Left Side of lower guide and Right Side of a higher guide

[Nealewill]

Okay, so I am just curious. I have gone round and round about keeping my younger 2 children together versus separate. My youngest is gifted but just because she is gifted, I don't know that I want to overload her with "work". When I switched to HOD I was very excited about separating the kids but have since found out that is hard to do Bigger and Preparing back to back with the kids. So I am wondering, has anyone every completed the left side of a lower guide and then the right side of the next guide up with their children consistently from year to year?

The reason I am asking is I feel like my son is getting to the point he can do more. Since he is in second grade and finishing up his spelling and math already, I feel very comfortable moving him up in the next month or so for Language Arts, Spelling, add DITHOR and move him up in Math. But was then thinking, he could definitely handle the next science, he could do a different poetry, and he could do a different bible where him and I would meet alone only. But by letting him continue on with the Right Side alone, he can do more on his own, which I like. By keeping him with his younger sister for the left side of the guide (one level lower), it gives me the opportunity to not run so many "levels" at a time for history and not have to read nearly as much out loud especially because they would both be doing Bigger and Preparing back to back.

I have gone round and round about keeping them together and letting my youngest be on the youngest end of the guide and my middle child be on the oldest end but I honestly just don't have peace there. If my youngest needs the time to grow into a skill, I want to give her the time. If my oldest doesn't need time, I don't want wait for the younger child. By letter her have that extra year, I don't think it will take as long for her to grown into next skill if that makes any sense.

My only concern with splitting the levels is that I know both sides of the guide for PHFHG are very nicely stacked with respect to the volume of work load each day. My concern is that if I go to using a higher guide on the left with a lower guide on the right that the volume or writing activities and such might be very skewed each day. Does anyone know if the levels continue on with similar schedules (like in preparing, science d1 note book page, d2 oral narration, d3 answer questions, d4 experiment).

I am probably going to end up printing off the first week at a glance for each level to see how it might line up but was curious if anyone had actually done this. And I guess if it comes down to it - I will probably brave up and just do Bigger and Preparing back to back for each child separately. I am at a point where I want my son to be able to finish a year before his sister and I really like the thought of them not doing EVERYTHING together (mainly science and history). They both are so unique and I picked HOD so that I could keep them all separate and work with each one separately to help them grow alone rather than to just learn from each other. I am hoping this is more of a healthy balance but still not sure what to do. I just fear I will hate my life because of the volume of work with Bigger and Preparing for me. And I guess what is really happening is I just feel like I would like to be as separate as possible but for me to not feel completely overwhelmed in doing so.

And I know I probably look redundant as I have asked similar questions on this board but I am just really trying to work things out in my mind here. I have prayed and prayed about this and just feel like separating them as much as possible is truly the most healthy thing for me to do.

[MelInKansas]

I have never done R side or L side in different guides. Generally I think people only do that for lower guides, where less customization is possible within a guide itself. By Preparing/up I don't think they would recommend doing L side and R side in different guides. Probably because of what you are thinking, it will not be as well balanced for the workload. And you can always add if your child needs more. Extensions, DITHOR would beef up the depths of the topics you are covering. So if you think your son needs more challenge I would look at extensions first. I understand you want your younger one to have time to grow. But maybe don't worry about that until it becomes clear that she is overwhelmed and really needs to slow down. Just my thought.

[StephanieU]

Are you talking about just upping the math, grammar, and DITHOR? If so, I think it would be fairly easy and not that all uncommon with the guides. I think the way Carrie wrote them allow you to customize those areas without affecting the rest of the guide. I know in the later guides, there are even two (or more) levels of options for those subjects. For example, Preparing suggests Singapore 2, 3, or 4 and Rod and Staff 3 or 4. If you wanted to use the 5th grade options for either of those, I don't think it would matter either.

