Your thoughts on Algebra. 8th grade or 9th grade?

[Mibellesmom]

I am cross roads trying to decide if we will do Pre-Algebra next year or do a math fundamentals review for 7th grade. In giving my son placement tests, he places in Pre Algebra at the minimum requirement but he still struggles....

[LynnH]

If he struggles I would do the math review for 7th grade and then move into Pre-algebra. We did Pre-Algebra for 7th, but had to switch programs twice so we got a very delayed start on the program we ended up using. We did it through last summer and then got a slightly late start with Algebra this year for 8th, but I have slowed it down some and added some word problems from a different source so he won't end up finishing Algebra 1 until around October of his 9th grade year. I am realizing how important it is they have a very solid foundation in all the fundamentals before doing Algebra.

[StephanieU]

I think it would depend on your son and what you use for Pre-Algebra. Having the basics down is important, but if it seems like just review it could cause him to "rebel" against it. So, if you can find a Pre-Algebra program that includes the review, that would be best. Or, do the review along side the Pre-Algebra (taking 1.5-2 years to do both).
Also, what does he struggle with? That is often key to knowing how much review is really necessary.

[Mibellesmom]

Hes' struggling with converting fractions to decimals & dividing with decimals, mostly. He still blanks on times table sometimes but he has improved tremendously. We use Saxon Math 7/6. We started later in the second half of the year, and we're half way through. We decided to take a math class once a week next year, and I am trying to decide between those. I think I could probably work with some pre-algebra concepts along with this class. I am not sure how much work he would have during the week to allow for that.

[Nealewill]

I would probably just try to find some review with those things specifically. I know Singapore has that stuff in the levels 4B through 5B. If he is still struggling, I would look there. Also, there is a book called Key to Algebra. It is set up to help students in one or two areas. So I would look to just hone in on those skills if it were me personally.

But many prealgebra programs are going to cover a lot of those skills too. So I think I would thumb through the next level and see what is in it.

[StephanieU]

So the choice is for the class outside of HOD? If so, I would go with Pre-Algebra and continue working on what you are doing. You can always supplement at home and review what needs to be reviewed.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I have heard that Saxon 8/7 and Pre-Algebra 1/2 are almost the same. If you do 8/7, you go to Algebra 1 not Pre-Algebra 1/2.
8/7-
The final Saxon middle school level, previously learned skills are reviewed, while new concepts such as pre-algebra, ratios, probability and statistics are introduced.
Algebra 1/2 (Pre-Algebra)-
Algebra 1/2 provides a full pre-algebra course and an introduction to geometry and discrete mathematics. Topics covered include Prime and Composite numbers; fractions & decimals; order of operations, coordinates, exponents, square roots, ratios, algebraic phrases, probability, the Pythagorean Theorem and more.

Most of the people I know skip Algebra 1/2 and go to Algebra 1 after 8/7 unless they have a kid who is just moving through Saxon quicker than grade level. Then they do the Algebra 1/2.

To answer your question, I would do the 8/7 if that was the math review you were talking about in the post for 7th. And then Algebra for 8th. I would want to have some breathing room if Algebra 1 doesn't go smoothly. That way if Algebra 1 goes into 9th grade it is no big deal. If Algebra 1 goes rough in 9th as a first go through with Algebra, it would be more stressful for me. I would feel right now you have some padding to play with and would take advantage of it.
I personally like integrated maths with algebraic concepts interwoven in the scope and sequence over a "Pre-Algebra" course. If you continue with Saxon for high school, it is integrated maths if you use the 3rd edition.

[Mibellesmom]

I intended using Math 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 and not both. You're right on that one. We are in lesson 47 of Saxon 7/6 though. I could take the placement test and see how he does placing in 8/7 next year. My son is resistant doing math over the summer, too. The review I was talking about, it's a fundamental math class vs Pre-Algebra class. Neither class uses Saxon, but will use Basic College Mathematics by Margaret Lial, and the subsequent pre-algebra text. I like very much of the idea for him to learn Math from someone else, besides me. Math is not a strong subject for me. We use saxon teacher videos and they help. I think I could probably finish 7/6 at home and move to 8/7 while he takes the fundamental class. It is only once a week and they assign a bit of homework for the rest of the days. I am not sure, if this is realistic though.

