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and how old is the child in RTR? What other guides has the child done prior to RTR? I know several are finding it to be a very, very full day and others are having no issues. I'd like to find out from the crowd here

DD12 seventh grade
Takes around 4 hours start to finish. Includes doing math, language arts box, and all other boxes (including Shakespeare). She reads story time to herself--we have the extension readers but haven't felt the need for her to use them. It is so full as it is. She follows my IEW writing schedule which has her writing every day since I am teaching a class on the medieval based writing lessons. We have to stay on schedule with that class. We do a different poetry so 1 day per week she gets to skip that box. The history readings are very LONG, so I have been reading that to her (and I like to read it out loud anyway). The science is very light and we have done many of the experiments in the past so it's relatively easy for her to complete on her own. I'm considering beefing that area up but don't really feel the need to because its fine the way it is written. The only thing neither one of us really like is the art appreciation box--I DON'T KNOW why but it is just such a boring book, not sure if we will continue that. I am also teaching a Middle Ages art class so probably we will drop that book. Notebooking is going well and there is a pattern so she is used to it. I just wish the replacement pages for the next 3dc weren't so pricey! I suspect she has dysgraphia and dyslexia which is why I have been reading the history to her and sometimes I let her copy the key idea instead of written narration for history but no need to really. This guide is perfect for this age/grade level. When I consider what her school age friends are doing it is honestly enough as written! Also this is her first HOD guide.

My ds did it last year. He was 12 and had done Preparing and CTC prior to doing it. It took him an average of 4 1/2 hours a day with some days taking longer, but never more than 5. He did everything as written except he didn't do Shakespeare, but that was only 1 day a week. We did IEW as scheduled. He did do a different math that some days took awhile. I read the storytime to him, but he did all the history reading himself. He loved the art appreciation box and then he used what he learned when we went to the art museum this summer.

Now Rev to Rev this year is taking him an average of 5 1/2 hours.

I have a 7th grader in RTR this year. We actually began this guide at the end of last school year. We had absolutely no trouble whatsoever transitioning into this guide right after CTC. I should also mention, that he started out doing Preparing, then did CTC, and now on to RTR.

That said, this year doing RTR has been a bit different. We've been having some LONG days here this year, but they are getting better. I think it has to do more with his age (12), and focus issues because of said age, than it does with the guide itself. Like I said, last year he was doing really great with his days, and even getting things done early each day. He was usually spending about 4-4.5 hours doing school at the end of last year. This year those days are much longer because of the issues I mentioned earlier. One of the things we've found really helps him this year, is to get up earlier than his siblings and do most of his history readings (and Shakespeare on those days), before the busyness of the day begins. He's really come to enjoy this time of the day when he has a nice quiet time of day to focus on his readings without interruption. (Did I mention he's the oldest of five kids! ) This has made such a difference in the length of his days, and his enjoyability of them!

Another thing I'd like to mention, is that we've noticed he's spending a lot more time putting more detail into his work. His notebooking pages, independent history study drawings, and science notebooking and experiment pages are all very detailed and artisticly done. This is something that we've noticed is an area that was using up more of his time. We suggested spending less time on the detail of everything. He was horrified! He wanted to spend the time to put his best quality into his work! This is a really good problem to have, and I think, a direct result of using HOD these last three years! However, we still needed to fix the time problem. That's when we stumbled on him starting his day earlier. It gave him the clarity of mind early in the day for the longer readings to be done, and allowed him more time later on in the day to spend on creativity and detail. I say all of this because every student is different and their day looks differently, too. It's nice to have a guide so well laid out, so we can make adjustments when needed to meet them where they are at, without sacrificing any of the wonderful learning opportunities in the guide!

I'll also just mention quickly that it does take a few weeks to really get into how the guide works and develop a nice flow to your day!

ETA: We have absolutely LOVED all of the book selections so far! (And we're on unit 18!) All of the storytime books have been a real delight to read through together, and he's loved the history books, too! I'll also add, that we have not had any trouble with the Art Appreciation book. We've loved reading through it, and learning so much about art, painting, and the work that has gone into this worthy skill!

I have a 12 year old boy in 6th grade doing RTR, need to say we are not doing the Shakespeare section. He takes about 4 to 4 1/2 hours, when he is focused and on task! We are truly enjoying the year and learning ALOT. He does the storytime reading independently, the devotion section with Dad and I do the other "T" boxes with him. He has completed from Beyond and up with HOD. I hope all of the answers from these wonderful ladies helps.

