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I told myself I wouldn't ask about placement, but here I am asking anyway! I think I have them placed right, but something just keeps whispering to me so I think I need reassurance I am thinking of putting them both in Preparing with extensions for my older son (11 almost 12). I have R&S 4, but worried that might be a bit too hard for my older son.

I am new to homeschooling--pulled the kids from private and public school in Feb. Stumbled upon DITHOR and have been using it since Feb and we love it. That led to me looking at the full blown curriculum and decided to use HOD next year. My son is 11 (12 in October) and just finishing 5th grade. He is a great reader, has very good comprehension, loves to discuss his books-has been using DITHOR 4/5 absolutely fine-it has been a great fit for him. He writes very well (has imaginative ideas, etc, LOVES poetry), but has done very little written narration if at all. He will be learning cursive this summer. He has done very little dictation as well. In getting him home and working with him, I have found he has some holes in his knowledge of grammar. Isn't concrete on the parts of speech yet-prepositions just bewilder him! But he is working on it right now using Easy Grammar--we started with Easy Grammar 5 and quickly realized that was too much, so he has been doing Easy Grammar 3 along with his younger sister (which drives him nuts). For math we have been using TT 5 and for the first time in his life he is feeling more confident in math--which has been such a blessing to see--so I will continue along with that. He works independently pretty well already--he loves to have a bit of responsibility in getting his own things done. I have enjoyed having him home so much and it has truly changed our relationship for the better.

My daughter is 9 (10 in October) and finishing 3rd grade. She reads, but just recently for enjoyment. Her ability in reading is good--she reads above grade level but doesn't seem to enjoy it much--we are working on that by reading books that are a bit easy for her and going to the library often. She had a tendency in school to want to read what her friends were reading and it was many times too hard for her comprehension level--she can be a follower (one of the reasons we pulled her). Her comprehension level is on target for her age--she mostly loves to do the book projects at the end of each DITHOR genre--by far her favorite part of reading so far! Her creative writing is ok--it hasn't been nurtured much. She is very good at parts of speech--is in Easy Grammar 3 right now and could easily be pushed up into Easy Grammar 4 with very little problem. She has done dictation and is comfortable with it, but very little experience with written narration--we are working on oral narration now. Math right now is MathUSee Gamma, but it is too easy right now--trying to buzz thru it till we get to a more challenging area. Math is a strong point for her. I am open to other math programs. It can be overwhelming to me to try and wade thru all the options! We supplement with Life of Fred for both kids once or twice a week--they love it. She is learning independence in her work, but is just as happy working with me. She is a smart kid, but can be happy with only doing the bare minimum unless pushed. I want somethign that will challenge her, but not overwhelm her. She misses the social aspect of school and we are still dealing with that. She loves hands on things and is a pleaser. She is just the neatest kid!

I worry that I am putting them both in Preparing to make it easier for me. I am afraid CtoC would be too hard for my son, since he has very little practice with narration and dictation--but at the same time, I want him challenged. My daughter seems like a great fit for Preparing....
Any advice?
Lisa

Welcome to homeschooling and HOD! It sound like you have been enjoying your homeschooling journey already. Preparing is a wonderful guide and teaches so many skills. I think it is an excellent place to start. From what you've shared about your son, it's possible that he could start in a higher guide, but Preparing with the extensions would probably be a good fit. I wouldn't worry too much about the dictation level, since 3 levels are included in each guide starting in Preparing and the level of dictation isn't dependent on the guide per se. So you can start him in whatever level of dictation he best fits. The narration though is a bit trickier. The great thing about Preparing is that it will lead him through step by step in learning how to do a written narration. The extension books in Preparing are at a higher level so by having him do those, it will really up the level for him and help keep him challenged. How do you think he will feel about doing a program with his little sister?

As far as Rod and Staff 4, I think I would give it a try. It really introduces things well and at a pace that is not at all intimidating. I'm not familiar with Easy Grammar, but after doing that at level 3, I'm guessing he would be ready for R&S4. We do at least 2/3 of the lesson orally and only do a small bit written each day. That keeps the lessons short and sweet, usually around 15 minutes. That is one of the wonderful things about the language arts and math selections that Carrie recommends. They are time efficient so that our day isn't eaten up by one subject.

For math for your daughter, if she loves math, you might want to take a look at Singapore that Carrie recommends. It is a great program and again short and sweet. My less mathy child has done well with it and my mathy child loves it. You can figure out her placement by giving her placement tests here: http://www.singaporemath.com/Placement_Test_s/86.htm

Hopefully some others will jump in here and give you some ideas too, but I think if you feel that your dc would work well together then Preparing should work well for you when using the extensions for your son.

