Placement advice

[SCStxRN]

I have it heavy on my heart to switch to HOD for the upcoming school year; we start in July.

I will have a new 10 year old (C) and a 7.5 year old (J).

C is laid back and will do what is asked, only what is asked, without too much complaint. He is becoming more proficient in cursive and copies paragraphs without problem. He can sound out at a 4th/5th grade level, but comprehends better at about 3.2- 4.2 reading levels. He does not love to read, but we are working on it. He just finished level 3 of Math Mammoth because I was not happy with the arithmetic background he finished 3rd grade with – so we repeated Level 3 for 4th. He’s much stronger now.

J has Asperger’s with sensory issues. One of the biggest things that appeals to me about HOD, other than it’s unapologetically Christian world view, is the focus on developing the whole child. He just learned to stand on one foot, our victory of the week is hopping. He encodes and decodes c/v/c words without problem and is at the primer level on the Dolchi sight words. He, too, does not love to read.. and he fights when it is time to work on it. He knows his letters, but reverses J consistently (sometimes I think just to make me crazy). He hates to write. Hates is a weak word, really, for how he feels about writing. He’s half way through Math Mammoth Level 1.

Both boys love science; we just finished Mr. Q. Neither is the world’s best speller. I’m currently using All About Spelling to try to help with that.

I am ashamed to say that we haven’t done a lot of history. We read some – but it is definitely disjointed. Thanks to the recent election, both of my boys are well versed in the presidency, requirements, the parties, etc…

I'm virtually certain that I will be using two different levels; J is well behind in reading... I'm thinking BLHFHG for him based on the need to finish phonics and the general aversion to writing. C seems like he could either go with Bigger, based on his current memory work and (lack of) exposure to poetry, or with Preparing.. based on age and handwriting.

I just don't know which ones. Advice?

[amysconfections]

First of all, check the placement chart. It makes all the difference to place your children correctly. From your description I would possibly use Preparing for your oldest. Nothing higher than that though. For your youngest child I would consider Little Hearts( red). Mostly to give him time to slowly work on writing, gross motor skills, and enjoying school. Of course if you see something different on the placement chart then go with it. With having your oldest in Preparing it will help him build independence in his schooling.

[SCStxRN]

Amy,

Thank you for your response. I had initially avoided placing in LHFHG because (and I do know how silly this sounds) I was hoping to push J into a little more readiness.. the more that I read, though, the more reasonable it sounds to meet him where he's at and go from there.. I had placed C in BHFHG for the opposite reason; I know he has the basic skills so it wouldn't be as much of a stretch as Preparing.. and I figured that BLHFHG and BHFHG covered (basically) the same history content, so our time lines would converge.

Your response convinced me to do some more research, and I think your recommendation is strong. Thank you again.

[amysconfections]

Something to think about is your teaching time. Of course place them in the correct program first and foremost. But, in my experience BHFHG took way more teaching time an Preparing. So if your oldest places in Preparing then definitely place him there. This will keep you from tweaking Bigger to increase independence. It will also give you more time to focus on your younger son. You can always have a family Bible reading time, scripture memory, hymn, etc.

[Carrie]

The ladies are doing a great job of talking through options with you! From what you've shared so far, I would definitely lean toward placing J in LHFHG. I think he would find much to gain from using that guide and working on the skills wound within it.

As far as C goes, I am still thinking between Bigger and Preparing. So, I'm going to ask some questions to give me a bit better feel for what he can do. First, can you share a couple of book titles of books he's read recently on his own? Next, does he still need to sound out words as he's reading? Also, has he had much in the way of any formal grammar instruction, parts of speech, etc.? Was he used to doing much writing during his school day (i.e. writing multiple times throughout the day)? Do you think he is he ready for more independence, or would he do better with you directing him? Can he read written directions and follow them pretty well on his own? Is he a self-starter work-wise, or does he require quite a bit of monitoring?

I know this is quite a few questions, however they will really help shed light on your son's needs and skills. Thanks for your patience, and we look forward to hearing back from you at your convenience!