Tamara,

This is a good question, and one that can have many possible responses because so many different factors can affect the answer! If you do HOD strictly as written, then we can approximate the probable amount of time more closely. That is what we have in mind when we list that RTR will take approximately 4 to 4 1/2 hours a day to complete. Variations in the plan can add or subtract time. I'll link you to a post that I have written on the board today that will also help you think through the time question even more deeply. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12776

Blessings,
Carrie

There were a couple of concerns raised in this thread about several areas in RTR that I would like to take some time to personally address. I am always grateful for the opportunity to share my thoughts with those who are using the guides!

I agree that the history readings in RTR are a step up from the readings in CTC, which means that they are somewhat longer and more involved. However, we are assuming that the child is reading his/her own history readings at this point, which keeps the history readings to about 20 min. a day. We are not intending for the parent to read the history pages aloud at the RTR level as this will definitely draw out the history readings making them much more time consuming than we planned for both parent and child. So, this is an area that can definitely add time to the day depending on who is doing the reading. It is also important that the child be able to handle the level of reading in RTR in order to prepare him/her well for the readings coming in the next guide. There can be definite exceptions to our intended design of the plans, as in the case of children who have dyslexia, eye challenges, or a host of other issues that can play a role in a child's education.

As far as science goes, RTR focuses on earth science. There was a concern raised in this thread that the science in RTR is "very light". From our perspective, the science meets the science standards for the target age group of ages 10-12 and covers needed topics for earth science. It includes the entire Apologia Astronomy book as just one part of the science, when typically the Apologia book is meant to last up to a school year on its own. This alone should remove it from the "very light" category. RTR's science also includes living biographies along with all of A Child's Geography (which is physical geography that covers earth science topics). Last, but not least it includes a choice of Tiner's Exploring Planet Earth or God's Design for Weather and Water. There are 35 experiments performed throughout the year with lab sheets written with the scientific process in mind. From my classroom days, 35 experiments of any kind performed by the child with lab sheets far exceeds the number of experiments performed in many science classes. RTR's science also includes oral narrations, notebooking, and guided questions. From being in the public school classroom at a very privileged school teaching at this age level for years, I can definitely say that the science is enough in this guide.

I think that often families have a bent more toward either history or science. For those families who have a passion for science, there will always be the desire for more science as their focus. Or, for those families who desire a lab type setting with those type of experiments, there will always be a feeling that experiments done with household supplies are not really scientific enough. However, I want to encourage you that many of the greatest scientists started in home laboratories and some of the simplest experiments were the most life-changing. Galileo's experiment dropping two different weighted items at the same time to see when they hit the ground and Archimedes' Eureka moment with the bathtub come to mind.

So, for those who desire a more textbook oriented or laboratory focused science, you can easily go that route if desired. But it's good to consider that just because you may desire a different approach to science other than what is offered in the RTR guide, it doesn't mean that the approach we use is "very light". It is just approaching the subject in a different, more living and accessible way.

Another concern mentioned in this thread was that the art appreciation book Looking at Picture is "boring". From my perspective, we found the book to be interesting, entertaining, and beautiful. My oldest sons and I deeply enjoyed our time spent with Looking at Pictures. Part of the difference in opinions may stem from differing goals for art appreciation. My goal in selecting this book was to schedule time each week to use this book in a Charlotte Mason style picture study fashion. I was not seeking to include an in-depth art study.

CM style picture study is something our family has pursued now for 10 years. I must admit I was extremely skeptical about the simplicity of the CM approach to picture study in the beginning, but I have become a firm believer in it as the years have passed and my kiddos and I have learned to appreciate and love beautiful art. To that end, Looking at Pictures with its 150 stunning illustrations in full color from The National Gallery in London (including entries from Leonardo, Rembrandt, Matisse, Seurat, Picasso, and many more) fit the goals I had in mind for art appreciation. We spent time studying the pictures, absorbing their details, discussing what we noticed, and learning to appreciate art in the process. Art study doesn't have to be long or in-depth to resonate. It just needs to be meditated upon and shared. This is what RTR seeks to do in this area.

Last, a concern about the pricing of the Student Notebooks was mentioned. I'll just close in sharing that we have worked hard to make sure the full-color, custom-made notebooks are worth every penny that we charge for them. Full-color notebooks on specialty paper are not cheap to print, but even more than that the amount of time and money needed to create a notebook of this quality working alongside a professional graphic designer is staggering. When you consider that the Student Notebooks are typically one of the few parts of the HOD programs that are consumable, it makes it easy to see that we work hard to be sure that your money goes toward real, living books that can be reread and used time and again. The notebooks are meant to be a beautiful keepsake or portfolio of your child's school year. In comparing them to any other type of "scrapbooking" or "notebooking" out there, we are pleased with our notebooks quality, beauty, and purpose. We pray that most of our customers will feel the same.

