Going back and doing a missed guide? From Bigger to Beyond?

[waterandclay]

Hi there,

I'm trying to figure out what to do with my soon to be 8 year old (September birthday) second grade son. This year I combined him when he was a 7 year old 1st grader with his 10 year old 4th grade brother. We have been doing Bigger together with extensions for my oldest. It has been an awesome year. I had planned to do Preparing for both with extensions for my oldest, but felt so unsettled with this decision. I know my oldest places better in CtC, and my youngest really isn't ready for Preparing. He has done well in Bigger, but I know a lot of it has been a little over his head, and the writing was a strain even though he did it without complaint.

I really like the idea of having the kids hit CtC in 5th. I hadn't really thought this through when I planned last year. It seems that to me that moving through CtC in 5th and on up is ideal hitting the high school guide in 9th and not having to worry about adding to or subtracting from anything. I'm glad to have combined them this year, but they are spread too far apart to combine them successfully without someone getting the short end of the stick. This may not be true for other families, but I'm finding it to be true for the skill levels of my kids. My problem was that my youngest started reading at 4, and I didn't know what to do with him in K that I didn't think would bore him. Now I know after reading more about CM that I should have just been easier on him. Water under the bridge

Anyway, I was wondering if anyone had ever went back and did a guide that they had not already done. We started HOD this year, so I hadn't even considered doing Beyond with my youngest because I wanted them combined if at all possible. I know that I would have to amp up the skill for Beyond. I would require more copywork, would do dictation, DITHOR level 3 and possibly a few other things to add to the skill level. I would basically scrap some of the right side of the guide, but use all of the left. Has anyone ever done this?

[Kteni]

bumping this up and hoping for some input, this may be us the following year... anyone?

[countrymom]

I haven't done that, but I do have a young 8 yr old that has just begun Preparing and I am slowing it down for him. That would be my first suggestion, take Preparing at 1/2 speed and spread it out, giving you time to more slowly build those skills. I would hesitate to go down to Beyond and then into Preparing the next year. That would be a big change even if you tried to beef it up.

[allofakindfamily]

I think it would be fine If you plan to "beef up" the Right side, I think that Beyond is very engaging and the stories will capture your son's imagination. They are only little for a little while and grow up too fast. I pushed my older girls and if I could go back and do anything differently, I would have stopped to smell the roses and taught on the upper end of programs. (For instance, Beyond is for ages 6-8 --in the past I would have tried to put my 6 year old in it.....hindsight, and with my next generation of littles, I am choosing intentionally to use it with age 8.) I am very excited that I get a chance to enjoy learning with a new set of little ones

I have found over the years that it is so much easier to add in things, rather than try to slow a program down --- too challenging can be frustrating for a child and teacher.

BTW, your blog has really been a HUGE blessing to me. It was an integral part in our decision to use HOD -- I was able to "see" the program in action. I actually bought Bigger to use with my 8 year old and then decided that I wanted her to enjoy Beyond and work on her reading, writing & math skills more and enjoy the year. We are now in Unit 3 and just loving the program. We do use a bit extra on the right side (AAS/AAR) and I'm adding in Singapore's new Start Up Science (my daughter LOVES science), but I love the fact that we have room in our days to add or take a field trip without feeling overwhelmed. We are doing the full program as written, but are able to "add".

I'm sure that through prayer, the Father will guide the decision to best fit you and your family.

[waterandclay]

Thank you ladies for your help I love HOD so much, and I really don't want to set it aside. I know for sure I don't want to head into Preparing. I really think he will get so much more out of it if I wait on it. I know the skill level required of him in Bigger, so I can easily add to Beyond to make it more at that level. We worked through Cheerful Cursive this year, and he still really isn't prepared for the amount of writing in Preparing even half speed. I know the independent portion would be too much for him at his age and skill level. I really look forward to using Preparing when the time comes though. My other option was to put together a schedule from Simply Charlotte Mason using as many HOD and CM elements as I can. I was even thinking of using MFW ECC for 3rd after whatever I decide to do this year. I know....ideally I would stick with HOD (and I would love to.) Unfortunately I messed up placement, and that is becoming less of an option. If I knew last year what I knew now, I would have done Beyond, and then Bigger. Ah well!

Allofakindfamily,

Wow Thank you so much for your very kind words. It means a lot to me that I can help anyone (even with my little bit of experience) take a chance on HOD. We have really and truly been blessed this year by finding it ourselves. I am so enjoying learning with my boys, and so wish I had had the chance to learn this way the first time around. I agree that it's easier to add to than subtract from. The subtracting is kind of a bummer because those are skills they really need at some point. I'm glad to hear Beyond is going well with your 8 year old Hmmm......decisions, decisions!

[acsnmama]

Bumping this up, hoping for more advice!

[mom23]

I wish I had experience to speak from to help you here, but I'm glad you asked, because I was thinking about bumping my 1st grader up for a year to follow along with his brother in Bigger, and planning to likely go back and catch Beyond when he was in 2nd grade. I will say that I like Beyond for the 2nd grade level; although with both of my older 2 kids it's ended up being a 3rd grade year (8 yo). It was a great fit for my son at that age, but too light for my dd at that age. I guess I think that since your youngest was just tagging along during Bigger and not able to gain all of the skills to get ready for Preparing...I think he'd probably enjoy Beyond this next year, and being able to fully participate and engage in all aspects of the guide.

Here's my concern with this scenerio: jumping the next year from Beyond to Preparing. Since you do have the experience of Bigger fresh in your mind, and know the skills that builds up to, I would think you'd be alright to ramp up Beyond so that Preparing wouldn't be too rude an awakening. Although, (thinking outloud here) now that I write that, I realize that I basically did jump my dd from Beyond to Preparing, with only a few units of Bigger in between. I realized that I had mis-placed her in Beyond when we started HOD and decided to correct the mistake and put her where she would place skill-wise. She did very well with that transition, even without the building block of Bigger; but she was placing there skill-wise, and not just being put there because I couldn't do Bigger with her.

I hope I'm not hi-jacking your question here, but you mentioned wishing you'd done Beyond last year...are you wishing you'd had them seperate from the beginning, rather that letting your 1st grader tag along with his 4th grade brother? I'm asking because my kids are seperated now (in LHFHG and Beyond) and I was considering combining my middle two kids for a year in Bigger (as 4th and 1st graders), to help me gain some time to manage everything. I'd also love to hear from someone with experience on how well that worked over the long haul!

[waterandclay]

You can totally combine your kids of that age in Bigger, but for my particular kids it isn't working out long term. I really love the idea of being at the upper age range of the guide. If they are on the upper end of the guide I can some of the extensions because they would be ready for them possibly. For example in Preparing I really hate my guy to miss reading The Bronze Bow (amazing book!) or Adam of the Road or the like. I say I wish I had done Beyond this year, but that still leaves me with the dreaded gap year to fill. Even if I back up and do Beyond next year, I'm still left with an extra year to fill for 3rd. I know I can add to or subtract from the guides, but I really don't want to miss any! They're all just too amazing! If I did Preparing in 3rd, what do you do in 12th? Or if I did Preparing with my 5th grader with extensions I end up skipping something eventually. See what I mean? Yes I'm thinking wayyyy too far ahead ha! I know for those who are less type A than me none of this is a problem Carrie put so much thought into everything, and so combining really can work. I just am finding for my boys and their skill level, the upper age range of the guides is where they are falling (at least for right now.)

[Kteni]

I wish there was a "Bigger Still"

[Carrie]

waterandclay,

From what you've shared, it sounds like your 7 year old was able to handle Bigger and do all that was required in the guide? Just to clarify, would you say this is true, or did you downsize the guide in some ways to fit him better?

If your son was able to do Bigger as written, without modifications, then to move him back to Beyond would be a big shift backward. Then, to turn around and jump up to Preparing the following year would be a huge jump forward. Bigger truly does prepare a child well for Preparing, so I would hate to see that just as you are on the brink of reaping the rewards of all of the work you did in Bigger, for you to head back to Beyond (even beefed up) losing all the momentum with your skill progression.

