heartofdakota.com

Hello all,
Please allow me to introduce myself and my family. My name is Amy and I'm a mom of 7 dc with the nicknames below.
DD#1, Benna, will be 13 in the fall. She's an excellent reader who is almost done with Core G(6) of Sonlight.
DD#2 Nea, will be 11. She's a good reader and is most of the way thru Sonlight D(3) paired with-
DD#3 Wheelie, age 9, an excellent reader with a sharp mind. She is also most of the way through Sonlight D(3).
DS#4 Baron, will be 7.5 yrs. old this fall, he is a good reader, too, but his writing skills do not yet match his reading abilities.
DD#5 Boo, will be 6 in the fall. She is part way through The Reading Lesson and can sound out some simple words.
DD#6 LL, will be 3.5 this fall. She's a smartie, but is neither reading nor writing. She probably knows all of 3 letters. I'm ok with her not having a program of her own at this point, even though she'd probably enjoy having a special little time of her own each day.
DD# 7, Ju, will be almost 2, and is good at running around, getting into things and being a cutie-pie. : )

I'm planning to have DD 2 and 3 work on cursive this summer to get them up to speed in that area.

So, how would you suggest I place all of these sweet children in HOD and still have time in our day to do our farm chores, play, and engage in the non-academic pursuits that we enjoy? I love the looks of the curriculum, and like the idea of them having more hands on activities and more writing,as well as the godly emphasis. We've used a variety of curricula in the past, including some Rod & Staff. I plan to continue with R&S math and spelling at this point. We are doing School Aid's Climbing to Good English this year, but I'm interested in going back to R&S English, which would line right up with HOD. We've done this year with Sonlight, and past years have included a bit of CLP, and some MFW, including K, 1st, a little Adventures, and ECC (which is the year that the kids do not remember fondly.) We've all liked SL for the most part, but I do think the kids could use more writing practice, and as I look ahead to the books in the future, I have concerns about the content of some of the books. I'd also like to have our Lord woven into our program in a better way. One thing we haven't had much trouble with is the amount of books scheduled. My children devour just about any reading material that is available in the house. We also have a 2 hour rest period after lunch each day, which is their time to read, catch up on any unfinished school work, do hand work, etc.

Thank you for any words of wisdom you can share with this mama who feels like her head is spinning!

Perhaps I should be more specific. My thoughts are running like this:

1. Oldest DD working solo in either Res. to Ref w/ extensions or Rev. to Rev. She did R&S grade 5 English last year, and is doing grade 6 of Climbing to Good English this year. Will she be able to jump into R&S 7 in the fall and is this scheduled in either of these guides?

2. DD's #2 and #3 working together in CTC. They have worked well together this year and I think they would continue to do so quite nicely. Ancient history would be an interesting break for them after this year's intensive early American history. It would also give Sonlight another year to come out with their new IG to go with their newly revised history spine in case we wanted to switch back to that in another year (we already own all of the readers and read-alouds for Core E.)

3. DS #4 in Beyond (?) I think I'd place him as a really solid second grade level student or early 3rd grade in reading ability and mid-1st grade level in writing ability right now.

4. DD#5--Does she need her own program yet? She really isn't ready for Beyond, I don't think. Also, I tried combining her with DS#4 for kindy and it was like trying to mix oil and water-eek! I could use the MFW 1st grade that I already own with her, unless HOD is far and away better. Hmmmmmm.
DD#6--again, for my sanity' sake, I was thinking of letting her float by without any formal programming. We own lots of story books and there is plenty going on where she can get in on the action. I don't think she'd be able to combine with DD#5 b/c of the skills gap there.

Does this plan look realistic, or are would we be heading into burn-out land? That's a place I'd rather not visit!

Hi! Welcome to the board.

Was your second post based on what you gathered from the placement chart? That is really the best place to start.
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

I do feel from what you have shared that Beyond would be a good placement for your ds. Beyond guide really comes to life on American history, with practice in writing - but not overwhelming!
Since #5 is still in the Reading Lesson, and within the age range, Little Hearts for His Glory would probably be a good place for her. We are enjoying that now with a 5/just turned 6 year old. Just a thought there. It is an excellent guide with just enough work most days. (For my ds I had to add extra copywork, but that's it).

