I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

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abrightmom
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:56 pm

I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by abrightmom » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:58 pm

My plan as stated in my signature is to place my kids in their own guides. I want to combine my boys who are 19 months but two grade levels apart. We had a terrible, awful, bust of a school year for 2011-12. Here is the scoop on the boys:

My oldest is a rising 4th grader and will be 10 this fall. He completed and LOVED 11 units of Bigger, all of CC and writes well in cursive, is nearing the end of Level 3 in dictation, and is partway thru English 3. He could finish it or start 4 with Preparing. He is a good reader with high comprehension and decent narration skills. Bigger, while beloved by him, seems too easy and I decided to put it aside because we needed a break and I believe he should move up to Preparing. He could easily do his own history reading in Preparing.

My other boy is a new 8yo and has not done a HOD guide but has completed Emerging Readers, is in the second half of Cheerful Cursive and cruising, and is somewhere in English 2. He has blossomed this past year. He has strong fine motor skills, is an excellent oral narrator, and has incredible focus. He is also determined EXCEPt when it comes to reading. He doesn't want to read. He is a great reader and I don't understand it but I think he doesn't want to work thru a book unless it grabs his attention immediately. He is just starting 2nd grade math this week and I think he'll work fast thru a lot of it but time will tell.

I have gone around and around with this and there is no clarity. My oldest places solidly in Preparing with extensions and could do CTC but he needs the narration work in Preparing and it's a fabulous guide. My middle guy places solidly in Bigger but my oldest has already completed 11 units and grown past the guide. I have thought a lot about this scenario:

Take the next 5-6 months (to the new year) and have the oldest finish English 3, keep going in dictation, finish reading Bigger books and Extensions on his own (there aren't many left). Get halfway thru 4th grade math. Read a lot. Second son finishes English 2, gets quite a ways into Dictation 2, flies thru 2nd grade math though he won't finish, works hard on reading (DITHOR may help him) with a goal to build fluency and endurance. Start Preparing in the new year with oldest in English 4 and middler in 3 though the 8yo won't be thru 2nd grade math and will have had no previous HOD guides. Oldest uses Extensions from here on out.

PROS: boys are combined! We study together and can use HOD.
CONS: It could totally backfire, younger son misses guides before Preparing and is still slated to hit CTC at 9.5. Not sure about length of day for him at that age and not sure about WWTB in CTC and Medieval Writing with IEW at 10.5. Oldest is solidly in Preparing now. He could do extensions now and I hate holding him back as Ive done in the past. I think this worry might be silly because the guides have extensions each year so though he'd be half a year behind the extensions up the challenge.

The other option is to do what I have tentatively planned in my signature. On paper this seems like too much for me each day.

Third option is put 8yo in Beyond, add in poetry copy work in cursive to build fluency and work on his attitude toward reading. I am not sure if Beyond is an appropriate challenge for him though. I could add in some simple notebooking 1-2x a week. This plan puts a guide between the boys, keeps them on grade level, and keeps my teaching burden more balanced in a separate guide scenario. The big con is the boys really enjoying learning together and my middle son is eager to work with his brother.

My 6&8 year old don't combine well. We tried that in LHFHG this past year and it was a bust. She would be ready for LHFHG now ;).
Katrina 8) Wife to Ben, husband extraordinaire! God is so good!
DS21, DS20, DD18
Levi DS14

8arrows
Posts: 965
Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 4:49 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by 8arrows » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:12 pm

What about combining them both in week 12 of Bigger? If your son was enjoying it, why not. Just add the extensions for the older one. If you really want to try combining in Preparing, you could give it a shot. It looks like he places lower than that, but if he is highly motivated to work with brother, you never know. I personally enjoy combining.
Melissa, wife to Jim for 28 years
3 graduated, 2 using US 2, 8th grade dd using Missions to Marvels
Isaiah 40:11 ...He gently leads those that have young.

gratitude
Posts: 35
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 7:39 am

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by gratitude » Sun Jul 01, 2012 4:32 am

Hi Katarina! :D

((Hugs)) As you know I reached a similar place this year in deciding placement. My oldest two boys are 21 months apart. They also have very different strengths, which it sounds like yours do too.

The question I finally had to come to answer (which was not easy to answer) was the following:
Was it more important for me to combine or to no longer hold my oldest back; which is what 2011 - 12 was about for him in 'content' areas. A second question was whether or not it was more important for me to combine or to allow my youngest to work at his own level rather than tag along (we did combine for ADV).