[LynnH]

I have both of the Lial books and the Basic College Math will cover well where he is struggling. The Lial prealgebra book is meaty and gets challenging quickly. I use it to supplement our algebra program at times.

[Tidbits of Learning]

I intended using Math 8/7 or Algebra 1/2 and not both. You're right on that one. We are in lesson 47 of Saxon 7/6 though. I could take the placement test and see how he does placing in 8/7 next year. My son is resistant doing math over the summer, too. The review I was talking about, it's a fundamental math class vs Pre-Algebra class. Neither class uses Saxon, but will use Basic College Mathematics by Margaret Lial, and the subsequent pre-algebra text. I like very much of the idea for him to learn Math from someone else, besides me. Math is not a strong subject for me. We use saxon teacher videos and they help. I think I could probably finish 7/6 at home and move to 8/7 while he takes the fundamental class. It is only once a week and they assign a bit of homework for the rest of the days. I am not sure, if this is realistic though.

Is the math class through a co-op or homeschool group? Or is it one created by a teacher for homeschoolers? The reason I ask is that we do a co-op and I have seen a lot of classes put on the list to fill a need and the teacher does ok in the one day a week but the day to day for the class and the math is still up to the parents. In my experience, you aren't really outsourcing math this way. Your student gets 1 day of reviewing the previous week's math assignments in a class setting, but both you and your student are still plodding through the math during the week to get the assignments completed before the next math class.
I would ask a lot of questions first and make sure the class will fit what you are looking for with outsourcing math. It would be really hard to even tutor math 1 on 1 for 1 day a week and get good results from the student. It definitely wouldn't take over the math they are doing on their own with the parent at home. I only mention this b/c in these type classes you are forced to use the math that the teacher chooses but you are ultimately still teaching it b/c you would never get through a math course teaching it one day a week and cover it all. The parents will be teaching a lot or supporting the teaching a lot. Most of these style courses are set up where the students do the first week's assignments at home with the parent and they are going over the material on the day of "teaching" in class. I would just really check the setup of the class and how it would be carried out.

[Mibellesmom]

It's done by teachers for homeschoolers, not our homeschool co-op. It is put on by Biola University Homeschool program. Yes, it is understood that the parents work at home with the students, following a syllabus. Thank you for bringing this up. It's something I already knew, but I really need to think about. They have said the work is approximately 30 problems per day....if that is the case, it would be hard to add our own math on top of it.

[my3sons]

HOD is recommending yourteacher.com in its new WH guide as an option, and that has math concepts divided into clickable sections that make it easy to review specific concepts as needed. You can read about it here...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15212

Though it has been chosen in regard to geometry for the WH guide, it includes all areas of math. One of my nephews used this for specific concepts he wanted to review and loved it! Also, if you decide to do something totally different, Rick Fisher's PreAlgebra is very user friendly, and I have yet to meet a student who used it that didn't enjoy it and wind up feeling like he was good at math. I believe it takes less than a year to get through and may be easy to use if short on time. HOD carries his follow-up No-Nonsense Algebra 1 book as well. HTH as you ponder your choices!

In Christ,
Julie

[Mibellesmom]

I will check it out those recommendations!! For right now, I am more concerned about sequence....Depending on what he wants to do, I'd like him to take 4 years of math. If he struggles, it will add pressure in High School. If he excels, we could even graduate earlier.... Since we homeschool, we could also do this a bit differently. For example, I know video text combines pre algebra, 1 and 2 into one program.
He's in 7th.

7th grade- Review
8th grade- Pre Algebra
9th grade Algebra 1
10th grade Algebra 2
11th Trig
12th Pre Calculous
OR
7th grade pre algebra
8th grade Algebra
9th grade Algebra 2
10th grade Trig
11th grade Pre Calculous
12th grade ?

[StephanieU]

Both sequences would be perfectly fine for any major, even something like engineering or math. If you do get to Pre-Calculus in 11th grade and a math-based field isn't the plan, you could do probability and statistics for the senior year. This is the common math course taken by social science and humanities majors at most colleges. If you think he might be ready for pre-algebra in 7th, I would try it. I think it is easier to take a step back and review than it is to jump forward. The things you mentioned he struggles with he might understand more when he does the algebra that goes with them for example.