With what you've shared so far, I would be inclined to place your 8 year old in Preparing. If you need to slow it down for your child, feel free to do that. However, I wouldn't be surprised if you find yourself moving up to full-speed after 9-18 weeks. Typically, half-speed begins to feel to slow after 18 weeks.

As far as your older son goes, if you've had a great year, then it is possible that your older son will fit in Preparing as well. Or, it is possible that he could instead move to CTC. To make this decision, I would ponder the placement chart very carefully and also take a good look at the first week of CTC plans, along with the level of readings he will be doing independently. This will give you a good feel as to whether he could jump ahead to CTC. It is possible that if your older one jumps forward to CTC that you will feel like you are more able to slow your other child down as needed. If your older child does not fit well in CTC, then you could always have him do Preparing full-speed instead. Both options would work.

If you want to discuss placement for your older child, feel free to share about him as well.

Blessings,
Carrie

[waterandclay]

Hi Carrie

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond! A little more background on my kids...

My youngest (7 y/o ds) was able to handle the physical work of Bigger, but sometimes it seemed to me that the readings may have been just a little too mature for him to wrap his mind around. A First Book in American History was always just a tiny bit past his reach though many of the books were perfect. He wasn't doing the vocabulary completely on his own. I would help him look the words up. He was able to do the poetry copywork. After a year in cursive I have found that he really needs a little more time to develop his fine motor skills. I fear that the amount of physical writing in Preparing would be way too much. Also after thoroughly reading through the Preparing guide, some of the independent work would be too advanced as well. While he was able to do a lot of the work in Bigger, I really think he would have done better if we had waited on it for him. I really think the independent history and science work in Preparing would require me more than it should. I'm feeling this especially after reading through the assignments for Draw and Write as well as The Young Christian's Introduction to the Bible. With all that being said, we have completely loved our year and have totally fallen in love with HOD.

I was thinking if I did Beyond for my youngest I could require the same amount of copywork required in Bigger. I think I could easily add vocabulary words to go with our readings once a week, so that he gets more practice with dictionary work. A mom made science and history notebooking pages for Beyond that would help bring up the skill level. We would continue with dictation and narartion. He read the DITHOR level 2 books this year, and is ready for level 3. The problem I've had with this particular kid was that he was reading at 4, but his hands haven't caught up with his mind. I'd hate to not do Preparing as you have written it. I really feel he isnt' ready for it even at half speed. I know I would have to omit a bunch in Preparing if we did it next year. I really want him to be able to absorb as much as he can from that guide because it really is so awesome! I started trying to come up with my own plan for next year, but then I realized how completely spoiled I am in HOD. I appreciated even more how much thought went into each day's work!

My oldest (10 y/o ds) placed in Preparing this past year, but I combined him with his brother in Bigger with extensions. The only place he was lacking was in cursive instruction. He is doing great now though after a year of Cheerful Cursive It was his first year home for HS, and I was a little intimidated to do 2 guides at once. I did add a few things to Bigger for him, but for the most part we did it as written. He has done a great job learning oral and written narrations. I was requiring 7-8 sentences per reading. We just started reading Bud and Me, and he gave me 21 sentences without my asking. He really loves that book! He has handled all of the extensions with ease. I started him in R&S 3 this year because he had little grammar instruction in PS. He has really enjoyed it. In fact, he once said, "I feel strangely happy diagramming sentences." Ha! I was wondering if I should bump him up to R&S 5 because it is done half speed in CtC and RtR. After reading through CtC and Preparing, I am feeling pretty confident that my oldest would place much better in CtC. He's smart as a whip, and loves writing. I think he could handle everything as written. I may even throw a few of the extensions in if he's handling the work easily (because I already own them.)

Another thing is that I'd really like to separate them. I never thought I'd say that. I know there is beauty in combining kids, but mine are very competitive. I fear that my oldest always barreling through work will eventually wear on my little guy's self esteem. He always plugs away and completes his work, but he really can't keep up with his brother's speed. I don't think he will be able to for at least a few years to come. The thing that draws me back to Beyond is that the more I read about CM the more I feel comfortable having one more gentle year for 2nd. I have seen the coming HOD guides, and they look challenging. I know we will get there eventually. I hope I've made some sense. Thank you so much for your wonderful guides. I have really found a home with HOD