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Maybe I jumped ahead in my thread "Starting with MtMM." As I stated before, DS is in the 9th grade and I feel I want to switch him to HOD for the rest of High School. Would that be crazy? Anyway, he is doing American History this year using Notgrass. So do we even need to do MtMM and if not, do I have an other option? Sorry for the confusion, I get really lost when I try to start figuring out the High School extensions and credit things. Can you help me out, like always? Thanks!

OK, I continued reading on here after I posted this thread. I now see that we would start with the new guide, World Geog.

Now my concern is, would it be hard for someone new to schooling HOD's way to start this late in the game? Anyone have an opinion on this?

I think it would be just fine.

Have you shown your child a sample week from one of the guides to get their thoughts?

Perhaps there may be an adjustment period, and have an allowance made for that.

I'll be praying for a smooth transition. The board is full of awesome help, too!

Tabitha wrote:I think it would be just fine.

Have you shown your child a sample week from one of the guides to get their thoughts?

Perhaps there may be an adjustment period, and have an allowance made for that.

I'll be praying for a smooth transition. The board is full of awesome help, too!

I haven't done that, but plan to today!

Thanks for your prayers!

glperky,

If you get a chance to look at the placement chart that may help you somewhat with your decision. Link:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

As we continue to share sneak peeks for the new geography guide, I know that will help clarify things for you too. We will also be updating the placement chart to add a column for the new geography guide by April, which will help too.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie wrote:glperky,

If you get a chance to look at the placement chart that may help you somewhat with your decision. Link:
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

As we continue to share sneak peeks for the new geography guide, I know that will help clarify things for you too. We will also be updating the placement chart to add a column for the new geography guide by April, which will help too.

Blessings,
Carrie

So,if he would have to start way far back in the guides because he has never done some of those things before, so I just forget it? Or teach him using the World Geog. Guide?

Well, I'd never say just forget it! There is a placement that is right for each student, and all we have to do is find what is right for your ds, and start there. It never works to fast forward and place dc in guides they are not prepared for, but sometimes dc can learn quite quickly how to do things as well, especially as they age. There are some students doing the CTC through MTMM guides for their 4 high school years, and truly loving that! Yes, there are extensions they are adding, and yes, counting credits is something they refer to the board for help on, but it is totally doable. Other students may eventually be doing the Geography guide plus the 3 guides to be written after that for high school, and between these two possibilities, all other scenarios are feasible too. So, we don't have to forget it - we just have to figure it out! And I'd be glad to help with this, as would others I know! When you look at the placement chart, where does ds seem to place in reading, writing, math, grammar? When you say 'he has never done some of those things before,' which things do you mean? Bear with me for a few more questions please - how independently does ds work well? When you look at the MTMM guide's first week of plans, for example, how would he do on the "I" independent boxes? What would he do well with, and what might be a challenge? Has he done Charlotte Mason type stuff before, or would this be new mainly? In general, a little info on how he is doing with his reading and writing would be awesome to know, as well as what he is doing for grammar and math now. I am confident we can get a good plan figured out for your ds - I just want to be sure we give advice that is good for him specifically, so if you could get back to me on this, I will gladly chat this through with you - as will others I know! Don't despair - we will get this all figured out, and when we do, we'll have a super plan in place for your ds's high school years.

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote:Well, I'd never say just forget it! There is a placement that is right for each student, and all we have to do is find what is right for your ds, and start there. It never works to fast forward and place dc in guides they are not prepared for, but sometimes dc can learn quite quickly how to do things as well, especially as they age. There are some students doing the CTC through MTMM guides for their 4 high school years, and truly loving that! Yes, there are extensions they are adding, and yes, counting credits is something they refer to the board for help on, but it is totally doable. Other students may eventually be doing the Geography guide plus the 3 guides to be written after that for high school, and between these two possibilities, all other scenarios are feasible too. So, we don't have to forget it - we just have to figure it out! And I'd be glad to help with this, as would others I know! When you look at the placement chart, where does ds seem to place in reading, writing, math, grammar? When you say 'he has never done some of those things before,' which things do you mean? Bear with me for a few more questions please - how independently does ds work well? When you look at the MTMM guide's first week of plans, for example, how would he do on the "I" independent boxes? What would he do well with, and what might be a challenge? Has he done Charlotte Mason type stuff before, or would this be new mainly? In general, a little info on how he is doing with his reading and writing would be awesome to know, as well as what he is doing for grammar and math now. I am confident we can get a good plan figured out for your ds - I just want to be sure we give advice that is good for him specifically, so if you could get back to me on this, I will gladly chat this through with you - as will others I know! Don't despair - we will get this all figured out, and when we do, we'll have a super plan in place for your ds's high school years.

