combining Little Hearts and Bigger

[netpea]

question for those of you doing 2 programs. Do you find it best to work with both kids on the same subject at a time or do you alternate one kid doing say math or writing with one kid doing history or storytime?

Do you find your kids want to sit through each other's storytime?

We will be doing Little Hearts and Bigger in the fall. I had difficulty this year getting my 7yo to do his math or writing quietly while I did anything with my 5yo. He wanted to be a part of everything we did. While that sounds great, it meant I had to do all of one kid then do all of the second kid. Am I expecting too much from him? He'll be 8 this month. Should an 8yo be able to do SOME work quietly while I work with his sister?

[Melanie]

LeeAnn, I by no means have all the answers, but I do think an 8 yo is capable of doing some work quietly on his own. I know, because I had to start my kids on some indepentant work this past year and they are younger.
It became a necessity for us, just to get through the day. They would do handwriting, copywork, and a few other simple things by themselves at the table while I was on the couch with another. It took only a few times with me supervising, and they knew exactly what to do. Just be sure and let him know what you expect. And I always make sure they show me their work when they've finished.
I don't have any other advice for you on how to do the different subjects, but Julie has posted several times on how she runs her programs, so that could give you some ideas.

You can do it!
Mel

[momof2n2]

Netpea,
You and I will be in the same categories!
This year what I would do is have 5 y.o. on my left and 7 y.o. on my right. I'd start 5 y.o. w/handwriting and then help my 7 y.o. w/his Bible Study work on my right. Then as 7 y.o. finished, I'd start him on his spelling. As 5 y.o. finished handwriting I'd then start him on his spelling and move back to 7 y.o. So while I don't have them on the same subjects, I would help w/introducing the subjects and then let them go. After the 5 y.o. finished his stuff, I'd dismiss him to play w/siblings. Then I would do the left page w/7 y.o.

I did find I had to do a LOT of teaching them to sit quietly to wait for me. We still haven't perfected it. I am trying to paint the picture of having to wait for ONE sibling isn't like at school where you need to wait for 19 others.

I hope that we can do some sort of hopping back and forth next year too. I will keep you posted.

[Kathleen]

LeeAnn,

We have this same issue at our house, and I think personalities play into it quite a bit. My oldest is a just-turned-8 yo boy, too, and he has never wanted to do anything alone. He has very wonderful aspects of his outgoing social personality...but tell him to go find something quiet to play with or do on his own and it's a torture sentence. My 4 yo daughter on the other hand has always been content to play by herself as well as with her brothers. I'm planning on having my oldest work quietly on his own while I'll do school things with his sister. He actually made good progress on finishing things independently this year. For us, letting Allison's time for LHFHG (when we get there...) be just with me will also be so she gets a chance to think and answer the questions without her older brother jumping in first. (He LOVES to talk...and is still a work in progress on not interrupting or talking nonstop...) If there's time in your day, I'd let them share the read-alouds.

Kathleen

[water2wine]

question for those of you doing 2 programs. Do you find it best to work with both kids on the same subject at a time or do you alternate one kid doing say math or writing with one kid doing history or storytime?

Do you find your kids want to sit through each other's storytime?

Hey there! I have to say yes to all of the above. Yes my little guys want to sit in on the big guys story time. Yes even that my big guys want to read the little guys books. And yes I do alternate.

What you are going to find happening if your kids are like mine. They will go through phases of wanting to be part of everything and at some point they will kind of get that what they get is great too, then they sort of come and go. I will be honest with you I was really worried about this at first until I realized two things that gave me peace.

1. Both programs are quick enough that if there was no alternating your day would still be very reasonable. That was a huge relief to realize.

2. Then my concern was but what will the little guys learn when they get to the big guys program. Here I realized even if they sat in everything the worst case is they would learn it with two sets of eyes (one as younger kids and one as older kids) and in the end they would just know it very well. And in practice Carries stuff brings out different observations and discussion with the kids every time so it would not be exactly the same the second time around. Honestly worst case...they will be really smart.