You don't have to add anything for the youngest two, but if you did I believe they would enjoy doing LHTH together. It as an age range for 2-5. I successfully taught it last year to a 2 and 4 year old. It only takes about 30 minutes, and made my younger ones feel important to have school, and caused them to be more content while I worked with an older child. It is set up to feel like a devotional style guide. I really loved that.

I'm afraid I can't help much with your older children. I have only done the guides through Bigger Hearts, and I am not as familiar with the older work that they did elsewhere to compare. It does sound as though #2 & #3 work well together and can most likely be combined. Hope this helps some.

Thank you for your insights, TrueGRIT. It's reassuring to hear that my DS would be in the right program. I've never held a HOD instructor book in my hands, so it's helpful to hear from a person that has really used it. It's neat to hear you were even able to combine your 2 and 4 yo together in LHTH. I forget that my little baby will be a talking toddler in just a few months!

The placements above are based on the guide that you linked. Thanks for sharing it.

Is there anyone else who might like to chime in? : )

laughable moments,

Thanks so much for sharing about your kiddos! We'd love to help you find a great place for them with HOD. One thing that will make a big difference in correct placement will be their level of writing. So, if you can share how well they each write and how easily it comes to them that would help. Also, it would be great to know if any of them have had formal writing instruction and how many times they are used to writing throughout their school day.

Next, if you get a chance to list a book or two that they are each reading independently that will help too.

Also, it will make a big difference how well the older ones read and follow written directions, how independently they work, and how much they have done on their own outside of reading their own books (i.e. like timeline, vocabulary, projects, research, mapping, etc.).

If you get a chance to shed a bit more light on these areas that will really help us advise you better. Placement is key in HOD, and you are doing a great job of patiently sharing about your kiddos! We look forward to hearing back from you when you get a chance.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you for taking time to chime in, Carrie!

I just did an informal reading test online to find their grade levels, and my kiddos placed like this:
DD#1- 9th-12 grade +
DD#2- 6th grade
DD#3- 7th grade
Ds#5- 5th grade (oops, guess I was really off on his!)

Here are some recent writing samples, since I'm not sure I trust my assessments. They will write letters to friends, make cards for people, and mostly only write for their English assignments, with an occasional story or poem written just for fun. They do not do any writing about history, geography, etc.
DD #1, age 12.5, comparative essay (obviously biased to our country location! ):

DD#2, age 10.9, comparative essay:
DD#3, age 9, a story she started on her own:
And one of my "keepers", a very apologetic note from DS#5, age 7.5, that he wrote unbidden after
a rough day last week:

It says, "Mommy I'm sorry for not obeying you I will try to obey you." (Thank you Lord for these sweet heart-melters amongst the challenges.)

As far as their current reads go, let's see...
DD#1 I, Juan Pareja, Managers of Their Schools (she loves "how-to" books)
DD#2 Children of Cloverly, Caddie Woodlawn, her favorite. A Christmas Carol, The Little Princess
DD#3 Caddie Woodlawn, Winter with the Moody's, (all of Sarah Maxwell's Moody books)
DS#4 Nancy Hanks: Kentucky girl, The Jesus Storybook Bible (He loves both of these books!)

Honestly, these children will read just about whatever books we leave around the house for them to pick up.

Carrie wrote:Also, it will make a big difference how well the older ones read and follow written directions, how independently they work, and how much they have done on their own outside of reading their own books (i.e. like timeline, vocabulary, projects, research, mapping, etc.).

They read and follow directions pretty well according to their ages (oldest needs least help, others need a bit more help.) They are pretty good at working independently. We have not extensively timelined, and mapping is an informal affair that usually needs a little help from me. They are all quite creative and like to do projects of their own design. My oldest can follow a pattern and sew a dress almost completely on her own (she's better at zippers than I am, phew!) The next two can do involved creative projects on their own with paper, scissors, cloth, cardboard, etc, and DS loves to build things with wood, nails, string, miles of tape , you name it.

Hope I haven't bored or overwhelmed you with too much information!

Thanks so much for sharing even more about your kiddos! This is hugely helpful as we discuss possible placement options for them!

As I'm sorting and sifting through the information about your oldest daughter, I think that she would be well-placed in RTR (Resurrection to Reformation). I think she will thrive in this guide due to her strong reading skills, independent work habits, and strong English background. I do think RTR will stretch her as a writer, as she will be writing multiple times throughout each day in various subjects as well as completing the formal writing program Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons. Doing a formal literature study like DITHR in addition to the rest of the workload in RTR will also be a step up, and I would place her in Level 6/7/8 for the Student Book Level. You could also look at the Level 7/8 Book Packs to use with DITHR. From what you've shared so far, she will encounter quite a few skills that are new to her in RTR that will stretch her as well. I would use Rod and Staff English 6 for her grammar. Heading into Rod and Staff English 7 would be a very large step up without having English 6 in between first.