[Nealewill]

Thank you Melissa. I am just having my normal weekly panic attack right now LOL! I am actually meeting with the teacher whom I use each year for my other children's annual evaluations. She is going to help me to try and help me understand my youngest DD. And I guess I worry because she is actually below the age range for Beyond and but is doing totally fine! I know the work load increases more and more. And I can hold off on starting Bigger till after summer to give her just a little bit more time but she will only be 6 then and the Bigger's age range is 7-9. I realistically don't know that she will struggle at all nor do I anticipate that she will. But I also know that every year there after she will be right below the age range when she starts. I just don't want to be in that mom who is pushing to hard or in a position where I am holding the one child back waiting for the younger to catch up. This is the exact reason why I wanted to keep every separated in everything that they do. So they could all move at their own pace and not have to worry about anyone else

I just was more wondering if that was feasible or not to do. I guess I just love having my oldest on her own and always planned to have the younger 2 separated. It is kind of stressful for me, for whatever reason, to keep them together. I just need to chillax!

And thanks Stephanie U - I am going to keep those areas separated already. My son is full year ahead in math and spelling already so those subjects aren't an issue. I could start grammar early for my son but if I do bigger with my younger child right after we finish Beyond, I probably won't speed up Grammar at this point for my son. And DITHOR will always be kind of separate anyway because I will pick out books to their level every year and they will always be different books.

[MelInKansas]

If anything, if you really feel you want to separate your kiddos, it would make sense to move the younger one down, not move the older one up. Is he doing well, does he seem appropriately challenged, and is he learning and growing from the guide? He is right in the middle of the age range, and as you already noted you don't want to be in any kind of hurry with it.

The poetry selections go along with the unit sometimes, in Beyond and Bigger for sure. The Bible study discussions are plenty "difficult" in either guide, just discussion questions and you can take it deeper with an older child who has more understanding. And as Stephanie noted, grammar, math, and reading are done with each child at their own level anyway. You could separate them for the Bible study discussion time, I can see how that would be a benefit.

[Nealewill]

So I had a very encouraging talk with the teacher that I meet with. My concern for my kids is that my youngest is very advanced at this point and I worry about the fact that she may level off. The certified teacher agrees that she is well above her age in her language arts skills and even above in math. She believes that my dd should be fine doing HOD at the younger age for the guides with minimal challenges - as long as she continues to progress the way she is progressing (obviously, there are never any guarantees in life but I am just trying to formulate a plan). And realistically, she confirmed what I was already thinking - my younger child will probably be ahead of my son anyway in language - now and forever. She used the example of how each of us is gifted in an area. We all had subjects that came easily when we were in school but with being in "school" you couldn't be good in one area and just move along. You had to move everything at the same time. Where as with homeschooling, if you are good in math, you move along. If you are good in spelling, you just move along. So she is thinking that my son and daughter should have no problems really in moving at the same speed.

In addition, I currently have a schedule plan that has my son being held back only a 1/2 a year and my youngest ahead by 1 1/2 years. Well, after meeting with her and review my state's requirements, we came to the conclusion that if my son really is ready for high school by the time we start MTMM, we would only need to modify a few things. Without owning the MTMM level I can't truly assess the writing portion but that may need to be beefed up a bit. But the lit study and grammar are fine for high school English. I only need 3 credits of high school science and that would not be a problem as she said the science was already high school worthy. I would need to some how get a 1/2 credit of economics, 1/2 credit of government, and a 1/2 credit of personal finance. But my son will probably finish all of his high school math by the time he is in 10th grade so we could easily add that stuff in during the 11th and 12th grade for credit. Plus, she said we didn't need to do nearly as in depth of a study as HOD does to receive high school credit. Now - don't get me wrong - she thinks the HOD curriculum wonderful. But she was just giving me bare minimum ideas for credit since 2 of those items are covered in the final level and I may not want to add the full amount of those items in for a lower level even though I need that credit for graduation. However - this would only come into play if my son was actually ready for high school at that age. If he wasn't ready and I wanted to hold him keep him held back by that 1/2 year or even full year, then I could easily do that he would then just complete all 4 high school levels.

