LHTH at 5 yo

[glperky]

OK, I have been doing a lot of reading on here the last couple of days and I am feeling like I have failed my 4yo son (he will be 5 in Nov.) I feel he is too "old" or mature for LHTH but because I have not worked with him more he isn't ready for the right side (3 R's) of LHFHG. Which is an other area I let him down because I was basing what I did with him on how his 6 yo brother (will be 7 in Dec.) wasn't ready to learn more at the age of 4. But now that I have been doing more with him (the 4 yo) I see that he was more ready than his brother at that age. (I don't compair the two, I was just basing it on the older one.) Is this making any sense? I can diffently see now, how they could have been combined in LHFHG at the K and 1st levels, if I would have done my part.

So, here are my questions:
1. Any suggestions on what to do now? (4yo places right on the line between LHTH and LHFHG and 6 yo places right on the line between LHFHG and Beyond.)
2. How to get my 4 yr. caught up to where I think he would be if I would have done my job.
3. If I went ahead and put them both in LHFHG but slowed it down would that put my oldest way behind in the guides considering that he will already be at the top of the age range shortly after we start LHFHG in the fall?
4. Since my 4 yo seems so far behind, in my eyes, would it be expecting to much to think he might be ready for Beyond when my older one is?

Sorry for all the questions, but ya'll are so good at helping me think all my questions through! Thank you so much for that.

[mom23]

I don't know how much help I'll be, but I just wanted to encourage you-please do not feel like you've failed your ds!! I know that some kids are ready to read earlier than others, but is that really the definition of success? Having them read the exact second that their little brains click to the ready position? I'm a big believer that kids need time to be kids. There will be time for reading later-and if he was ready at 4, it likely means that school will be easier for him when he does sit down to learn.

Here's what I think I'd do: if he's placing the line between LHTH and LHFHG, go ahead and give combining in LHFHG a try; I'd buy the LHTH guide and do the letter activities in there with him, and the phonics instruction with your older son. If that goes okay, plan Beyond doing phonics with your younger ds, while older works through the ER's. If you begin to feel like your holding your older one back, or pushing your younger one too hard, seperate them in LHTH (could do a faster pace if you need to) and LHFHG, and then a couple of years down the road you could perhaps take a second look at combining them when their reading and writing skills, as well as ability to sit still and listen are closer together. Sometimes I think combining at 4 and 6 can be a little harder than at 10 and 12.

[glperky]

Thanks mom23!

My 4 yo isn't ready to read yet or younger than his brother. He is just ready to sit down to do school, trying and paying attention way younger than his non-stop older brother!

If you combine at say 10 and 12, do you just skip a guide with the young child?

Anyone else have any thoughts?

[hs.mama07]

Oh dear girl, please don’t be too hard on yourself. You certainly haven’t failed your DS. Just because he hasn’t started letters and numbers doesn’t mean he hasn’t been learning. Listening to stories, building with blocks, playing make-believe, exploring outside, watching mommy cook, and just being loved on by family—all those things are vital for preparing a young child for school and life. There are many countries around the world who don’t start formal education of any kind until the kids are 6 or 7—i.e. not even learning letters and such—and most of those countries have higher literacy rates and better test scores than the U.S. So truly, there is no hurry or need to catch him up. Once you start his schooling things will just be easier for him than they are for other kids and he will naturally catch up to where he should be. The joy of homeschooling!

I’m doing LHTH with my very smart 4 year old right now and he actually places better in LHFHG than LHTH. But I’m really glad we did the younger guide because he’s just enjoying it so much and I know he’ll be even more ready for LHFHG than he would have otherwise. Whenever he asks for more school we do a variety of things—library books, info videos on you-tube (he loves the NASA channel), simple science experiments, nature walks, helping mommy cook, workbooks, starfall.com, etc.

In my (hopefully humble opinion, I think it’s best to tailor each child’s education to what they personally need, but I also understand the desire and need to combine. I would just say, if you do combine, be wary of pushing your younger too much and be aware of your older’s abilities so he doesn’t get bored. You can always switch things around mid-year if needed.

And either way, I hope you guys have a good time!

[Heart_Mom]

Hi!