As we look at your next two kiddos, I'd be inclined to place them in Preparing Hearts if you desire to keep them together. This is because I think that the level of directions to be followed independently in the CTC guide would probably be overwhelming to your 9 year old who hasn't done this sort of thing before. Preparing eases kiddos into reading and following written directions and into working independently. These are skills that take time to learn and go better if a child is eased into them rather than dumped into them instead. Otherwise, you may quickly find that all of the 'I' boxes that we intend to be done independently are now requiring your help and guidance and are not really independent! This then becomes a pattern as you move up with each subsequent guide.

Instead, using Preparing Hearts with both the Deluxe Package (of easier books that are used to teach the skill of following written directions independently) and also using the Extension Pack will make sure your readers have great books to savor. This will also allow you to add on DITHR Level 4/5 which will be needed for your kiddos (and will bring in new higher-level skills) and allow you time to do Rod and Staff English 4 full-speed with both kiddos. This will make for a full schedule of reading, writing, and other related skills like vocabulary, research, timeline, notebooking entries, step-by-step drawing lessons, copywork, poetry study, oral narrations, written narrations, geography, etc....many of which will be new to your students' day.

The science in Preparing is also used to train the kiddos in reading and following written directions, performing their own experiments, and completing notebook entries and lab forms. The amount of reading in science is kept purposefully less in order to allow the kiddos time to come along in the written part of science too. This is because science has so many other skills beside reading well that need to be developed to think like a scientist. If you used Preparing Hearts, your kiddos could also read their own history, since Charlotte Mason advocated that kiddos aged 9 on up who can read their own material should. This would work well for your pair.

As we look at your next child in line, I see two possible options. As an individual he places best in Beyond, along with the Emerging Reader's Set (following the schedule in the Appendix of Beyond each day for the year). You could start in the middle of the Emerging Reader's Set if that fit your son best instead. I wouldn't move him forward into DITHR until his writing skills have bumped up a bit. The spelling lists and gentle grammar in Beyond would fit him well too. Depending on how much history/science he's had in the past, one other possible option is that he could be combined with your next child in line in LHFHG just for the left side of the guide (history, Bible, rhymes, science, etc.) and for the storytime from the right side of the LHFHG guide. If you did go this route, then you would add the 3R's from Beyond's right side to your 7 year old's day in place of the 3R's from the LHFHG guide.

I do think the combining plan has some merit, as it would give your 7 year old some additional practice in writing and some time to grow in this area (which you shared that he is in need of) before getting him to Bigger Hearts too soon (where the writing ramps up quite a bit). However, I also realize that you shared that the two kiddos did not mix well together last year so that is a consideration too. It is possible that they may mix better as your daughter gets older and can do a bit more. So, I wouldn't rule out combining completely, as it could also make your day potentially easier. So, you have two possible options to consider there.

Feel free to share your thoughts, as talking through options helps so much and no one knows your kiddos better than you!

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,
First of all, thank you soo much for your help sorting through all of this! I really appreciate the thought you put into your reply.

I am very comfortable with your recommendations for my oldest three girls. Yay! One concern I do have: Will the 11 and 9 year old have enough independent reading fodder to keep them well-stocked? You see, we've read through Hero Tales w/ ECC. Also, we own, so they've read a # of times, Fam. Under the Bridge, Little Miriam, Pedro's Journal, Trojan Horse, and Minstrel in the Tower. Are there other reading options recommended in the program, or is that something I'll need to search out on my own?

I love the idea of them practicing independent working skills. Woo-hoo! Science experiments on their own? That's like a dream come true.

I'm still not sure where to place DS. The boy is a human sponge when it comes to reading or listening to books. He's already read 7 of the Emergent Readers repeatedly, including Sarah Whitcher and The Bears on Hemlock Mtn as well as a collection of A.A. Milne books and 101 Favorite Stories from the Bible. He's read other books about the Wright brothers. His reading comprehension is soo far above his writing ability. Long-winded stories of "I read in a book...." come in rapid-fire succession from his mouth. He does enjoy copywork, so that's probably something I should utilize with him more often.