So it was really great meeting. I do feel a lot better about having that extra time if I want it and not feeling panicked. Plus we did talk about what I could do if I felt like my younger child was overwhelmed and it was not longer a good fit to keep them together. I figure if it is just too much for her at some point when we are move up, she could always take a break and do something else for 3-6 months in history and science (basically unschool). That would give my son plenty of time to get ahead of her in that guide. Then when she is ready, she would come back to it and at that point, they are separated. Easy as pie! So I feel a lot better already.

[Nealewill]

If anything, if you really feel you want to separate your kiddos, it would make sense to move the younger one down, not move the older one up. Is he doing well, does he seem appropriately challenged, and is he learning and growing from the guide? He is right in the middle of the age range, and as you already noted you don't want to be in any kind of hurry with it.

I had just typed my long reply right before you submitted this.

I had thought of this too. My challenge is - my oldest is very comfortable in this Beyond guide. My concern about moving the younger one down is she won't be challenged at all with that guide. She is very unusual for her age. I was a little bit worried about the workload as she gets older but I am a less stressed now. I agree - she is definitely young for the guide but her birthday is next month. She already answers a lot of the language arts stuff much better than my son but he is getting there. I think with science he is probably a little bit quicker than she is but she gets it. Even her writing skills are similar to my son. She can write for an unusually long time for a 5 year old and she has beautiful handwriting. She reads as well as him and I would say they both are probably placed very correctly for now.

After speaking with the certified teacher about the kids and this curriculum, her advice is hold the boy back by 1 grade and let my youngest do the grade level he is doing. She thinks they will both be totally fine with this. She said just choose books that are at their reading level for literature (she guesses that my youngest will be able to handle harder books that the older), keep math at their level (my son is ahead) and spelling at their level (my son is barely ahead). She recommended keeping them both in same grammar for now because my son does have some language delays. He is a very smart boy but sometimes he gets confused by the simplest of words. She also made some recommendations on how I could meet my states high school requirements should my son really pushes ahead all of the sudden and be ready for high school once we start MTMM. So that was very encouraging. And realistically, this option gives me an extra 6 months to play with for the kids. So I feel a lot better about having my son on the highest age of the guide and my youngest on the lowest (she will start bigger about 4 months before she turns 7 and then Preparing right when she turns 8 if things continue on the way they are going).

[MelInKansas]

Wow. It's nice to have someone to consult with on requirements and possibilities who has met and assessed your children. It sounds like a good plan. I am all about separating, if they need to be separated. But if not, then don't!

[bethelmommy]

My oldest two are right where your youngest two are and we are planning to follow a similar track to what you worked out with your consulting teacher. Combining has worked out great for us so far. We take a lot of breaks and frequently only get in 4 days of the guide each week. When that happens, I still have my oldest move forward with math, DITHOR, and grammar which keeps him on grade level, but allows a little more time for dd to grow into the guides. We started LHFHG when she was just shy of 4.5 and we started Beyond a few weeks before she turned 6. She has done great so far. We are only 7 units into Beyond and she has grown into the skills required for the guide so nicely already. HOD does a wonderful job of preparing students to move up through the guides. As long as dc are accurately placed, the progression happens almost seamlessly.

[Nealewill]

Thank you Alicia for your encouragement. I have read in several threads many moms say that if you move up level to level, your children will be very prepared for the next level. So in that sense I am comforted that things should be a smooth sail. I am glad to hear that you have found this to be working personally as well. I guess since this is our first year with HOD, I found my oldest had a pretty big adjustment to doing what HOD required. So I guess I was just thinking ahead a few guides and worried about how my youngest will adjust as she moves up in work load. But realistically, all of kids are different. My oldest is an average and slow reader and worker where as my younger two are very motivated and like to bust through school. So a lot of that will also play into how hard they work to complete their day. And now that we are getting to the half way point, I can see how each level really does prepare the child for the next level. So I am a little bit less worried about that as well now.