I just wanted to encourage you and let you know that it's perfectly fine to not start LHFHG until the age of 6 for your younger son! I opted to wait to do LHFHG with my daughter until recently (she turns six next week). It's working beautifully for her!

Really, there's no rush! Relax! It will all work out.

[hs.mama07]

Oh, and I forgot to add, my son also turns 5 in November Just thought that was neat. Often we do two pages of LHTH in one day b/c he already knows the letter/number stuff (or he wants to finish the story) so we're finishing up a lot faster than I planned and will be able to start LHFHG in the winter or spring after he turns 5. Not really helpful if you decide to combine, but if you decide to do LHTH it might be good to know you can speed up the pace if it seems too easy for him.

[Robbi]

I don't think I can help answer all your questions but wanted to let you know that my DS will be 5 in November also!!! We did start LHTH last year, half speed, so we're on unit 16 I think. I am planning for LHTH to take us most of this year to finish. We could possibly get done by Christmas but we also have baby#3 due then so realistically, DS school is probly what is going to slide. I really don't want him in Beyond before age 7 (that's when my DD did it & it was perfect) so that means LHFHG at 6 and LHTH at 5, so really we can do it all year. This is just what will work for us.
Combining is such a hard decision!! Sorry I can't help there but praying for your decision to be clear!

[my3sons]

I don't think you've failed your 4 yo in any way, shape, or form!!! Does your 4 yo feel loved? Does he have a fairly good self esteem? Does he love his home life? Does he know about the Lord, and is he starting to open his heart to Him? Is he healthy and well cared for? Does he get along with his siblings (most of the time )? Oh, there is so much more to being a good parent than teaching LA to your 4 yo , and from getting to know you here on the board, I am betting ds is thriving under your loving care in your happy home.

Why must you combine? Do you have extenuating circumstances? A large family? Difficulties with health? Severe economic struggles? If not, it sounds like LHTH would be perfect, and let's keep in mind the target age range for LHTH is 2 to FIVE years old! Ds is definitely within the target age range. I would say that it is more key that dc are ready to start the LA and K math skills in LHFHG, than it is that they are ready for the history, science, etc., so LHTH as a placement would probably be best unless there are extenuating circumstances. The missing information is the details for your 6 turning 7 yo's placement according to the placement chart. Could you please share current details about this son in regard to the placement chart? That would really, really help! Maybe you have shared them before, but I think a fresh look may be good at this juncture. I would love to hear about your 6 turning 7 yo, and any other pertinent information about your life situation or your 4 turning 5 yo, should there be anything else to know when considering placement. I'll check back, but just know, you are doing a LOT right for your little pumpkin, and HOD will help you with the next chapter of life!

In Christ,
Julie

[mom23]

Oh, when I mentioned combining later, I guess I was not really recommending to skip a guide. There really is too much that they'd miss in skill building to handle that if they're not taught those things in successive guides. I think for someone coming in to HOD, it might be easier to look at combining if they're kids were older rather than younger because of the wide space in reading/not reading abilities, etc.

By looking to combine later-if children are placed in back to back guides-I've heard of it working to slow the older one down to half pace and let the younger one work at full speed to catch up; or use the summer months to catch up: with the younger one working through a guide and the older one working on extra curricular things outside of the guide (like extra reading, maybe foreign language, or a science project or something.)

[glperky]

Thanks for all of the encouragement ladies. Oh, and Julie thank you so much for pointing out that I haven't failed my 4 yo because of everything you mentioned. He is one of the most happy, content, God loving and understanding, people loving and serving, little guy I have ever know. Thank you for helping me see that.

As far as the 6 yo will be 7 in Dec. on the chaarts he is half way through phonics, is writing upper and lower case words well, but not sentences. Spelling CVC words well, but that's all. He is "Ready for gentle introduction to the basic parts of speech." And he is flying in math, he loves it!

We don't have to combine. No reason for it really except for these 3 things: 1. The boys are joined at the hip 2. It would save time, maybe, but that is not a factor in deciding 3. I have read that there are guides that they shouldn't do back to back, can't remember which ones, and don't know how to get by that if they are starting out back to back. I guess if I could see my way past #3 or you could help me figure that out, I would be more at ease doing LHTH and LHFHG this year knowing in my heart, that is where they should be.