Blessings,
Carrie

[my3sons]

Hi there, and welcome to the HOD Board! HOD is unique because you truly can customize it to fit each child's needs - hence all of our questions! Thank you for sharing about each of your dc, and I think you are so wise to follow the Lord's promptings and follow what He has laid on your heart. Always a wise decision, right? I just read through this thread and found myself wondering the same things Carrie asked. Have you had a chance to ponder her questions yet? When you get the chance, and can try to answer those questions as best you can, I'd love to help you with fine tuning your placements! I'll check back to try to help. Just know placement with HOD takes a little time up front, but the blessing is a proper placement equals an awesome entire year of homeschooling. So worth the time.

In Christ,
Julie

[SCStxRN]

First, can you share a couple of book titles of books he's read recently on his own?
He's read all of the Captain Underpants books independently (because I refuse to read them to him!) He's half way through the second of McGuffey's readers. He still likes to read the star wars books in the easy readers series, but they are VERY easy for him.

Next, does he still need to sound out words as he's reading?
He never sounds a word out out loud - if he doesn't know it, he'll just go with visual and context clues and guess. Which makes me kind of crazy.

Also, has he had much in the way of any formal grammar instruction, parts of speech, etc.?
He has had some formal grammar, in terms of punctuation, subject/predicate, pronouns, basic adjectives and adverbs. If I used Bigger, I'd use R&S 3 instead of 2.

Was he used to doing much writing during his school day (i.e. writing multiple times throughout the day)?
He is accustomed to fill in the blanks type writing, but not to independent construction of more than two sentences. Maybe. He still needs to work on his cursive, he knows perhaps half of the alphabet in cursive - but he can copy paragraphs in print as legible as his father's (which, as my husband reminds me, just means he writes a little better than a first grader). If I used Preparing, I'd still have to schedule handwriting in there.

Can he read written directions and follow them pretty well on his own?
He can follow written directions. He follows them when they sound interesting - i.e. cub scouts, building something.... He needs prompting to get things done, but checking in every 15-20 minutes is usually sufficient unless he's trying to get out of something. Except math - he enjoys math and will do it with a nudge. He asks for science, and most of the independent reading that he voluntarily does is on science topics that interest him.

Do you think he is he ready for more independence, or would he do better with you directing him? Is he a self-starter work-wise, or does he require quite a bit of monitoring?
Here, too, is the rub for me. I don't know. He could do a little more on his own than he currently does - but he still needs some direction. The thing that calls me most about HOD is the progression in skills that I feel like we have missed so far. I want that for him. In reading the first week of Bigger, we could totally do that. And still have time for AAS and our extra science. In reading the first week of Preparing, some is totally doable, and some of it looks like things that he would try to get out of.

I guess what I really need is a time machine - because I should have done Bigger... which he would have fit PERFECTLY this last August... for 4th grade, then I wouldn't be having this problem. Now, he's half way between and I don't know which way to go.. but I'm really thinking Bigger.

[SCStxRN]

I have been doing more looking and praying and working on skills with my DC… still in hopes of finding ‘the perfect place’ for them in HOD.

J, age 7.4 – consistently decodes and encodes c/v/c words well. Does not like to write. Some letter reversals, but he recognizes them and says, “oops – backwards”. He hates to write… but he enjoys learning to draw and holds his pencil well. So we do a lot of drawing. Sometimes we even draw pictures that involve the letters. He’s still at the primer level for dolchi sight words, because I'm not fond of sight words as a method of learning to read. He consistently knows addition and subtraction involving numbers up to 10. He still reverses 2, 5, and 7 when he’s writing but he knows what they are and he 'gets' one to one correspondence. He has intuitively figured out halves, listening to me explain them to his brother. He’s half way through MM 1A which, I think, corresponds pretty well to Singapore.

He desperately needs to work on the motor skills in LHFHG – fine and gross - and he could benefit from the Bible and memory work, although he could just as easily memorize the material in Beyond or, perhaps even Bigger. He has a big brain up there; he likes to memorize and work puzzles. He has three favourite games – SET (the visual card game), Synonym – Antonym (give me a word that means the same thing as.. / the opposite of.. ), and relationships (Up is to sky as down is to [ground], Yellow is to Orange as Blue is to [Purple – you add red to each one]). He’s done just a smattering of grammar and enjoys Mad Libs with his brother and myself. The science that I see in LHFHG would be just enough to frustrate him. He’s into water, rocks, continental drift, weather patterns, and organ systems.

C, age 9.8 – as much as I want the independence in Preparing, I’m almost completely convinced that Bigger will be a better starting point for him with R&S 3, Emergent readers followed by DITHOR 2/3, AAS Level 2, MM4. The science still doesn’t look like what they’re used to – although I think it would be a good ‘intro’ into writing for the purpose of information sharing.

Everything I’ve read on combining kids says it’s easier to beef it up than to water it down.. which, in addition to feedback, is why I’m looking at beefing up Bigger instead of watering down Preparing.. part of me is wondering at what point beefing it up takes the simple joy out of HOD, but I don’t want them to lose the ground they’ve gained in the subjects that they love.. which is above their language arts grade level.

These are the thought processes I’ve run through and the conclusions I’ve come up with – and I would really like people’s input, esp. people who have come to HOD from either another curriculum or eclectic, instead of coming up through the levels... which in theory would avoid most of these problems, by developing the whole child.

I have thought about getting the LHFHG guide and trying to run J through it this summer for the Fine and Gross Motor, but I hate for him to feel ‘pushed’. I’ve also thought about buying the A-G set of these books and working through THEM for the summer + finishing our HWT first grade book and reading, then start BLHFG for fall.. but I think the art and poetry of HOD is what will make the rest of it tolerable for him. At the same time, I certainly don’t want him to fall behind where he’s at in spelling and math, and I think he will miss science – or demand to continue to do what C is doing in science as well... so LHFHG for the future school year would mean doing the LHFHG guide, plus math whose activities are not in the LHFHG guide - and he’s further along than the beginning in phonics and spelling. Would ‘beefing up’ LHFHG in math and science undo the whole sequence? Would it make more sense to do the LHFHG history and science separately with him, or just have him do Bigger’s history and science with his brother?

With C, I run into the same unbalanced skill set conundrum . Do we need the extensions to bring the history up to grade level (he would be a fifth grader in PS), or is it just more to read? We need stronger reading skills, definitely – but I don’t think we need more reading volume for volume’s sake at this point, per se.

Is it possible to ‘run through’ the emergent readers on an accelerated time schedule, to make sure his reading is ramped up to speed? I know Frog and Toad is easy for him – if we started there, with comprehension questions, and just stepped it up as we went.. would that work, or would that be rushing it? Are the Emergent readers coded with the history unit – would I be messing with his ability to make connections between history and what he's reading by doing them faster?

[MelInKansas]

I will just answer a few of your thoughts here with some of my ideas. I have been doing HOD with my oldest from the beginning and right now she is right in the middle of Bigger Hearts.

It sounds like your older son doesn't really need to start at the beginning of the Emerging Readers. I would start him somewhere in the middle or 2/3 the way through. I think on the HOD website where you can order the books it says the "reading level" and somewhere after the classic "easy reader" books (Frog and Toad, Prairie School) they start getting harder pretty quickly. My 2nd born is a guesser too and it drives me crazy, actually my husband also reads that way. I stop her and make her sound it out. Another thing you could do is find a reading Bible or story Bible that's on his level as both of the ones in Emerging Readers would probably be too easy and just go through a few pages or one story each day. That would make the Emerging Readers last longer - DITHR is a lot of analysis and from what you said about his writing that would be one more writing task to add in that would probably be difficult at first. You can do Emerging readers on any schedule, they do not go along with the history specifically. You would just have to keep your place separately as the guide has them scheduled for you to start and complete them on schedule with the guide. I did that, because we got ahead because I took a break where math and reading were all we did.

As far as extensions the books for extensions are chosen to expand the knowledge and discussion of the topics covered for an older child. If you can fit them in I would recommend them, it sounds like your son would get a lot out of them and then it wouldn't feel to him like he is doing a "younger" program. Some of them are science.

I think you could have your younger son do science with his brother if there are things he can understand and gain from it, and the activities are fun! I would recommend still doing the LHFHG science too, or if you feel that's below his level buy the Beyond guide and do the science from there. Was it the younger one you said needed help with sight words? Or the older one? The spelling lists are in Beyond, list 2 is in Bigger, you could go through those and compile words your older son doesn't yet know well and do some spelling lists with him for a little while. Bigger has poetry copywork as handwriting practice, if you aren't starting cursive yet.

There are adaptations obviously you will be making to the guides, but I think you will find that the completeness and the way things all work together in the guides, especially for history, science, and the rotating box adding in geography, art, vocabulary and things like that will really complete your children's learning. What I have found is that my children retain the information because we approach it on so many different levels. I wish you many blessings with it!