And Melissa - it is nice to be able to speak with a certified teacher. And the teacher I use is great. She homeschooled all of her kids and teaches high school students at a homeschool college prep program. She is very familiar with all the requirements for my state for graduation and this makes me feel much more at ease with having my kids meet those requirements. I was pretty worried about what would happen if my son all the sudden started taking off in the area of language arts. And what if I wanted to try and let my son graduate on time versus late. But she was very helpful to me and said that basically it would be up to me if I wanted to even finish the last level with him. And realistically, by the time my kids get to CTC, at that point my son could go to doing school 5 days a week if he wanted to get back on schedule to graduate when he is 18 should I want him to do all of the levels. Or we could just skip that last guide and he would have still learned SO much and he can still meet his requirements for graduation. So it was a very freeing meeting and consultation. This is the prime reason why we do not do the annual testing in my state. In Ohio, you can choose to do a test each year (you must score 25% or higher) or you can get evaluated by a certified teacher. Even if my kids marked A on every problem and didn't read the test, they could probably get a 25%! So we do a teacher evaluation instead. I really like it. It is great for me as an individual to look back over the year and see all that we accomplished. And I know my kids are doing well. I did do a test with my oldest a couple of times before I met this teacher and she scored in the 80th percentile. Plus, I am more worried about having my kids grow in areas no on the test - like writing and critical thinking. With meeting with the certified teacher, she reviews their writing and such and makes some suggestions for things to work on for the next year. It is so much more helpful than that silly test.

[my3sons]

You have thought this through carefully, and for now, I think things are going smoothly, so just moving forward makes good sense! You'd asked if HOD recommends doing the left side of a lower guide with the right side of a higher guide. This is not something HOD recommends, with the primary reason being that Charlotte Mason language arts type skills are woven in subject areas other than just LA. History, science, Storytime, etc. all have LA skills woven in them. These skills build upon each other incrementally from year to year, from guide to guide. A student who cannot do at least the lower level of LA options offered on a right side of a guide would not be ready for the Charlotte Mason LA skills woven in the subjects of the left side of the guide. These skills are taught in a very purposeful way from an LA perspective from year to year as well, and dc unable to do the minimum level of LA skills taught on the right side of the guide would not be ready to progress through the LA based skills on the left side. It is hard to make this up later, as reading levels of history/science/storytime books and the amount of page numbers read daily are partnered quite carefully with the CM LA style lessons and only increase in difficult from year to year. The directions in the guide begin quite guided, with much hand holding, and then progress to more independence with less leading. So, a student unable to handle the challenge of the right side would be unable to handle the challenge of the left side, and therefore would miss out on integral guided teaching for future success with independence in these skills.

For example, if a student going into Bigger Hearts has not mastered formation of manuscript letters, is not able to copy passages, cannot compose original sentences, is not ready to begin simple dictation, and is not ready to begin cursive writing, then that student will not be able in Bigger Hearts to create their science notebook entry (one day each week), log their experiment in a science notebook (one day each week), copy/trace/draw from a model for their history notebook entry (one day each week), or do their history vocabulary activities (one day each week). So, basically, not being able to do the LA right side of BHFHG would mean dc would not be able to do an important skill being taught on the left side of the guide every day (or more). As these skills build upon each other as well, that means each year dc would fall more and more behind in these areas while receiving less and less instruction upon how to these skills are taught (from a teaching standpoint). With that thought in mind, if a student cannot do the LA of the right side of a guide, HOD would suggest moving that student down a guide or slowing the current guide to half-speed until the student has grown into the right side of the plans fully so he/she can then do the left side of the plans fully. Looking ahead to Bigger Hearts, it is an extremely gifted and far advanced 6 yo that could tackle Bigger Hearts. I'd not recommend it. Slowing down is going to be necessary at some point. Whether that is a good idea for big brother or not is another thing to weigh. It might be - boys do tend to progress more slowly than girls in fine motor skills areas. I think I'd reassess at the end of Beyond and see what you think. If separating becomes the clear path to take, I'd slow dd down to half-speed and have big brother forge ahead full-speed. I have to honestly say that I have loved being able to go half-speed with one of my dc while going full-speed with another (or another 2 dc, I guess I should say ). The ability to go half-speed then full-speed with various dc has been nice. What are your thoughts though?

In Christ,
Julie