So bottom line all very reasonable worries that tend to just not really end up being a problem in the long run. I do flip between my kids and even in that each day for us can look different but they all work. So you will find a pattern that works well for you and not really event think about it. HTH

[netpea]

Ok, so perhaps I'm making a bigger deal out of it than I should...

When they are together, it seems that my older one blurts out answers to questions I'm asking my younger one and vice versa. Then my older one dawdles and dawdles and drags out his day. So I end up frustrated.

Maybe I am the one who needs an attitude adjustment. Perhaps a weekend spa retreat?

[water2wine]

Ok, so perhaps I'm making a bigger deal out of it than I should...

When they are together, it seems that my older one blurts out answers to questions I'm asking my younger one and vice versa. Then my older one dawdles and dawdles and drags out his day. So I end up frustrated.

Maybe I am the one who needs an attitude adjustment. Perhaps a weekend spa retreat?

Well definitely take the weekend spa retreat. But you are actually talking about something other than I thought you were. That would also frustrate me. I was just thinking you were talking about one listening on the others read alouds. I'm actually kind of impatient with that kind of stuff.
I'm off today. Sorry about that. Keep in mind I said I was off but I do think in that case you need some separation. Someone asked a similar thing once and Carrie gave a really good answer along with some other ladies who had great ideas on how to handle this.

Anyone know that thread?

[MamaMary]

Leann,

I did choose to do bible from ONE of the programs, instead of two. I didn't at first, but felt a tweaking in my spirit and after praying and playing around realized it was that I was missing the unity of all the boys and I meeting on the couch for bible to kick off our day.

I have 4 children and so I alternate around. I'll do the reading with the two in the same program and have my oldest working on math, while the little one tags along. Then we switch and I'll have the oldest working on chores while one of the boys works on math and the other works on spelling.

It's like a wagon wheel, they are the spokes and I am the hub. Because my alpha and omega are ten years apart in age, it made it difficult to work on the same subject at the same time. My oldest needs complete quiet, my 6 & 8 year old's need lots of help and input from mom.

HTH, (and didn't confuse the issue more
Mary

[6timeboymom]

Here's what we do, and you can take it or leave as you need!
14 yo does almost everything on his own. I'm available (and so's his teacher guides! ) if he needs me. 12, 9, and 8 are doing Bigger together. 12 and 9 will do handwriting, language arts, and math on their own while I work with 8 on his reading (he's just getting started reading) then we do the basic science, and history, and 12 and 9 do the extension reading/work for science and history. We do the notebooking together, too. We try to do the Bible first, but it just doesn't seem to work out for us, so we end the school day with devotion and prayer (And truth be told-we're all ready for some conversations with the Almighty by then... ) Usually we are done by one, which is lunch time, so we eat and have the rest of the day.
Well, except for then I work with 4, who does Little Hearts, if the 14 yr old hasn't already done school with him. Then I'll do Little Hands with 2, and then it's usually time for me to go to work.

I do have the problem of the 12 and the 9 who are oil and water together! They compete, compete, COMPETE and pick at each other, torment, and generally hassle each other to the end of the day. BUT-it's working to their benefit because they are constantly trying to one-up each other in the speed of competing assignments, the quality of their work, etc. We have worked with these issues since they were very young, and as they get older they are more mature with their competition with each other, kwim?
I mean, these two will compete in tooth brushing!! really!!
Anyway, it really made me question at first the wisdom of putting them to together. I was afraid 12 would feel insulted that 9 was doing exactly the same work, and that 9 would rub it in that he's doing 12's work-but so far, since they have separate math and language arts, it hasn't been an issue. And 12 is finally, FINALLY doing his school, and enjoying it! He's never been to public school, but it's taken me THIS long to find something that he will do, and that he enjoys. Just another way HOD has been a blessing to me and my family!

phew! longer post then I expected! I hope it helps.