Patty,
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. I am a bit concerned that Preparing might be too easy for my son. I bounce back and forth thinking I should combine them or keeping them separate. Hoping others join in the discussion

I have decided to look at Singapore for my dd. Thanks for recommending it! SH e even admitted yesterday that MUS is boring her. I think I am just gonna start them both in R& S 4 for grammar since I have it and kind of go from there.

I am not sure how my son will feel about doing a guide with his sister. I guess I could start CtC half pace with him. I just worry about the narration--but at the same time, he is a very good reader and I want him challenged on that level.....

I wish money was no object, then I would just order CtC and have it available

Thanks again for your input,
Lisa

Hi Lisa! Always, always ask about placement - no need to tell yourself not to my dear - it is why we are here and what we love to do!!! Pjdobro did a great job of talking through a good option with you already. Having read a bit more now about your dc, I am wondering if I could please ask you a few more questions? Thank you in advance for your patience. Placement takes a bit to figure out, but then you have a terrific year ahead of you at the end of it, so it is well worth the time spent!

Could you please share a bit about your ds and dd's reading individually? If you could share a few titles of books each of them are comfortably reading now, that would be great. Also, are they both accustomed to reading their own history and science? Or, is your dd ready for that if she has not before?

Could you please share how much your dc are used to writing each day, and about how many times they write each day? Also, in general, how is their spelling / punctuation / grammar within their own writing? Thanks!

Would you say, in general, it would be a positive for the two of them to work together, or would they work better in different guides? Would your dd like to have you more to yourself, and would your ds like to strike out a bit more on his own and be more independent? If he did that, could he handle following multi-step directions independently and manage his work time fairly well?

You can give your dd the Singapore Placement Test. It is printable and free at this website...
http://www.singaporemath.com

Just follow these steps once you are on the website...
1. Click on "parents"
2. Click on "assessment tests" (which is a clickable link under Step 3 on that page).
3. Click on the level you want to begin with under PRIMARY MATHEMATICS 3RD & U.S. EDITION SERIES , keeping in mind Singapore Math is considered a year advanced - in other words, start LOWER than you think your dc will place.
4. Print the test and have your dc take it, making sure not to help with anything as this inflates scores.
5. Follow the guidelines for placement (dc will probably take several levels tests before arriving at a placement).
6. Wherever dc place, even if it is lower than you anticipated, start there. If they tested into a "B" book, just begin with that. It will be fine!

I'd love to know your answers and the results from the math test if you decide to give it as well. Then, we can all chime in with more specific advice based on this information!!! Thanks, and I'll check back!

In Christ,
Julie

Julie,
Thanks for helping! I appreciate it very much I really want my kiddos to thrive this year, so any and all help is awesome!

My 9 yr old daughter (who I think fits well in Preparing) has just recently started reading on her own The Warrior Cat books--they are reading level 5.0 and she has been doing fine with them. She also reads The Popularity Papers series--which are all reading level 4.0. She did not read her own science or history this year--we snuggled on the couch together for most of this. I do think she could move to doing some of it on her own--esp since it is not Apologia science (which we were doing this year). She finds the physical act of writing a bit difficult and has sloppy writing. We are doing Cheerful Cursive this summer and I am hoping cursive comes more easily to her and is easier for her hands to do. This year she wrote 2-3 times a week in our writing time--creative stories, poetry, journals. She wrote once in a while in our Apologia notebooks. She wrote some in DITHOR. We did no written narration--we are just starting oral narration. Her spelling is above average for her grade level, but I would say she is pretty average grade level on punctuation and capitalization. She really grasps grammar quickly--maybe she finds it more interesting She hasn't diagrammed sentences, but I think she could pick it up super fast. She wouldn't mind working with her brother, but at the same time she is very competitive and tends to compare her work to her older brother's and that can be bad for her. She tends to be lazy (said as a loving mother) and will only do what she has to to get by. She is very smart and very sensitive, so it is a fine line of keeping her doing her best and her confidence up

My 11 (12 in OCtober) yr old son devours books. He just read THe secret of Zoom, The City of Ember, all the BIg Nate books, tons of graphic novels, Hunger Games Series, seriously this boy reads 6-7 books a week (it makes me so happy). Some of it is not great writing--he reads a lot of silly stuff that appeals to his age (goosebumps, zombie chasers etc), but we do get some gems in there once in a while He read his own science last year--I read history, but he probably could do it on his own. He LOVES to write--creative writing is his favorite thing-wants to be a poet. He is very excited about the poetry aspect of HOD. He isn't as excited about writing for subject areas, but does it. He also has done no written narration--this concerns me about jumping him to CtC. He is learning oral narration and does pretty well with it. His spelling is fantastic and definitely above his age level, punctuation is probably average for his age, but he struggles with aspects of grammar. I think it doesn't make sense to him. He has not diagrammed any sentences and can point out nouns, verbs, but has to be reminded of what Direct objects are, prepositions, etc. He wouldn't mind working with his sister--we did a lot of things together this year. But he is ready to be more independent--he loved getting his schedule in the morning and plowing thru his work, touching base with me where needed. Multi-step directions are sometimes difficult for him, but I think he could handle it with some training and the guide in front of him. He manages his work time well--his sister is the one who lollygags and spent ten minutes sharpening pencils and cleaning out the sharpener, and then wiping the table down, etc. He does tend to shut down if the work is too hard. My son needs to feel successful at what he is doing or he gets super hard on himself and starts to dread school and that is what worries me about CtC. Math has always been a struggle for him and he has no confidence in his math ability--I put him in Teaching Textbooks 5 for that reason and he is LOVING math and feeling confident about it for the first time in his life