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you Julie,

I would say that my DS would struggle with written narration, as he can't write a paper to save his life. We haven't done dictation since he was in 5th grade. As far as reading, he read well and loves to read but hasn't had much experience with a formal literature study. He did do a half a semester one with CLE, but that is it. For grammar we have been using Daily Grams and Easy Grammar and for math Teaching Textbooks. Bible he would have no trouble. Working independently, he would have no trouble. He does that daily and has for years. He would have more trouble working with me then he would by himself. Oh, and he is doing American History this year using Notgrsss. Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more information.

This DS has always given me a run for my money when it comes to school. It comes easy to him but he doesn't like to do it at all. I guess I just never found a fit and he doesn't want to put in the effort. I think HOD would have been the fit but not sure if this late in the game he'll want to put in the effort to make it a hit.

ETA: the only note booking he has done is one year with Apologia Anaromy. He enjoyed it.

While I cannot claim to be an expert as we're in our first year with HOD, I can speak to the experience of switching from a classical mindset to CM methodology. It takes some time, so I decided to focus on one new skill at a time. My girls are strong in their grammar skills, so we first learned the habit of dictation. During this time, while they still did their oral and written narrations, but I allowed them some slack in these other areas. It took about a week and a half to get dictation to the point where they understood what to do and the reason for it. Next we focused on written narrations, and then moved to oral narrations. Are you planning to follow the guide to a T, or are you going to be using something different? If your current grammar and math are working for him, then perhaps now isn't the time to change that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right? You could keep going with those if they are working, and merely add in the other components - history, science, literature, Bible and writing. That might make the learning curve a bit less for your first year, and you could change those up later if you choose. As for the notebooking aspect, in my opinion you do not need to have any experience at all with notebooking to be successful with an HOD notebook. Carrie has the instructions for every box well explained, and they are really a way for students to have some hands-on interaction with the information they are learning. I will also say this. I placed my second DD in a higher level than most people on the board would have probably advised because I knew that part of her struggle with school is that she was bored. She is flourishing this year because RTR is enough of a challenge to her that she doesn't have time to be bored! So if there is that element with your DS, it might not be a bad idea to consider starting him in the Geography guide in the fall. (I couldn't tell for sure if you were thinking to change right now or wait until the fall. If you are waiting until fall, you could use the rest of this year to add a few skills to his schedule to help prepare him for next year. Dictation, for example, or you could require him to write a one paragraph summary from his Notgrass readings.) It could work if you allow him to slowly learn any new skills or catch up on the ones he is weak in. Of course, you'd have to consider what credits he needs as well. Otherwise, I'm fairly confident that a slow easing into MTMM would fit him just fine.

Blessings.

Thank you Jennifer. I PMed you some questions. I hope you don't mind.

Thanks so much! From what you've shared, I would not start with the Geography guide, as other HOD guides will offer more help in the way of learning to properly do written narrations, developing solid writing skills, and practicing oral narrations with guidance from the Appendix. The Geography guide will assume he has these skills down and will not offer much in the way of "help" in these areas. When you look the placement chart, where does he fall in LA subjects? This will be key in placement. Choosing a guide that is beyond what he can do will result in him being more dependent on you to do things he should be doing independently. For teenage boys especially, it seems this causes some friction - they tend to like to do things more independently. This is the way God designed them - so it is a good thing! But, if a guide is beyond what a young man can do, mom needs to step in and help too much. I am wondering what his age will be when he begins as well, if you get the chance to share that.

I agree with pp that the notebooking is clear, and if he can follow directions well, he will do just fine! But in the skill areas of written narrations, oral narrations, dictation, writing skills, outlining, summarizing, writing reports, formal literature study, etc., other HOD guides (paired with "Drawn into the Heart of Reading") will be well suited to your ds's needs. Extension packages make it easy to extend the guides in the area of history, DITHOR is worth a freshman intro to lit credit, and it is easy to choose appropriate math/LA with any guide. The Introduction and Appendix of each of the guides in the "Hearts for Him Through Time" series are full of so much help in these areas - I think you will find the guidance he needs and be so glad to have it. If you can, try to put the age aside as it is really just one thing to consider in placement, and as age ranges make it easy to choose many different placement options with HOD. Instead, focus on the guide you think ds is best suited to do academically based on the skills noted in the placement chart. Looking at the placement chart, from what you've shared so far, I think ds places in RTR or RevtoRev for Reading (as he has not had formal lit study), but please do correct me if I'm off there.