[my3sons]

LeeAnn -
This is such a common thing to have happen! I have decided that I need to make the choice what things will work best together overall, and what things will work best separate. In other words - I've become the one that has the "final say" in this! And, I reserve the right to change my mind if anything isn't going well. Since I just finished LHFHG and Bigger... a couple of weeks ago, what ended up working in the end is still fresh in my mind. I've also been meaning to post a detailed description of our schedule too - in the hopes that it may be of some use to those of you doing LHFHG and Bigger... next year! I'm even going to put in the WHOLE schedule we used, including chores, etc. -just because that's come up on the board too and is a constant thing for me to consider (as well as everyone else, I'm sure!) NOT that this schedule is the end all - by any means - but if any of it can be of benefit to someone, then it would be worth it!

7:30 AM: Everyone gets up and cannot head downstairs until...
*beds are made
*rooms are neat
*clean clothes on
*teeth brushed
*hair combed
*hands washed
Meanwhile, I am getting the baby up and dressed, etc.

7:45 AM: Chores - 5 yo unloads the dishwasher, 8 yo lets out the dog and does one other chore on a rotating basis

8:00 AM: 5 yo and 8 yo grab juice cups, dry cereal in cups, and dried fruit and head upstairs to eat and play until 9:00 AM
Meanwhile, I am feeding the baby and getting ready myself. Baby has time in his room in his playpen with happy play music on and lots of toys and books, and then he plays out downstairs.

9:00 AM:
Everyone must be ready for school to start. All toys upstairs should be picked up. Dog kenneled. We say a prayer all together and "x" off the date on each of our calendars, noting any special things going on for the week/month.
Baby heads upstairs to watch his Barney video in his saucer for 30 minutes.

I start teaching LHFHG to 5 yo in the living room on the couch, left side of plans first. I read the "Reading about History" box first. Then, we do the rotating bottom left hand box next (Artistic Expression, Thinking Games, Science, or Dramatic play). If there is a science reading for the day, we do that before the activity in that box.
Meanwhile, my 8 yo using Bigger... begins his independent work at the kitchen table. He does his Cheerful Cursive, Preparing to Build (he read this on his own and chose one section to write - or I told him which section I wanted him to write - and then we went over it orally later). He also did his Singapore math workbook unless there was a hands-on lesson for us to do together.

9:30 AM:
Baby comes downstairs to crawl around.
Bigger... son does his educational computer CD at the dining room table.
LHFHG son and I do "Rhymes and Motion" box, "Corresponding Music" box in the kitchen/living room. Baby loves this!
LHFHG son and I head upstairs to our master bedroom to do "Bible Study" box alone where it's quiet. Bigger... son sort of keeps an eye on crawling around baby as he does his computer (doors are shut, house pretty child-proofed).

10:00 AM:
LHFHG son must play with baby in makeshift entryroom/playroom, door shut.
Bigger... son and I read "Reading about History" assignment together on living room couch. (He ended up reading this on his own by the end of the year - he wanted to and could. ). Next, we do "History Activity" box together at kitchen table.
Last, baby and LHFHG son come out and we all sing Bigger...'s hymn together, "Corresponding Music" box, marching around the kitchen, each with a copy of our music. Baby loves this!

10:30 or 10:45 AM:
Baby goes to nap.
LHFHG son does 15 minutes of an independent educational "game" at the kitchen table. We used puzzles, A Buki color by number/dot-to-dot, scissors books, Lakeshore boxes of things, etc. After the timer rings, he switches to listening to audio books on tape for 15 minutes with headset in the kitchen (my sister, parents, and I recorded books on tape, and also I bought some audio books).
Bigger... son and I do "Poetry" box and "Bible Study" box together on living room couch.

11:00 AM:
Baby napping.
We get a snack and a drink (coffee for me, drink box for them). LHFHG and Bigger... sons and I all sit on the living room couch as I read Bigger's... "Storytime" box to everyone. Older son narrates and is responsible for whatever is planned in the box. Younger son may not interrupt older son. He understands his part in this is to enjoy his treat/drink and listen.

11:30 AM:
Baby napping.
LHFHG son and I read and do "Storytime" box in living room on couch.
Bigger... son did his Copywork in the "Language Arts" box, studied for his dictation in the "Language Arts" box, and copied his Bible verse if it was one of the days he had to do that, all at the dining room table (so he could listen in on LHFHG's Storytime as he worked).