Hope all of this made sense and helps you, Julie, or anyone else that can help, help me.

Blessings to all of you for your patience and help to me.

[glperky]

Oh, when I mentioned combining later, I guess I was not really recommending to skip a guide. There really is too much that they'd miss in skill building to handle that if they're not taught those things in successive guides. I think for someone coming in to HOD, it might be easier to look at combining if they're kids were older rather than younger because of the wide space in reading/not reading abilities, etc.

By looking to combine later-if children are placed in back to back guides-I've heard of it working to slow the older one down to half pace and let the younger one work at full speed to catch up; or use the summer months to catch up: with the younger one working through a guide and the older one working on extra curricular things outside of the guide (like extra reading, maybe foreign language, or a science project or something.)

Thanks for coming back to explain and help me out some more. As you can see, I need all the help I can get.

[mom23]

Oh, we all do! That's why we spend so much time haning out on this forum

[my3sons]

Thanks so much for sharing about your ds! I am sorry, but now I do have some more questions about your 4 yo. Thanks for your patience! When you say your 4 yo is not ready for the 3 R's of LHFHG, what does that mean? I guess, could you please share more about him? Is he still learning his letters and sounds? Where is he on his fine motor skills? Can he write some letters, use his scissors somewhat, color? How about math - can he count to 15? Can he write some numbers? How is his attention span? Also, when are you wanting to start school with the two of them? Is it possible you could start LHTH now with 4 yo? If you could please answer these questions, then, I think I can feel better still giving advice.

In Christ,
Julie

[glperky]

Thanks so much for sharing about your ds! I am sorry, but now I do have some more questions about your 4 yo. Thanks for your patience! When you say your 4 yo is not ready for the 3 R's of LHFHG, what does that mean? I guess, could you please share more about him? Is he still learning his letters and sounds? Where is he on his fine motor skills? Can he write some letters, use his scissors somewhat, color? How about math - can he count to 15? Can he write some numbers? How is his attention span? Also, when are you wanting to start school with the two of them? Is it possible you could start LHTH now with 4 yo? If you could please answer these questions, then, I think I can feel better still giving advice.

In Christ,
Julie

Julie,

Please don't appologize for the questions. Let me say I am sorry for taking so much of your time but thank you sooooooo much for it. I pray the Lord blesses you in return.

4yo is still learning letters and sounds. He does know them but not consistantly. Fine motor skills are good as far as writing but not cutting. He can write some letters and loves to color and does well with it. So the fine motor skills are kind of hit and miss. He can count to 12 and write most of his numbers. His attention span is GREAT! We are starting school Aug. 27th. With my 4yo we are doing R & S ABC-GHI books right now and he loves them. Planning on adding HOD and phonics Aug. 27th.

Thank you soooo much for the help and input.

[my3sons]

Thanks! Since he knows his letters and sounds, but just not consistently, since he is writing some letters and doing well with coloring, since he turns 5 in Nov., since he knows his lower numbers and can write them, since he is already doing the R & S Workbooks well, and since you would enjoy having your 2 sons work together - I think I would combine the 2 of them in LHFHG half-speed. I would work on letter recognition and sounds with him, as well as cutting over the next weeks. The "Leap Frog Letter Factory" DVD is excellent for helping with learning letters and sounds. It is inexpensive, cute, 30 minutes long, and available online or at Target. I'd have him watch it each day. I'd also get him some Kumon cutting workbooks from B & Noble or online. They too are cute, inexpensive, and fun to do. Just working on a page or two each day with him over the next weeks will help. Your older ds can do "A Reason for Handwriting A" (or something comparable) to work into writing sentences. I am thinking once your older ds finishes his phonics and works up to writing sentences, you may want to get the Beyond Little Hearts guide for the Emerging Reader's Set, Spelling List 1's plans, and grammar 1 x a week. This can be done mid-year. As long as you are willing to go half-speed Little Hearts until ds really firmly places there, I'd say combining will work well for the long run. I'd guess by the end of Christmas and the start of the new year you will be able to go full-speed with the 2 of them, as well as add the other things I mentioned from Beyond for older ds. But, again, this is just an idea - what do you think?

In Christ,
Julie