DD#5 fits easily into LHFHG.

Thank you for letting me think "out loud."

laughablemoments,

Thanks for popping back to share your thoughts! One thing that will be good to keep in mind with your two kiddos, if you choose to have them use Preparing, is that this will be a different type of learning than they are used to in their day. From being a previous Sonlight user for several years, with my oldest son during his early years of schooling, I can say that moving to the CM-style of learning in HOD will be a shift. This is because with HOD we go with CM's slower, more thoughtful reading approach, rather than the book-devouring approach we came from in Sonlight.

This is not to say that my kiddos do not devour books in their free-time, as they definitely do! Rather it is to say that during school, we keep to the schedule in the guide (which can sometimes have the kiddos just reading a few pages a day in several different books). This is because along with the CM approach to learning comes a whole battery of skills that follow the reading, which on the whole actually looks at many areas of a child's learning (rather than just focusing on the reading and answering questions aspect of learning).

So, with HOD, your kiddos will read more slowly and more thoughtfully, which is a definite skill to learn. They will stop to pay attention to many different aspects of the literature. They will dwell with a book for a time, or "live" with it, until it becomes a part of them. They will ponder on it long after they have gone to bed for the night, and wake up wondering about it for the months to come. It is truly a different kind of reading, which takes some getting used to!

The books that you've listed that your children have already read will have a variety of follow-up skills attached to them. They are used as part of the Independent area of the plans, in teaching the kiddos to read and follow written directions. As such, I would have them read them according to the plans, as the skill is learning to read and follow directions independently (rather than teaching the skill of reading). The same will be true for the science. While your kiddos could probably read the science selections very quickly, they would then be missing all of the skills that are taught in science outside of the reading.

If we were only placing your kiddos based upon reading level, I would bump the second and third kiddos into CTC, but I think you'll find that there is much for your kiddos to gain skill-wise in Preparing, if you use the plans as written that will prepare them much better to be successful in CTC the following year.

Since your kiddos are avid readers, I would add the Extension Pack too. However, I'd still have them read them according to the schedule in the Appendix. You will also need to have your kiddos doing Drawn into the Heart of Reading, and there are book sets that go with that as well. I would probably have your 10 1/2 year old do the Level 5/6 Girl Set and your 9 year old could do that too, or you could do the Level 4/5 Girl Set with that child instead (or with the older one instead). These books will again be read slower and more thoughtfully along with the plans in Drawn into the Heart of Reading to get them learning the skills associated with formal literature study. So, in choosing books for DITHR, we're not looking to challenge them hugely with the reading, because the new skill will be the formal literature study that goes along with the reading.

Here is a link to the Extension Package (Scroll down to see it beneath the Deluxe Package): http://www.heartofdakota.com/preparing- ... ckages.php
A Link to the 5/6 Girl Set: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional5-6.php
A Link to the 4/5 Girl Set: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional4-5.php

For your son, you could also have him do DITHR, however with his writing in mind, you'd want to be his "scribe" and do most of the writing for him in DITHR. You could have him copy one or two sentences from the markerboard for DITHR each time. He would probably need the Level 2/3 Book Set linked here along with DITHR: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional.php

As you're thinking of your son, has he had much in the way of a formal history or science of any kind yet? This will make a difference as to whether LHFHG for just the left side and the storytime might be a fit for him. He will definitely need the 3R's from the Beyond guide though.

Blessings,
Carrie

I just had to chime in that I've enjoyed reading this and seeing some great placements emerge for your family, laughablemoments! I think you are on the cusp of having fine-tuned your placements for each of your dc, as Carrie and you have worked this out so well already. Did you have any more questions or thoughts about this? Otherwise, it looks like you are almost set. I look forward to getting to know you here - this is a board full of lovely Christian ladies. You will fit right in - welcome!

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you for your good explanation, Carrie. That is very helpful to see how HOD would look in our family. I've read through your answers a number of times so that I can digest it all. At this point, I am praying over our decision for the next year and talking with DH about it all. I really appreciate you taking the time to really explain how this works, where my children would fit, etc. This is SO helpful! I'd like to say more, but, ahem, too many distractions at this moment.

Thank you for your warm welcome, Julie. I read a number of posts by both you and Carrie when I was researching more info on the board to try to discern how HOD works with a number of kiddos. I loved seeing all of your pictures and examples of what your children have been doing in HOD. Thanks for popping in to say "Hi"! : )