I am unsure where he places for writing and grammar. For writing, I know he hasn't had dictation, and you'd mentioned him not writing many papers. So, that information really helps! Thanks for sharing that. I think dictation can easily be done in any guide because many levels are offered, but other writing considerations would be, how much he is used to writing each day (i.e. 8-10 sentences, 10-14 sentences, or 12-16 sentences) and if he is used to proofreading his writing and making editing corrections. Also, it makes a difference if he has had formal writing instruction, such as "Write with the Best" or "Medieval History Writing Lessons" type stuff. R & S English is different than many grammar programs as it includes much in the way of instruction of step-by-step clear writing. Writing reports, outlining, summarizing, note taking, etc. are all part of R & S English - diagramming is as well. If his grammar program has not included these areas of instruction, this will be new and important he is not thrown into the deep end in these areas. I am wondering if you could look at the placement chart columns of RTR, RevtoRev, and MTMM for writing and grammar, and also at reading to be sure I'm not off there, and let me know where he best places? Then, I think we'll have a more solid placement suggestion. I know this takes a little time, but it is so worth it as a year of instruction hangs in the balance. I want it to be the best year ever for ds and you, and correct placement usually accomplishes that!

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you Julie for your help and time. All the ladies here are such a huge help and blessing.

I would say for Reading I would say he would fall in RtR and Grammar would be between CtC and RtR and for writing PHFHG. He can write in cursive very well and can copy passages in cursive, but can't do the dictation, narration and has a hard time with creative writing. He has a hard time writing even a paragraph. This year for formal writing he is using Hands on Essays. It doesn't seem to be helping much. Hope this helps. Please let me know if you need more.

Thank you so much for responding! I really appreciate it as it helps me feel like my advice is more on track rather than me just throwing something out there as a guess, which I really don't like to do as guessing is not helpful when it comes to placement. I am thinking that RTR may be a good placement, but what do you think? RTR is such a neat guide, and it really is tailor-made to capture boys' interests, IMO! The extension package is full of really good reading as well. The written narrations are kept to 8-12 sentences in history and science, and the writing in general is less than in the next guides, but still meaty enough. You could have him begin with 5-7 sentences and work up to the 8-12. Once a week will help ds learn to write a short summary for one of his Reading about History follow-ups too, which will be great! Oral narrations are included in Reading about History, Storytime, and Science as one time a week for each follow-ups, so he'll get great practice in this area, which really helps dc with their written narrations too without requiring as much writing. "Medieval based History Writing Lessons" from IEW will offer solid writing skills and teach key word outlining well. You can eventually add the extensions if you would like in IEW, they are included all along the way and can be added if you want, but to begin with - I think I'd start without them. DITHOR 6/7/8 will be a great fit, and it is scheduled just 3 days a week. For grammar, I think ds can start with R & S English 5, and just have ds do a lesson each day to complete it in a year. Doing it mainly orally will help, which is what HOD recommends standardly. Assigning just one section to write is a good way to go about doing it, as it helps dc clip along more with their lessons without too much writing, yet still covers the same content nicely. Dictation - you can just start at Level 4 and see how it goes, moving forward to passage 50 if ds is passing them all. I would not worry about racing through dictation. It does the trick by slow and steady, so starting where ds fits best is the way to make real progress.

The research box will have ds learning to research using either a general encyclopedia or wikipedia free online. The Art Appreciation box is unique to this guide, and is a lot of fun! The Shakespeare Study is optional, but we sure enjoyed it. The students just read from Lamb's resource and then copy a short quotation under a beautiful die-cut picture they have colored in their Shakespeare student notebook. I'd probably do this with ds, as it is a painless, fun intro to Shakespeare that is very manageable to do and independent. For science, I think I'd just do it as is for now and let this be a year to focus on LA skills more. Next year, you can have ds do the advanced Physical Science in RevtoRev for high school credit, so smooth sailing there. The devotional boy study was awesome in RTR! "Boyhood and Beyond" is priceless and offers mamas so much help in raising sons. If you have not already done something like it, I highly recommend it.

I'm excited about RTR for ds. I think it is such a super guide for young guys - very exciting stuff, full of masculine themes and heroic deeds. Neat, neat materials. So, those are some thoughts I had, but what are your thoughts?

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you again Julie.

RtR was what I was thinking also. But then what would be the plan for 11th and 12th grade as he has already done American History this year and it is my understanding the Rev2Rev and MtMM are American History?

Also, is Dictation level 4 in RtR? And can you point me to a thread that will help me understand how to make RtR high school credit worthy and is there a list of high school level books to use with DITHOR?

ETA: can he get a whole credit for World History with RTR?

Sorry for all the questions! I just don't understand all of this.

glperky wrote:Thank you again Julie...
Glad to help!

Also, is Dictation level 4 in RtR?
Yes! Levels 4, 5, and 6 are included in RTR.

Let me check on the rest of your questions and get back to you here!

In Christ,
Julie