I hope that answers some of the questions you had and paints more of a thorough picture of my kiddos!
Thanks so much,
Lisa

Thanks for getting back to me, Lisa! That really does help! To help me think through this, I am going to try to type and hi-light in lavender the placement thoughts that come to mind for your dd as I read your thoughts here. I'll do the same for your ds, only use blue.

momoflh wrote:Julie,
Thanks for helping! I appreciate it very much I really want my kiddos to thrive this year, so any and all help is awesome!

My 9 yr old daughter (who I think fits well in Preparing) has just recently started reading on her own The Warrior Cat books--they are reading level 5.0 and she has been doing fine with them. She also reads The Popularity Papers series--which are all reading level 4.0. Drawn into the Heart of Reading 2/3 Student Book with Level 3 Book Pack; works with either Bigger Hearts or Preparing She did not read her own science or history this year--we snuggled on the couch together for most of this. I do think she could move to doing some of it on her own--esp since it is not Apologia science (which we were doing this year). Bigger Hearts OR Preparing She finds the physical act of writing a bit difficult and has sloppy writing. Bigger Hearts We are doing Cheerful Cursive this summer and I am hoping cursive comes more easily to her and is easier for her hands to do Bigger Hearts now, possibly Preparing after summer if finishes Cheerful Cursive and is doing fairly well. This year she wrote 2-3 times a week in our writing time--creative stories, poetry, journals. She wrote once in a while in our Apologia notebooks. Bigger Hearts She wrote some in DITHOR. We did no written narration--we are just starting oral narration. Beyond Little Hearts OR Bigger Hearts Her spelling is above average for her grade level, but I would say she is pretty average grade level on punctuation and capitalization. Bigger Hearts She really grasps grammar quickly--maybe she finds it more interesting She hasn't diagrammed sentences, but I think she could pick it up super fast. Probably ready for R & S English 3, Preparing She wouldn't mind working with her brother, but at the same time she is very competitive and tends to compare her work to her older brother's and that can be bad for her. Better in a separate guide than with brother She tends to be lazy (said as a loving mother) and will only do what she has to to get by. Bigger Hearts, more teacher-led She is very smart and very sensitive, so it is a fine line of keeping her doing her best and her confidence up

My 11 (12 in OCtober) yr old son devours books. He just read THe secret of Zoom, The City of Ember, all the BIg Nate books, tons of graphic novels, Hunger Games Series, seriously this boy reads 6-7 books a week (it makes me so happy). Some of it is not great writing--he reads a lot of silly stuff that appeals to his age (goosebumps, zombie chasers etc), but we do get some gems in there once in a while "Drawn into the Heart of Reading 4/5 Student Book" with 5/6 Boy Interest OR 6/7 Book Pack He read his own science last year--I read history, but he probably could do it on his own. Creation to Christ He LOVES to write--creative writing is his favorite thing-wants to be a poet. He is very excited about the poetry aspect of HOD. Maybe Preparing, probably Creation to Christ He isn't as excited about writing for subject areas, but does it. Preparing He also has done no written narration--this concerns me about jumping him to CtC. Preparing He is learning oral narration and does pretty well with it. Bigger Hearts or Preparing His spelling is fantastic and definitely above his age level, punctuation is probably average for his age, Creation to Christ but he struggles with aspects of grammar. I think it doesn't make sense to him. He has not diagrammed any sentences and can point out nouns, verbs, but has to be reminded of what Direct objects are, prepositions, etc. Preparing He wouldn't mind working with his sister--we did a lot of things together this year.Preparing But he is ready to be more independent--he loved getting his schedule in the morning and plowing thru his work, touching base with me where needed.Creation to Christ Multi-step directions are sometimes difficult for him, but I think he could handle it with some training and the guide in front of him.Creation to Christ He manages his work time well Creation to Christ--his sister is the one who lollygags and spent ten minutes sharpening pencils and cleaning out the sharpener, and then wiping the table down, etc. Bigger Hearts He does tend to shut down if the work is too hard. My son needs to feel successful at what he is doing or he gets super hard on himself and starts to dread school and that is what worries me about CtC. Preparing Math has always been a struggle for him and he has no confidence in his math ability--I put him in Teaching Textbooks 5 Creation to Christ for that reason and he is LOVING math and feeling confident about it for the first time in his life

I hope that answers some of the questions you had and paints more of a thorough picture of my kiddos!
Thanks so much,
Lisa

Ok, well, I am thinking that you have two possible options here.

