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Hi again ladies!
So, like I discussed on previous post...we figured a schedule for our school days last week that worked really well!...

I thought we had solved the main issue which was my oldest complaining and not doing his writing....by orally doing most of his English/DITHOR and having setbblocks of time for each to do their work....

Well, today was going really well...until...he didn't get his cursive done and was going to do it during his free time...I said ok, not thinking it would be a big deal....
Then we get to science which is a notebook ing assignment to copy a Bible verse...which was a kinda long verse...(Genesis 1:11) but, he had not been required to do much writing at all today...is that really asking too much...??....he has good hand writing, I think he just doesn't want to do it....he has cried, complained, said he was too tired ( so I had him go to bed for a bit to rest, but it didn't help)....
He looks at the length of the assignment and gets all tore up if it is more than he wants to do.....
He has lost outside time, which he replied he didnt want to go out today....( so not true, they love to be out all day)and any tv time for the day( sometime they can watch one show after nap)...

How do I fix this...?? I like to get school done for the day, but he is again dragging things out....
And I don't like to do school on Saturday if we can help it. I used to have them do on Saturday whatever doesn't get done in the week. ( I like to have a day off to get the house really clean)

I would appreciate any suggestions.....he is such a good boy and very bright, usually obedient....just seems he doesn't want to do any amount of writing...

Thanks so much ( the schedule really has helped!...besides this occurence today )

Would it help if you said, "I am going to set the timer for 5 minutes. As long as you work hard and do your very best, we will stop when the timer goes off."? Then you could write out the rest of the verse for him. The goal, of course, would be to grow into the writing by the end of the guide. You would still be getting 5 minutes of handwriting practice in, even if it wasn't the whole thing. I might even go as far as to have one thing of Smarties and suggest that if he wanted to write well for 7 minutes, he could have that. (Others may disagree with this last part!) Working up to longer handwriting sessions is a skill. Sometimes it takes a little motivation.

It looks like 8arrows and I were typing at the same time with similar advice!

I only have a quick minute to reply but thought I would to just give you some ideas to ponder right away as you need them. With my boys once we began implementing a schedule, I looked at the times on the schedule as a general rule of thumb rather than legalistic times. So, for instance if something on the schedule is meant to take 15 min., as long as the child is working I allow a bit more time if needed (like 5-15 extra min.). Once I can see we are stretching beyond that and are headed toward getting far enough behind that we soon can't recover, I jump in and help the child recover if at all possible. To do this, I might do all of an English lesson orally, assigning none to be done on paper. Or, I may write out the math problems from the textbook to help the child move more quickly. I might downsize a math assignment a bit if needed. Or, I might put away or set out a child's materials open to needed pages to move him along. I may write a younger child's answers to DITHR, while he dictates them to me to save time. Or, I might sit right by a child pointing out text or redirecting while he works to keep him on task. I might read directions aloud from an older child's guide while he follows them, or I might send the kiddos for a much needed break while I quickly check their work to see why they might have fallen behind. Anyway, these are just a few ideas of how you can partner with your kiddos to keep them on track and happily moving through their day. So, these are all things to consider.

Next, I'll share that I have a "finish school" time in the afternoon for my third son who is currently in RTR. This is a 45 min. block of time that is a part of his schedule (after his lunch, recess, and work in the warehouse break) where he returns to his schoolwork and finishes anything he did not finish earlier during the school day. This works well for him right now, as he has learned he prefers to get it done then rather than have it left in the evening. However, when we were training him in diligent work habits when he was younger, we had a work time in the evening after supper when he worked with his Dad on anything he had not finished during the school day with me. This worked well for me, as it needed to be dad who enforced the finishing rather than me!

In your son's case, when he begins melting down over the handwriting, I would jump in to stem the tide right away by saying something like... "Alright, I can see that you are overwhelmed with the amount of copy work today, and you will have to work up to doing all of it eventually; but to help you get started today, since it is a longer passage, I will write the first sentence (or two) to get you started. Then, you need to dry your eyes and get going with the rest. Let's see how much you can get done then in 10 min. if you work hard the whole time." Often, once kiddos see the length reducing before they begin, they feel more able to do it. This is true of any assignment they find overwhelming!

Then, head away to do something else after setting the 10 min. timer. Be sure he knows he doesn't have to finish in that amount of time, but just needs to work diligently. If you return and he has shown progress, he can either finish (if he's close to done) or set it aside to do the rest later. If he has chosen not to progress in the 10 min., simply let him know this means he'll have to finish later and set the work aside to be done at the later time you've designated for leftover work (either in the evening with dad or in the late afternoon).

If he does not work hard during the leftover work time, then you award the consequence at that time. This means you are giving the child every chance to succeed without drawing battle lines all throughout the day. You'll only have one time that you award the consequence. You want your child to see you are partnering with them to get their work done instead of lying in wait to take away privileges (even though you really aren't, they see it that way)!

Also, if the child ends up with quite a pile of work to finish during the "leftover work" time, both you and your husband (and your child) will be able to see that the day wasn't very productive. You can discuss ways to do better the next day then. But again, you are partnering with the child to help them be successful.

Anyway, these are just some thoughts you can ponder to see what might work in your own family.

Blessings,
Carie

Thanks so much Carrie and 8arrows for all the advice!

I have tried setting a timer in the past, and would come back and nothing would be done.....that's when we would usually get behind and have to move things to Saturday ( before using our new schedule) . But having a block of time in the evening is a good idea, that way he doesn't lose all his outside time in the afternoon because of wasting his time. I really like for them to be out whenever they can....

Will have to work out when the catch up time will be though..dad doesn't get home till at least 6, or later...and works over frequently. Bedtime is at 8, so their time is often limited...so it may have to be with me.

