving the program because it's too much. And I know I keep saying this but how much is it going to be on me running Preparing for him, Bigger for DD, and LH for DS?

Whitney,

It's good to "see" you! Thanks for taking time to share your journey with us. The ladies are such good listeners and are so patient at talking through options. I am thankful daily for this board and for the wonderful women who share so much of themselves!

We all know that each family is different and that finding the right fit can be a process. As we work through this process, a couple of things keep coming to mind when I'm reading this thread. If I am mis-reading, I apologize, but I'm feeling your concern over getting your plate too full and also feeling your concern over how hard to push your son without it becoming a daily battle. Be encouraged that these are concerns we all have! But, I do think it is wise to address those as we look at a potential plan for your year.

From what you've shared, it sounds like your daughter will fit well in Bigger. Since you have been away from HOD for a bit and never really got through Bigger, it is possible that your son could also join your daughter there. This would help with your workload, making it more manageable, and would also leave you some options as to how much to push your son.

Bigger with extensions for your older son, with the addition of DITHR and Rod and Staff English sounds like it might be a good step up for him. Doing DITHR and Rod and Staff English daily (as scheduled in Bigger) sounds like it would up the writing component for him quite a bit. As the year progresses, having him also do the twice weekly oral and twice weekly written narrations (even if it is just a paragraph) with the Bigger Extensions would continue to raise the bar. But, you could work up to that, simply beginning with having him do the Extension reading and oral narrations first. The Bigger Extension Pack also has once weekly science readings with brief questions to answer which would up the level of science.

If you combined your kiddos in Bigger for most things, I think your daughter could do English 2 (as scheduled in Bigger) and your son could do English 3 or English 4. It sounds like your daughter could do the Emerging Readers or DITHR 2/3, depending on her level, and your son could do DITHR 4/5 (with the 4/5 Boy Set of books).

One thing to ponder is that it helps to do a guide that still allows enough time for you to do English and DITHR as scheduled, as these are two of the 3 R's (making them so important). If you get yourself spread too thin, you might find that you are regularly skipping DITHR or English, or both. I do think combining your kiddos in BIgger would allow time to do that.

If you did pursue the combining in Bigger path, and later felt your son needed to move forward, you could always assess again and move him forward if needed. In addition, there are many skills taught in Bigger that are realized in Preparing, so your time spent teaching and training the kiddos in Bigger is always worthwhile. I do think pondering doing both Bigger and Preparing is a pretty heavy load. There are mamas that do pull it off and have it go well, however they have settled in for longer days, knowing those two guides together can be a challenge. I'm not saying that you could not pull of Bigger and Preparing, but I'm more inclined for you to try combining in Bigger first to see if this might be a fit. If it is, it would be a blessing to you as you journey. Sometimes what is best for a season or a year changes the next year, but for this moment in time these are my thoughts.

Anyway, just a few thoughts to ponder. Feel free to share your own thoughts too!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie wrote:Whitney,

It's good to "see" you! Thanks for taking time to share your journey with us. The ladies are such good listeners and are so patient at talking through options. I am thankful daily for this board and for the wonderful women who share so much of themselves!

We all know that each family is different and that finding the right fit can be a process. As we work through this process, a couple of things keep coming to mind when I'm reading this thread. If I am mis-reading, I apologize, but I'm feeling your concern over getting your plate too full and also feeling your concern over how hard to push your son without it becoming a daily battle. Be encouraged that these are concerns we all have! But, I do think it is wise to address those as we look at a potential plan for your year.

From what you've shared, it sounds like your daughter will fit well in Bigger. Since you have been away from HOD for a bit and never really got through Bigger, it is possible that your son could also join your daughter there. This would help with your workload, making it more manageable, and would also leave you some options as to how much to push your son.

Bigger with extensions for your older son, with the addition of DITHR and Rod and Staff English sounds like it might be a good step up for him. Doing DITHR and Rod and Staff English daily (as scheduled in Bigger) sounds like it would up the writing component for him quite a bit. As the year progresses, having him also do the twice weekly oral and twice weekly written narrations (even if it is just a paragraph) with the Bigger Extensions would continue to raise the bar. But, you could work up to that, simply beginning with having him do the Extension reading and oral narrations first. The Bigger Extension Pack also has once weekly science readings with brief questions to answer which would up the level of science.

If you combined your kiddos in Bigger for most things, I think your daughter could do English 2 (as scheduled in Bigger) and your son could do English 3 or English 4. It sounds like your daughter could do the Emerging Readers or DITHR 2/3, depending on her level, and your son could do DITHR 4/5 (with the 4/5 Boy Set of books).

One thing to ponder is that it helps to do a guide that still allows enough time for you to do English and DITHR as scheduled, as these are two of the 3 R's (making them so important). If you get yourself spread too thin, you might find that you are regularly skipping DITHR or English, or both. I do think combining your kiddos in BIgger would allow time to do that.

If you did pursue the combining in Bigger path, and later felt your son needed to move forward, you could always assess again and move him forward if needed. In addition, there are many skills taught in Bigger that are realized in Preparing, so your time spent teaching and training the kiddos in Bigger is always worthwhile. I do think pondering doing both Bigger and Preparing is a pretty heavy load. There are mamas that do pull it off and have it go well, however they have settled in for longer days, knowing those two guides together can be a challenge. I'm not saying that you could not pull of Bigger and Preparing, but I'm more inclined for you to try combining in Bigger first to see if this might be a fit. If it is, it would be a blessing to you as you journey. Sometimes what is best for a season or a year changes the next year, but for this moment in time these are my thoughts.