Option 1: Dd does Bigger Hearts and ds does Creation to Christ. I like this for several reasons. Your ds would probably gain some wanted/needed independence. He'd probably really have incredible growth this year and a confidence boost once he hits his groove. He would read all of his history and science himself, which he is 100% ready to do. He would get to creative write with "Write with the Best" twice a week, which is an age appropriate challenge he would love! He would get to do all of the HOD guides and require zero tweaking through the years. Dd, doing Bigger Hearts, would have you all to herself. You could focus your teaching time more on her and help her to become a better time manager prior to doing Preparing. She would have training time in oral narrations and more guided writing practice before taking on the written narrations and the less teacher-led writing in Preparing. Bigger Hearts has daily writing in multiple subject areas, so this would be a good stepping stone prior to doing Preparing. She would also be able to finish all of the HOD guides and need no tweaking to do so. The flip side - ds could be challenged a little too much with the increase in writing more in various subject areas. However, he likes to write - I think he'd probably, on the whole, enjoy the writing in CTC anyway.

Option 2: Dd and ds do Preparing Hearts together. This has some positive elements as well. Your ds could do the extensions to better meet his reading level and history level, and he loves to read, so this works out well. Poetry creative writing is taught once a week, and he loves poetry. However, it will be easy for him, and Creation to Christ has poetry appreciation (though not creative writing of poetry) too. He would not be overly challenged, and he would be working with his sister, so economically this would work out well. Your dd would begin to read more of her science/history, though it would be tempting for you just to read it to the two of them as book sharing can sometimes be something to figure out. And, there is no reason your dd can't just read her own science in Bigger Hearts anyway. She won't be having creative writing lessons in Bigger Hearts, however, there is ample other writing that is more teacher-led, and that may fit her better this year anyway. She'd be doing written narrations in PHFHG, but having not done much with oral narrations, I am not sure how ready she'd be for this. With your ds being a confident reader and enjoying writing so much, I'm inclined to think he'll pick up written narrations rather quickly. I also think ds is ready to read - and at 11 yo turning 12 yo - should probably be reading - all of his own history and science, and he wouldn't be doing that within PHFHG.

So, based on all of this, I'm thinking Option 1 overall is a better fit all around. But, what do you think? Maybe certain factors stand out more to you and make which option would be better more obvious?

In Christ,
Julie

Julie
You gave me so much to think about! I honestly have never given any thought to moving my dd down to Bigger. I printed off the first week of lessons for Bigger, Preparing and CtC and my husband and I looked them over last night. We talked about options for over an hour. Both of us think CtC really would be too much of a stretch for our son right off the bat, so we are thinking he would place better in Preparing. We like the idea of our perfectionist dd being in her own guide--she just recently came home for school and needs some confidence built up. We really struggle though with Bigger--we are afraid it will be too easy for her. We both feel it would need a certain amount of beefing up to challenge her and I start to wonder if it is worth it... All that being said, I sat down with my dd this morning and we looked at the Bigger and Preparing plans and she LOVES the idea of being in her own guide, loves the art project that she saw, likes that it is more time with mom, etc. So i think we have decided to do Option #3--leave ds in Preparing, use extensions with him and let him learn the skills needed to excel the next year in CtC and put dd in Bigger, with extensions and anything else we need to beef it up.

So do you know if there are any threads that specifically address beefing up Bigger?

I appreciate your help so much! I know from lurking on these boards that placement is key in HOD and I love the idea of them each having their own program

Thanks so much,
Lisa

I'm so glad you and dh had some time to talk, Lisa, and it sounds like you have come to a good consensus! I am thinking this thread may be helpful, as you mentioned beefing up Bigger Hearts...

Carrie explains how to up independence in Bigger Hearts:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6502&p=47428

One thing I wanted to mention before you begin BHFHG and PHFHG - this will be a year with more teaching, as these 2 guides are HOD's guides that have the most teaching time. I do think this is doable, for sure, but just know going into it that every year after this will be less time for you and more independence for them. I have found putting my time in as a teacher in BHFHG and PHFHG reaps benefits long into the subsequent years of teaching. So, it is worth it. I just wanted to plant this little seed so you know that as you put your time in this year and help your dc learn those needed skills to be successful with some independence down the road that the next years will look quite different. Time will be freed up, and they will be confidently able to do more on their own each year. I think you have a good plan here and am excited for you to begin your HOD journey. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie