Problems with Narrating CHOW - UPDATE

[ncmomof5]

My 11 yo ds who is a fifth grader has been doing Preparing this year. He has done pretty well with most of it, however, he really struggles to "get" the reading of CHOW and the Dinosaur science book. He has finished the Dinosaur book and moved onto the H.A. Rey star book, and he is enjoying that much better. Back to my problem - my son narrates Grandpa's Box very well, but he groans when we have to read CHOW. The last time we read it together I pretty much had to go back and explain to him what was going on because he couldn't seem to follow it.

I know that many people rave about how easy and enjoyable CHOW is, but for this dc it just is not that way and we are hitting the section of Preparing where this is going to be a lot of CHOW. I am just not sure what to do. He does much better when he reads to himself but with all the unusual names and places, he does not feel confident to read it on his own.

We have currently taken a break from it and he is reading books that he is able to engage with like Bound for Oregon. I'm just not sure if this is something that will get better with time or not, and I have not heard or read anyone else having this particular struggle with this book.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,
RuthAnn

[LynnH]

My ds was the same way when we did Preparing. I don't think it is all that uncommon. CHOW uses older language and focuses more on the historical events where Grandpa's Box is more like a story. I would give a few prompts when we did Chow or I would read only half way and have him narrate. He did get some better by the end. It was fantastic training for the books that would follow in CTC and on up. My dc continues to sometimes have trouble narrating things that are more unfamiliar to him or are about things that he has little interest in such as wars and details about battles. He is great if a book is more fiction in that he can relate to the characters and has a sequence of action that is easy to narrate back. For some reason it is much easier to narrate that type of book. I do continue to push him in his narration of more informational text because that will be an important skill as he moves up towards high school. He needs to be able to pull out the important information from this type of book. Carrie told me way back then that it is all a process and the narration is something that you spend years perfecting and I am finding that to be true.

[ncmomof5]

Lynn,
Lynn,
Your son sounds just like mine. When he was reading Bound for Oregon, he would come out of his room and go on and on about where the family was, what had happened to them, etc. But when it comes to more factual reading like the Dinosaur science book or CHOW, he really struggled. It has made me concerned about him being able to continue with CTC since I know the reading level ramps up there.

Thanks for the encouragement as I hear how so many people's children have enjoyed using CHOW, and that just has not been my experience with this particular child.

I guess this means that I need to try to help him stick this out, but he has a hard time when he knows that he is expected to "get it" and he doesn't. This happened the other night during family worship. My husband read a devotional and my son answered a question incorrectly. He really completely missed the point and he knew it. It made him feel stupid. He gets very down on himself when these types of things happen. My husband and I don't do anything to make him feel this way ( or anyone else in our family), this is just part of his personality. So, I guess I am a little concerned with how to help gently guide him through this especially as I know this is probably going to be an ongoing struggle for him.

RuthAnn

[Tabitha]

Do you have them re-read just the section that the narration is to be coming from?

Sometimes I'll have dd re-read it on her own, but mostly I'll re-read it to her. Then we will work through the narration together with me giving the prompts/asking questions and writing it down on scrap paper (meaning I write down her replies/her oral narration). Then she copies down the narration into her notebook.

We loved Granda's Box. Infact my dd proclaimed that "Grandpa is at school with us!" because my dad looks A LOT like the grandpa on the cover. My dd also likes CHOW. Sometimes she thinks it's not fun, but when we go for long periods without it she starts asking for it to be read. She might wander off in thoughts sometimes, but mostly she colors pictures/draws something while she listens to me read. She might even sit and do a mini puzzle. She isn't one to just sit and listen. It's amazing how much she hears and retains when I feel she is being distracted. That is just how her brain works.

[MomtoJGJE]

Jayden does much better narrating when she reads it on her own. But like you said, the names and all are hard for her.

What we do is she sits on the couch and reads while I do school with someone else. When she gets to a word she doesn't know she'll start spelling. I tell her the name/place. Sometimes she just goes on (like if I'm reading to someone else or explaining something) and when she's narrating she does the best she knows or even spells it for me and I tell her the correct pronunciation.

An example is the other day she was reading about Islam and allah. She asked for help pronouncing Muhammed (or however it's spelled) but in her narration I corrected her pronunciation of those things.

[Carrie]

RuthAnn,

The ladies are doing a terrific job of helping you talk through some possible helps. While CHOW is a narrative telling of history, it's important to remember that it is still a telling of history (meaning it is full of names, dates, and places that really raise the reading/listening level of the text)! This means that CHOW is a much more difficult book than a narrative story like Bound for Oregon. Both have their purposes. Books like Bound for Oregon are historical fiction, with one character who you stay with throughout the book. This makes it very easy to stay with the storyline without much effort. Books like CHOW are filled with different "characters" and places from history every single day. They are much more work to listen to attentively and harder to narrate from, because you really have to have cultivated the habit of attention to be able to narrate from a book where the characters and places are always changing! This is the habit we must seek to cultivate.

You can see, as I'm sharing about the differences between the two types of books, that they are fulfilling two different sets of skills. So, to neglect one or the other type of reading means that the child will then be missing a whole set of accompanying skills. Readings like CHOW are more similar to what children will be reading in history and science texts as they progress through their academic subjects (even though CHOW is much more narrative than a typical text). CHOW forces a child to grow and stretch as needed to be able to handle more difficult readings in this vein with each successive year. We are gradually working a child up in their reading/listening level gently guide by guide with books like CHOW, rather than making a huge jump in these areas when the child hits high school. Incremental steps are always better than a big, huge leap forward in requirements!

So, with this in mind, just be encouraged that we actually expect the readings/listenings in CHOW to be challenging. We expect the child to slowly gain in this area throughout the year. So, what should you do to help your child? First of all, it is a good idea to list any major names and places on a markerboard before the reading and read them aloud to your child, having him repeat them after you. This is something CM herself advocated.

Next, have your child read CHOW on his own. It is often true that children narrate better when they read something themselves. It is true for me too! As your son gets ready to narrate, have the markerboard there for him to refer to the names and places as he narrates. Don't jump in and explain the text to him, no matter how much you want to (as this actually helps you understand the text better but also means you are doing the work of sifting and sorting the information to make meaning, which is the work we need him to do)!

Then, do the follow-ups in the Preparing guide. Don't embellish or give a bunch of personal commentary. I know this is hard, as it is second nature for us to want to share our own connections or summarize for the child, but instead let the child share (even if it is very painful or very short). Otherwise, you are truly getting in between the child and the reading. If he cannot figure out an answer to a question in the Preparing guide, both of you should skim the reading for the answer and then you can run your finger under it and have him read just that brief part out loud. Often, kiddos feel they are not getting the "right" answer, so they no longer want to share. They would just rather wait for you to supply the answer. This is an alternative to that.

If needed, you can have him narrate after he's read a couple of pages. Then, have him read a couple more and pause and narrate again. If he shares anything, find a way to compliment him. Work to compliment his answers rather than asking for more information right now. Even a sentence or two is alright when you are learning a new skill. It will come, but it won't happen overnight.

Right now he is in the stage where he is seeking your approval, trying to find the answer that you feel is "right". All children do this when the material is difficult. He has to learn the freedom to share his own thoughts and connections, as he grapples with difficult material, without worrying he'll be wrong.

So, in short, I would go over the names and places on the markerboard before he reads (making sure he repeats them to you before beginning, so he has some comfort in pronouncing the hard words). Next, he should read CHOW on his own, pausing every couple of pages to share a sentence or two narration about what he read. Compliment his sharing, whatever it is, and don't ask for more right now. After reading a couple more pages, he should share again (just a couple sentence narration). Don't prod for more than what he shares. Just compliment. Last, do the follow-up in the guide. Don't add to the follow-up with any commentary, just do what is there. Help him skim for answers if needed and run your finger under the answer for him in CHOW to read it aloud, but don't answer for him. If he doesn't share much, do not have him reread. Just keep moving forward each day, keeping the lessons short and sweet. You will see progress, but it will take up to 9 weeks. So, be patient! Just know the growing pains you are experiencing are expected, and you're not alone.

Blessings,
Carrie

[ncmomof5]

Ladies,

Thank you all for taking the time to answer. I really was ready to throw in the towel. Learning has always been a struggle for this child, and I work hard at finding the programs and curricula that will help him succeed. It is exhausting, at times. I appreciate your thoughts and ideas on how to make this work and for letting me know that I am not the only one who has dealt with this.

Carrie,

Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to give me such a thorough, encouraging response. I can see clearly what I need to do. I can also see the benefit of learning how to read this kind of book. When my 2 older children hit Apologia General Science, it was quite a shock to have to read and assimilate so much information. I wish that I would have worked more diligently on this skill over time to better prepare them for the higher levels of reading that is now being required of them.

Please pray that he will be okay with trying this book again, and that I will know how to encourage and compliment him as we work on this skill. Thanks again for all your thoughts and help.

In His love,
RuthAnn

[Carrie]

RuthAnn,

I prayed for you and your son this evening as you return to CHOW. Hopefully, it will help that you are approaching it a bit differently, with the markerboard names/places first and then having him read it on his own, coming to you after just a couple of pages to share anything he might recall. (Just a couple of sentences - no presesure). You could just respond, "Oooh that sounds interesting!" Or, "Really? I didn't know that!" Or, "Wow, I had no idea that _____ (and then repeat back a bit of what he said)!" Or, "That sounds exciting!" Or, "I never knew that _____ (and share a bit of something he mentioned). Or, "Oh that makes me want to know more!" Or, "Now, you've got me wondering what will happen next. I'll be interested to hear more about this as you keep reading!"

We're glad to help and encourage as you keep on going!

Blessings on your journey,
Carrie

[ncmomof5]

Carrie,

Thank you so much for your prayers and again for your encouragement. I wanted to let you know how it is going. I haven't had to write too many names on the board as I realized that a lot of the big/unfamiliar names have pronunciation keys right in the book. So, we just look over those before we start. What has been working:

He reads 2 pages out loud to me (with me sitting right there listening) and then narrates what he has connected to in that section. He then goes on and reads the rest of the chapter and narrates again at the end. I am excited and amazed that reading it this way, he is starting to connect with this book. He is picking up on the little funny things that Hillyer notes about the characters. For example, he got quite a kick out of Socrates' wife dumping water on his head and he even got Socrates' pithy little response, "After thunder, expect rain." That's amazing for him.

I am thrilled that we have continued on with this and have found a way to help him read, enjoy and learn from CHOW. Thanks, again, Carrie, for your specific helps that have helped me approach this from a different perspective.

RuthAnn