11:45 AM:
Baby napping.
LHFHG son and I did phonics on the living room couch.
Bigger... son did 15 minutes of independent reading anywhere he wanted (NOT upstairs near napping baby though). I made a shelf of extra chapter books I owned that I wanted him to read just for enjoyment that he chose from for this time.

12:00 PM:
Baby napping or getting up to crawl around, or just happily on my hip! The rest of us were at the kitchen table.
LHFHG son started on the "Storytime Box's" writing if there was any, then also did his "Fine Motor Skills" box, and last I did hands-on "Math at the kitchen table with him.
Bigger... son and I went over "Preparing to Build" together and his hands-on math lesson (if there was one that day) at kitchen table. If there was something to do for DITHOR first for me, I did that with him too. Then, I sent him to the living room couch to read his DITHOR.

12:30 PM:
Lunch for all of us. Children help with baby as we eat a simple lunch. We have quick and easy lunches the children love, sort of on a rotation (i.e. mac & cheese, hot dogs, nachos, chicken fries, salmon patties, PB & J, ham sandwiches, frozen pancakes reheated in microwave etc. with easy fresh fruit -bananas, apples, pears, grapes; cheese slice; go-gurt, and muffin). We often listen to an audio book on tape for about 15 minutes sometime while we're eating too. (Supper is a more elaborate and is more for dh and I to enjoy than the dc.)
Middle son dustbusts high chair and under the table.
Older son clears table and loads dishwasher.
I clean baby up, change diaper, etc.

1:15 PM:
Outdoor playtime for older 2 sons. If weather doesn't permit outdoors, indoors then. Baby does downstairs playpen time for 30 minutes, sometimes with a Gaither music video on within eye range. Then, he's out and crawling around downstairs by me.
Meanwhile, I set out frozen meat to unthaw for supper if necessary. Make as much of the supper as I can, either putting it in a crock pot or getting it ready for the oven if need be. Check what my wonderful friends at the HOD board have to say, check emails, make phone calls, throw in laundry - eat chocolate chips - whatever needs to be done most.

2:00 PM:
Baby makes a real mess of things, usually standing near the tupperware drawer and chucking it over his shoulder.
LHFHG son does his educational computer CD at the dining room table.
Bigger... son finishes DITHOR if it's a workbook page day. Then, he reads science (I read to him at the beginning of the year, but he took it over by end). We do experiment, narrating, etc. for science together.

2:30 PM:
DONE WITH SCHOOL!

Boys take 15 minute turns playing with baby. I pick up whatever needs to be, return phone calls, etc.

3:00 PM:
Older boys outside or inside for playtime (probably whichever they didn't do during morning playtime). Baby plays with them or just is by me.

3:30 PM:
Baby goes to nap.
Older sons continue to play.
FREE TIME FOR ME - which means I'm probably back talking to all of you!

The rest of the evening is meant for family time and relaxing. One other thing that we started that may be of use to you is the "Cleansweep". This is something Carrie and I came up with. The children and I "sweep" through every room in the house and make sure it is all picked up and ready for school the next morning. It doesn't take long with all of us working on it together, and I feel so much better and ready for school the next morning!

One last thing, when Carrie and I were talking about schedules, we both came to the conclusion that there are 2 VERY important things we needed to keep in mind...
1. We keep the order of things the same, no matter if we got started late or got "off" somehow.
2. We keep the time allotments for things about the same, that meant no going off on tangents and taking an hour for poetry when we've planned 5-10 minutes for it, etc.

So, sometimes school started later or ended later, due to unforeseen things, or maybe even just due to their outdoor playtime going longer because it was a beautiful day... but whatever the reason may have been that the actual time we scheduled got off, all things were still done in the same order, and subjects were not skipped. This helped the dc immensely because the schedule "felt" the same, and the same amount of work was expected of them each day - no "getting out of work" if we got off the times planned for school, and also no "flipping" between different days of the HOD guide of plans either. Forward motion... that's the goal!