We really have come a long way in this past week...getting on schedule and with the new little one...
He was even copying poetry one night just because I wanted to , what a concept! I am very proud of their efforts....yesterday was the first complaint and return of the old behavior.
( he did end up copying his verse so he could go outside,

I think Carrie, you are exactly right, when you said overwhelmed. Maybe it's not so much he doesn't want to do it...but feels like he can't...? So, getting him started may help.

I really appreciate all the input and you ladies taking time to help me along!... We are really enjoying HOD and thankful we are able to teach our children this way. So thankful for this board and all the help and encouragement you offer!

I know from experience that it's really hard to see this with him being your oldest, but he's still little. Bigger is a lot of work. Give him some grace while still expecting him to finish his work.

One thing I've found that helps my younger ones is to write down the consequences and put them where they can easily see them. Kind of like a classroom rules chart you'd see in a school. That way, to them, it doesn't seem like YOU are the one being "mean" all the time. It's just the rules.

Also, when I have younger ones doing Bigger I'll spread it out some. So like if the notebooking page has a long Bible verse I'll have them write some of it first thing, then we will do something they think is fun, then they'll work on it a bit more, then another fun thing (or the rest of the fun thing) and then finish the notebooking page. This really cuts down on the amount they feel they are doing at one point.

Also, ask him. Before he sees what the verse is and how long it is (for instance) tell him "this is a longer one. How much do YOU think you could get done in... 5 minutes? How long do you think it would take you to do the whole thing?"

I just wanted to weigh in as well with a few thoughts too

MomtoJGJE is right, your son is at the youngest end for the age range for Bigger. And Bigger is a lot more work than Beyond and Little Hearts. Children are so funny in that they acquire different skills at different times. My girls love to write and my son hates it These notebooking activities have really stretched him. And I have definitely utilized Carries advice many a time during my day. You don't want tears everyday and you don't want your kids to hate school. But there also comes a time when I have said to my kids, "Sometimes you just have do things you don't want to do." For my son this year, I started my year off half speed to help him get used to writing volume. We did this for about 3 weeks. Then we went 3/4 speed for a bit. I wanted him to know that if the manual says to do it, you have to do it. We can go slower and we take more time, but it is important to do the full assignment. So I would split it up if need be. Bible was really hard for him at first because the verses are longer. So he would highlight what he was to copy in his Bible (this helped him tremendously!) and then he could break up the writing through the day but completed all of it. If there is drawing as well, I will never have my son complete the Bible and the drawing in the say sitting. He usually writes the verse in the morning. In the afternoon, he will do the drawing. And when he draws, I sit with him and copies what I do (I have to help him step by step). For my son, he is really into rules. (He is a complete legalist!) So if I set a rule, I better stick to my guns or I will pay for it later LOL. That is why we went to splitting things up over the day. As for grammar, like others have said, doing orally is fine. And with DITHOR, you can definitely write things for him there too.

But with his age, I wouldn't be afraid to slow down a little if you need to. Preparing and CTC are more writing still. So for us, my goal is to get my son read this year for the writing for next year. I am sure your son is correctly placed, I would just spend time in prayer about how fast you want to get through the guide and how best to get your son to full speed.

Well, I agree with what the other ladies have said for the most part. There is a fine and difficult balance to try and walk between expectatons and making sure your child knows that school is hard work and sometimes you have to do things you don't want to, and the fact that being pushed and pressured to do things that are too hard will sour their desire to do it and give them a bad taste in their mouth when it comes to learning.

When my oldest was in Bigger she struggled a lot with the writing and notebooking. She didn't like it much. I slowed Bigger down because with where we were at, there was no way she was ready to go on full speed and then move into Preparing a year later. Half speed also reduced her workload and her attitude got better. But even still now, she is almost through Preparing, and writing can be a struggle for her. Now it is when she is supposed to write down her own thoughts. I often face exactly what you describe. Whining, crying, "I can't, it's too hard."

I know where you are at with your busy family and I know it's hard to scrape out the time to sit down and work these issues through. But for some things, you will need to be there, on task, and see it through. I do this more now because in Preparing, my teaching time is usually not more than 2 hours total. The rest she is expected to do on her own. But the self-composed writing part of it I am supposed to help with and now I know that I just have to be able to do it. I let the other kids watch TV during part of the time I have with her. So when there is whining and crying over writing, my general tack is "I understand you don't like it, I know it's hard, but you have to do it. We can either get it done quickly while you work at it, or we can take a long time and it will be a lot more miserable that way." I give her some time to calm down. If the assignment really is long or hard I may offer to help with part of it (which in her case with her stuff means she tells me and I write it down for her to copy, but in Bigger may mean you writing some part of it for him). However, I don't want to set the precedent that whining means you get out of part of it. So usually she doesn't. Usually we try to work through the attitude first, talk it through, pray, I try to encourage as much as I can that she can do it and that I will be there too to help if I see she needs it but I know she can do it. And let's go ahead and get started so we can get done and do something else.

Putting it off until later or setting a timer and walking away would not work. My daughter would always put it off. She also would not work if I set a timer. Sometimes she dawdles on her independent work, even things she likes.

I hope this is helpful for you. Blessings to you!

I just thought I would add one more quick thought. As someone else said, Bigger is hard work. I think that is the year that school becomes "work" for kids (if they are in school or homeschooling). It's just time to get into some meat of things and really move forward. I'm sure it's a tough transition, especially for some kids. It also came from me not understanding the expectations and therefore not preparing my child well enough for the transition. It has gone much more smoothly with my 2nd born because I realized where she would have to be and helped her gradually work up to it, so now she is really ready for Bigger.

Being on this forum, and my own lessons learned from mistakes I have made have helped me a lot to build up my children for success, although any success I may have attained is definitely attributed to the Lord!