Anyway, just a few thoughts to ponder. Feel free to share your own thoughts too!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

It's really GREAT to be back here - over the last couple of days I've really been welling up with excitement and at the same time, peace. It's hard to explain but I just take it as God's hand. Everyone has been so wonderful, as always. I find the boards here to be such a awesome place of support and advice. Just another reason I love HOD and feel.....at home.

Last night, after a lot of thought and much prayer, I made the decision to put both children into Bigger. And then I found your helpful and encouraging post today!! So cool! And yes, you read my concerns correctly. I want to meet my son where he is and then give him a path in which he can grow and gain his confidence rather than one filled with mountain after mountain. I also want to be sure that I am available as much as possible for all 3 of them. I fear having those 3 particular guides would indeed stretch me thin, possibly affecting my attitude along the way and sucking any joy out of the day. I feel like one of the reasons I have been led back to HOD is because there hasn't been much joy in the homeschooling part of our home. I'm hoping that will return.

My thought process is actually very similar to what you have shared. I thought we could start in Bigger, with DS at level with his skills (quick question: could he do English 4 if he hasn't done English 3?), and then if for some reason he needed a bump up we could always accommodate that. I need to "refresh" my Story Time books and my DITHOR library because the kids have plowed through them over this last year on their own (NOT that I'm complaining here! lol) so DD will actually be going into the girl's 4/5 pack and DS will do the boy's 4/5. I am definitely considering the Extensions pack for DS but I need to work out some budget issues first. DH has recently switched careers and our budget is anybody's guess right now. I usually stock up for the next "year" around tax season, so I'll have see if I can get creative with the funds.

I'm really looking forward to this leg of our homeschooling journey. Like you said, our needs can change from season to season and everything just seems to be fitting right at this time with this decision. I know Preparing will be there when he's ready for it.

I wanted to share with you also that in doing some searches through the threads yesterday, I came across a mother whose son was high school age but needed to be placed in a lower guide to "meet him where he was". Your sincere encouragement and advice to her was exactly what I needed to "hear" concerning our own situation. So I want to thank you, not only for answering my concerns specifically, but also for all the words of wisdom you offer all of us here. You never know when someone else's blessing will be passed along and allowed to grace the life of another. Thank you. (I need a big hug smiley here )

Whitney,

I'm so glad that you have had a chance to sift and sort through options and pray over them to find the Lord's leading. What a blessing it is that we can gather together here to encourage one another on this journey!

I'm so glad that you found some threads that were an encouragement as you pondered. The board is full of wisdom, and full of families seeking the Lord's best however that looks for them.

In answer to your question, I do believe your son could begin in English 4 if he is motivated and able to do the written work required daily. If that seems like it might be too much to pull-off on a daily basis, you could consider doing English 3 daily instead. His schedule would probably be one of the following:
Plan 1:
Age 10 1/2: English 3 with Bigger
Age 11 1/2: English 4 with Preparing
Age 12 1/2: English 5 (1st half) with CTC
Age 13 1/2: English 5 (2nd half) with RTR
Age 14 1/2: English 6 (all) with Rev2Rev (1st year of high school)
Age 15 1/2: English 7 (1st half) with MTMM (2nd year of high school)
Age 16 1/2: English 7 (2nd half) with WG (3rd year of high school)
Age 17 1/2: English 8 (1st half) with WH (4th year of high school)
* In this plan, he would not finish the last 1/2 of English 8 before graduation, unless you did it daily instead (which is feasible).

Plan 2:
Age 10 1/2: English 4 with Bigger
Age 11 1/2: English 5 with Preparing
Age 12 1/2: English 6 (1st half) with CTC
Age 13 1/2: English 6 (2nd half) with RTR
Age 14 1/2: English 7 (1st half) with Rev2Rev (1st year of high school)
Age 15 1/2: English 7 (2nd half) with MTMM (2nd year of high school)
Age 16 1/2: English 8 (1st half) with WG (3rd year of high school)
Age 17 1/2: English 8 (2nd half) with WH (4th year of high school)

Of course, either of these plans can be adjusted to suit your son's needs, both grammar-wise and guide-wise, and he may not end up doing the guides in their exact sequence if he does ever jump forward so these are just hypotheticals at this point. But, I thought it may help as you ponder options.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,

Thank you for laying out those two options for his schooling. It really helps to see it all written out.

I did order English 4 so I'll look it over when it arrives and see if he might be able to go ahead with it. If not, that's ok too - we'll get to it at some point. I do like having options and flexibility and being able to really customize my children's educations according to their needs.

Ok, dumb question time: If he does English 6 as his first year of HS how does that translate into credit?

English 6 is quite advanced, and is often more rigorous in its instruction than many freshman receive as far as grammar instruction goes. The English credit in high school is composed of a combination of literature study, grammar, and composition all within a single credit, so there is no issue in using English 6 for a portion of the combined English credit. If you need to list a text used for grammar, you would simply list the title of the text, rather than the grade level of the text.

Blessings,
Carrie