Written narration adaptation due to short term memory issues

[LynnH]

My ds has some short term memory issues. When he was formally tested they said the first time he saw something he only remembered about 25% of what a typical kid would seeing it 1x, by the second time he remembered about 60% of what a typical kid would after seeing something twice, and by the 3rd time he was equal to the typical kid in what he could remember if they both saw something 3 times. Through the years this memory issue has caused some problems with written narrations, usually he has been able to work through it, but often he has to look back at a reading a few times to remember it well enough to do a written narration. Sometimes he has to totally reread it. This year he has struggled more and I think this is due to all the details in the reading, especially the Science readings, but also the history. I have to be honest and say there have been days we have both been near tears at his lack of ability to remember what he read and put it in a narration.

Today he asked if he could take notes while he read. We had done this when he first started out in Preparing years ago. I agreed to let him do it with the stipulation that it had to be just one word, keyword types of notes and that I needed to see in his written narration how the notes helped him to remember the details in a way where he was doing a good story like narration. Well he did the best narration he has ever done. By taking away the stress of remembering he was able to get past a "just the facts" narration and do really a beautiful narration full of some of the author's words and some of his own phrasing. His narration actually had "life".

I know this isn't true to how Charlotte Mason narrations are to be done, but honestly with his memory issues I either have the choice of letting him do this or he will basically have to re-read everything 2-3 times. I guess I also see it as preparation for the future. As he gets up into high school he will most likely have to take these type of notes with everything he reads.

I am feeling guilty that he isn't staying true to the "rules" for narration. I hope it is ok to make this modification for him.

[water2wine]

I have a child with short term memory issues and I have had to modify some things for her as well. Honestly what has worked for her is to add more CM type stuff but I think sometimes with a kid that has these issues you just have to do what works and finding that is half the battle. What you are doing sounds fine to me. You are actually teaching a very useful skill in note taking. I would just try to gradually get him to point eventually where he can do that narration without taking notes. What has worked for me with a child with learning issues has been to do it bit by bit. And I say that because that narration skill is so valuable throughout life and it is one you want to really get if it can be done eventually

I am curious to see what Julie or Carrie will say. I am just speaking from experience with just my one child that has learning issues, so by no means an expert. Hope it helps anyway. I'd say congrats for finding a successful way to overcome a weakness and make it a strength in general though.

[LynnH]

Water2wine,
Thanks for your input. He does/has used the strategy of reading just a page or 2 and then orally narrating to me or doing part of his written narration and then reading the rest and finishing the narration up. The only problem with this with the written narration is the narrations tend to be choppy and not as good as this one was. He also seems to somewhat lose the flow of the reading.

His overall narration skills have improved a lot through our years of HOD. With the storytime books he usually gives good oral narrations. With the things he reads on his own his oral narrations are pretty good with the exception that he does struggle to narrate for 4-6 minutes. I think again it is the short term memory and he struggles to remember the details in the middle of the reading.

I just wonder if with the written narrations it is just so much for him to try and remember and combat his dysgraphia at the same time. He types his written narrations, but even that isn't effortless it takes quite a bit of concentration. i had my dh look at his written narrations that he has done without writing notes and compare it to the one today with notes and he was shocked at the difference. I kept the notes so he could see that they really were just one word notes to help him remember.

[Maadrose]

Have you tried having make a KWO (key word outline) like in the IEW writing course from RTR? I have my dd do that and it helps her stay on track. Also sometimes I write for her as she dictates to me. Sometimes I also let her copy the key idea as her written narration because writing really is a struggle (I suspect dysgraphia and dyslexia). I want her to do well with her actual writing assignments from IEW which is why I cut her lots of slack with other writing assignments. I think that is the beauty of hs, you have the freedom to make adaptations as needed. You are the mom and it is ok to do it your way so that your dc are successful at their level!

[Tansy]

I love this reminder, I have done this in the past, and I think I'm ready to retry this for my eldest. She did a narration today that was just the opposite of what I asked for, detailed instead of overview. I think a one word note taking is a great Idea. It helps trigger memory and helps it come back out in the correct order.

I too am striving for one reading one narration without re-reading for content. I do know if it was star wars related she could soooooooooo do it. lol I know she can if she set her mind to it. until then it's good to train them in coping skills.

[water2wine]

Water2wine,
Thanks for your input. He does/has used the strategy of reading just a page or 2 and then orally narrating to me or doing part of his written narration and then reading the rest and finishing the narration up. The only problem with this with the written narration is the narrations tend to be choppy and not as good as this one was. He also seems to somewhat lose the flow of the reading.

His overall narration skills have improved a lot through our years of HOD. With the storytime books he usually gives good oral narrations. With the things he reads on his own his oral narrations are pretty good with the exception that he does struggle to narrate for 4-6 minutes. I think again it is the short term memory and he struggles to remember the details in the middle of the reading.

I just wonder if with the written narrations it is just so much for him to try and remember and combat his dysgraphia at the same time. He types his written narrations, but even that isn't effortless it takes quite a bit of concentration. i had my dh look at his written narrations that he has done without writing notes and compare it to the one today with notes and he was shocked at the difference. I kept the notes so he could see that they really were just one word notes to help him remember.

I do not know the answers to the dysgraphia issues but I know other moms will chime in. I just wanted to say that if he has delays or learning issues it is going to come slower to him. Truly even for a child that has no learning delays narration is really a learned skill and it takes some time. I do not have the other answers but I want to encourage you that it does sound like you are doing a good job and it just may take some time. I know you will get some better answers than I have given but just wanted to encourage you on that.

[LynnH]

The thing with my ds is that he doesn't technically have any learning issues other than the memory issues. His dysgraphia is more a physical dysgraphia due to his tremors in his hands, although he does write some of his letters in a unique way. When he had the neuropsych testing I fully expected there to be reading comprehension issues, but there weren't. It is all related to his short term memory. Every doctor we have seen including the Cerebral Palsy guru at Cincinnati Children's hospital tells us they have never seen a kid like my ds. With his tremors they expect to see issues in certain other areas and instead he excels in those areas. They really can't give us any guidance. This makes it very hard to know how hard to push him.

I have always pushed him to do written narrations according to the guide. Each year there have been times we have had to make small adaptations such as letting him re-read or the 2 of us sharing the reading for a few weeks, but he has always been able to do it eventually although his written narrations are not the quality that I see others do. This year it just feels different. I can tell he is getting frustrated and I am seeing that it isn't a matter of him not trying or not understanding what he is to do. I had always assumed that he just didn't fully get what a good narration looks like. After seeing yesterday's narration I am realizing that isn't the case, it really is a matter of the memory getting in the way. At 13 I guess I feel like maybe it is time to realize that this is an adaptation I need to make for him if he is going to continue to be successful with HOD as he goes up in the future guides.

[Molly]

Lynn, I just want to say I think that is a marvellous way to get him to achieve positively with his written narrations. I personally think it is a great way for him to achieve without putting an expectation on him that will make him not want to write. I imagine if he goes to college he will need to be able to write from what he has heard and most if not all students do jot down notes to help them remember. God has shown you that this small adjustment has made it so much easier for him to write, and to write at a higher standard. We all have to adjust to the way each learn, and if this is going to move him forward in other areas, keep it going.

[chillin'inandover]

Lynn,
You are doing an excellent job tailoring homeschooling for your ds. I know in Minnesota they have PACER center that has technological devices for folks with CP. Not sure if they have something like that where you live in Ohio. I am not sure if this is something that you would consider but perhaps he could record his narrations and then he could type or write them as he listens to them replayed. That way the machine can "remember his thoughts" and he can take his time writing them down as slowly as his dysgraphia requires. Just some thoughts.
My son has memory issues and writing issues but not due to CP. He has a wonderful thought for his written narration and then he goes to write it down but it slips away. He is ony in CTC so it has all the questions still, so he answers them on a paper and then writes sentences based on the answers and questions. He still needs a cursive cheatsheet to write in cursive and lines on his notebook pages. I may have to consider a recorder for him. I know this is something that he can receive accomodations for at a later date due to ADHD diagnosis but here at homeschool central I can adapt our day for success without having to legally get accomodations (for college or ACT/SAT testing). Keep up the quality education your son is receiving and allow him to shine! When his CP needs accomodations provide them and when ds wants to figure it out himself that is great too! Even with his disabilities he will go far as he has learned in a comfortable environment to make mistakes, struggle, adapt, and try. Press on!

[my3sons]

...Well he did the best narration he has ever done. By taking away the stress of remembering he was able to get past a "just the facts" narration and do really a beautiful narration full of some of the author's words and some of his own phrasing. His narration actually had "life"...

This is progress worth celebrating! I'm so glad for the both of you, as this must have been a special moment of importance. In MTMM, key words are given in the Reading about History box, and the student is to try to use some of them in his oral narration. Often times, the key words are important names, places, or events. I would assume these types of words are very similar to the one word notes your ds is jotting down. In a way your adaptation is similar to this. I can see how it makes sense for your ds, and I am thrilled for him that he found success with this! I think limiting his notes to one word is a good idea. True, it is not classic CM method for narration, but I personally feel it is an excellent adaptation for your ds.

I was thinking back to my speech class in college. One thing I used to do to prepare for giving a speech was to make an index card of key words in the order I'd need them to jog my memory. I'd practice with that card. By the time I did the speech, I'd often not need the card for every part of it and could just 'see' parts of the card in my mind without looking at it. The more I did this, the better I got at it. I still never wanted to do the speech 100% without the card, but I rarely looked at it at the close of the class. It was a strategy I encouraged my students to use when I became an instructor for speech class in college.

With that line of thinking, you could possibly have him try to remember the first key word on his card by visualizing it instead of looking at it. Then, slowly he could possibly begin to remember a few more. Not that he need totally move to memorizing it all, but rather just that he could focus on remembering some of the key words by visualizing them. That is just an idea for down the road, but I do think that you have found a good adaptation for him based on what formal testing has shown.

Once again, I am amazed at you, LynnH! You are truly an incredible mom!!! Keep up the good work - you are doing an excellent job of teaching your ds!

In Christ,
Julie

[LynnH]

Thank you so much for all the kind words and encouragement. Of course as things often go with kids this week my ds really struggled with his history written narration even with the notes. He had lots of inaccuracies as if he just didn't quite understand the story. This isn't all that uncommon with him if it is something he isn't all that familiar with. It seems we encounter quite a few things that seem to be out of his realm of familiar things. We are not sure why that is. He does lots of activities outside of the home and runs around with neighborhood kids etc, but we are always surprised at what common life situations he seems to not have a clue about. He doesn't watch much tv or movies so I don't know if that is part of it or what. So I will just keep tweaking and adjusting things and I may have him tell me the basic idea of what he is going to write before he writes it and that way I can tell if he understands the story and make sure the notes aren't confusing him.