For each of your that are using RTR this year, we pray that the Lord may richly bless your time spent with this guide. It is our heart's desire that it would draw your children closer to Him and that it will ease the burden of planning your homeschool days.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie wrote:Tamara,

This is a good question, and one that can have many possible responses because so many different factors can affect the answer! If you do HOD strictly as written, then we can approximate the probable amount of time more closely. That is what we have in mind when we list that RTR will take approximately 4 to 4 1/2 hours a day to complete. Variations in the plan can add or subtract time. I'll link you to a post that I have written on the board today that will also help you think through the time question even more deeply. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12776

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie,
I hope you don't feel I was insulting or speaking negatively of HOD. We love it! I am trying to decide what to do with my own child, and in doing so, finding a real life time commitment is important. And on other groups, I'd had just one person say they were doing it all within the alloted time, and 4 to 5 that were having time issues. I knew I could come here and find that there were more than one doing the guide within the time frame! I also wanted to know ages and experience because I feel having done HOD previously lightens the load of these higher levels...and I am finding that those doing teh guide with 11yo girls that are "changing" are having quite a hard time! So, it made me sure that it isn't that HOD is too full, but that my daughter is entering not only a stage that requires more of her academically, but a stage of change in herself that she is adjusting to physically/emotionally/hormonally. I still regularly recommend HOD to everyone that asks me about homeschooling. Always will!! Regardless of how "off" my hormonal child is.

Carrie wrote:There were a couple of concerns raised in this thread about several areas in RTR that I would like to take some time to personally address. I am always grateful for the opportunity to share my thoughts with those who are using the guides!

As far as science goes, RTR focuses on earth science. There was a concern raised in this thread that the science in RTR is "very light". From our perspective, the science meets the science standards for the target age group of ages 10-12 and covers needed topics for earth science. It includes the entire Apologia Astronomy book as just one part of the science, when typically the Apologia book is meant to last up to a school year on its own. This alone should remove it from the "very light" category. RTR's science also includes living biographies along with all of A Child's Geography (which is physical geography that covers earth science topics). Last, but not least it includes a choice of Tiner's Exploring Planet Earth or God's Design for Weather and Water. There are 35 experiments performed throughout the year with lab sheets written with the scientific process in mind. From my classroom days, 35 experiments of any kind performed by the child with lab sheets far exceeds the number of experiments performed in many science classes. RTR's science also includes oral narrations, notebooking, and guided questions. From being in the public school classroom at a very privileged school teaching at this age level for years, I can definitely say that the science is enough in this guide.

I think that often families have a bent more toward either history or science. For those families who have a passion for science, there will always be the desire for more science as their focus. Or, for those families who desire a lab type setting with those type of experiments, there will always be a feeling that experiments done with household supplies are not really scientific enough. However, I want to encourage you that many of the greatest scientists started in home laboratories and some of the simplest experiments were the most life-changing. Galileo's experiment dropping two different weighted items at the same time to see when they hit the ground and Archimedes' Eureka moment with the bathtub come to mind.
Blessings,
Carrie

In regards to my science questions (I don't believe I personally ever said the science is light, but I do think someone else did).... I have questioned about the science simply because I am totally new to the jr. high world, and my daughter is in the extension age with goals to go into science. I wasn't thinking or questioning so much about level of the science coverage b/c as you stated , it is incredibly full and meaty. I agree. But more because I was thinking there were certain science disciplines they were supposed to cover at certain grades and I didn't know if the disciplined covered in RTR was the right one for a jr. higher, as the intended audience in the normal age range is 5th-6th grade. I don't think the science level, depth, coverage is light in any level of HOD and I"ve used them all up to part of CTC so far! Simple to teach? Yes. Pleasure to learn? Yes. Lacking? Not one bit!! Just want you to know where I'm coming from. It's a new territory that scares me a bit, as we are 1-2 guides farther behind than "we should be" due to life, babies, and my own health, and I look into those other guides of where "she should be" and I feel like we aren't doing enough for her grade now that she is completely in the extension range and there aren't science extensions. I think you probably understand. Your guides are a pleasure, Carrie. Always have been and I can't wait to get into RTR (and I'm trying to forget we should be getting into MTMM )

Tamara,

Thanks so much for your comments! I should have clarified that my second response was to address concerns raised in the thread by another poster on a range of topics that did not directly apply to your original question. I apologize for the confusion.

Whenever concerns are raised I like to take the opportunity to explain our thinking behind what we do in the guides, and share our own experiences with using the guides too. In this case, it seemed like I was addressing you when I was really addressing the concerns in general.

Your questions are definitely valid as you have a child in the extension range of the guides.

Blessings,
Carrie