WHEW! I know that got very long, but if it can help someone plan their day to fit their family better - great! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

[Kathleen]

Oh, Julie! Thanks for taking all that time to type out your schedule!! I kind of get to ease into doing HOD with Bigger and the rest of LHTH this year...then on to Preparing and LHFHG. We've had kind of a rough time getting a schedule together this year...and I've had a hard time being patient about it... With my husband's schedule - unschedule - he just hasn't ever come home at the same time in the morning or for lunch. We LOVE having him eat breakfast with us and doing our family devotions then, and it sometimes cuts way into the morning...which is ok except for the 2 days when we have afternoon committments. On those days I know I was often short and crabby with everyone because we weren't gettting the things done we needed to. We've talked about this quite a bit and I've certainly made it a matter of prayer, and I'm hoping that we get to a better solution this year.

I love your insight on combining for some things and setting groud rules for what's allowed and what's not.

Thanks for sharing your wisdom and schedule with us!
Kathleen

[netpea]

LeeAnn -
This is such a common thing to have happen! I have decided that I need to make the choice what things will work best together overall, and what things will work best separate. In other words - I've become the one that has the "final say" in this! And, I reserve the right to change my mind if anything isn't going well. Since I just finished LHFHG and Bigger... a couple of weeks ago, what ended up working in the end is still fresh in my mind. I've also been meaning to post a detailed description of our schedule too - in the hopes that it may be of some use to those of you doing LHFHG and Bigger... next year! I'm even going to put in the WHOLE schedule we used, including chores, etc. -just because that's come up on the board too and is a constant thing for me to consider (as well as everyone else, I'm sure!) NOT that this schedule is the end all - by any means - but if any of it can be of benefit to someone, then it would be worth it!

THANK you Julie! I don't have time to read thru the nuts and bolts right now, but I will look at it after I get home this morning. Its exactly what I've been looking for, a look at someone else's real day with the 2 programs.

One last thing, when Carrie and I were talking about schedules, we both came to the conclusion that there are 2 VERY important things we needed to keep in mind...
1. We keep the order of things the same, no matter if we got started late or got "off" somehow.
2. We keep the time allotments for things about the same, that meant no going off on tangents and taking an hour for poetry when we've planned 5-10 minutes for it, etc.

So, sometimes school started later or ended later, due to unforeseen things, or maybe even just due to their outdoor playtime going longer because it was a beautiful day... but whatever the reason may have been that the actual time we scheduled got off, all things were still done in the same order, and subjects were not skipped. This helped the dc immensely because the schedule "felt" the same, and the same amount of work was expected of them each day - no "getting out of work" if we got off the times planned for school, and also no "flipping" between different days of the HOD guide of plans either. Forward motion... that's the goal!

WHEW! I know that got very long, but if it can help someone plan their day to fit their family better - great! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Hmm, we aren't doing that, we do things differently every day, I see now that might be part of the problem.

I can't wait to get back later and read your post more carefully.

[netpea]

Thanks to everyone who responded to my plea for help.

I appreciate everyone taking the time to help each other on this board. It's such a blessing.

[netpea]

While my children were sleeping in this morning (after last nights dance rehearsal) I got to read through your schedule Julie.

WOW! Thank you for the writing that out! That is a tremendous help to me. I can see us doing something similar and I can't wait to work out my own schedule now.

It's truly amazing to me how insight into someone else's day can engerize you to make your own changes.

Blessings,

[my3sons]

While my children were sleeping in this morning (after last nights dance rehearsal) I got to read through your schedule Julie.

WOW! Thank you for the writing that out! That is a tremendous help to me. I can see us doing something similar and I can't wait to work out my own schedule now.

It's truly amazing to me how insight into someone else's day can engerize you to make your own changes.

Blessings,

Thanks, LeeAnn! And the rest of you as well! It has really helped me to see other hs mom's schedules, and I was hoping that mine might be a bit of help too. I'm getting excited thinking about next year with HOD! It's great to hear you are too, Lee Ann!

In Christ,
Julie