My DH and I had a long talk about this. For us it became clear that for us (our family) it was more important for the boys to work at their own pace, maturity level, and content level according to their abilities. It also became clear that family Bible & family activities & family chores/cooking & play & church activities is where we want to emphasize family togetherness.

Now all this said my plan doesn't start until fall. :D So I don't know how it will look in practice. I do know though that I personally love to tutor them one on one and go crazy when I am trying to quiet 4 dear ones for family learning. So for me to not combine was the best decision. For you though it could be to combine; or it could be the direction I have decided to go.

I think the thing that I realized the most is that they still will hop in on each others learning (they did this year), but with my personality that likes to focus on one thing it is better if I am focused on what one is learning and let the others get what they may and then switch. As long as each is getting my focused attention they will get what they need for school. Does this make sense? I also realized that our best 3 weeks of school this past school year (that was a bit of a mess too) was the 3 weeks I had them separated into their own learning; I was more tired, but also much much happier & full of joy which made up for the increased tiredness. So I am hopeful our plan for next year will work.

I realize though that many moms are the exact opposite! Perhaps figure out what kind of teaching drives you crazy (group versus one on one) and then go the other way to the one that works.

I hope this helps!
Last edited by gratitude on Wed Oct 21, 2015 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

tiffanieh
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by tiffanieh » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:14 am

Hi there! I just wanted to say that i totally understand where you are coming from. My boys are only 21 months apart and I always had them combined. But like the PP, this year I finally had to come to the realization (especially as the guides become harder and meatier) that I was doing an injustice to both of my children by keeping them combined. My older was capable of doing more, and my younger was struggling with keeping up....and it was only going to get harder as we progressed through the guides.

So for this upcoming school year I have finally decided to put the older in Preparing and the younger in Bigger (starting in unit 7 where he left off). Yes, it does make my day look more complicated, but I think in the end, it will serve us all best.
Tiffanie
http://www.thehagefamily.blogspot.com
Enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, 1/2 of BHFHG and now doing PHFHG
Mommy to Ethan (10) and Ashton (9)

tiffanieh
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by tiffanieh » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:17 am

oops...wasn't ready to hit submit...

From the sounds of your younger son, I think Preparing would be WAY too difficult for him this year. One of the purposes of Preparing is to prepare them for CtC and the independence required in it. If your son is struggling with reading persay, I think the independent boxes of Preparing would be too much. It certainly looks to be too much for my almost 9 year old, who is a strong reader by the way.

I wouldn't put your younger in Preparing...
Tiffanie
http://www.thehagefamily.blogspot.com
Enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, 1/2 of BHFHG and now doing PHFHG
Mommy to Ethan (10) and Ashton (9)

Molly
Posts: 288
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:12 am
Location: South Island, New Zealand

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by Molly » Sun Jul 01, 2012 2:16 pm

Have you considered doing Preparing with extensions for your eldest, and going half-pace Bigger with your 8 yr old. It would lessen your teaching burden and have them working where it is best for each of them.
Michelle, Mum homeschooling four beauties in NZ
DD1 (13): Rev2Rev, DITHR
DD2 (11): CTC, DITHR
DS1 (8): BHFHG
DS2 (4): LHTH

farmfamily
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2011 4:20 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by farmfamily » Sun Jul 01, 2012 5:56 pm

Well, my kids are younger than yours, so perhaps I am not qualified to offer advice - but I do have some experience with Bigger. I would have thought that if your boys work well combined, you ought to be able to beef up Bigger so that it is plenty of a challenge for a 4th grader. He could read the extension books, do written and oral narrations on these (I think advice about that is in Bigger's appendix), and do grammar and math at his own level. He could also add Igniting your Writing, which Carrie recommends as a language arts selection for 4th graders in the Dithor section on the website to add more writing if you felt he needed it. You can make his Dithor reading as long or challenging as he needs, and he can do Dithor 4/5. So I would think you that you could combine them in Bigger with extensions and possibly additions for the older one, and you could just start in Unit 12 where you left off. Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't Bigger be made just as hard as Preparing if you beef it up enough?

I'm interested in the replies to this thread because I currently have a 1st and a 3rd grader combined and just starting Beyond, so before too long I would have a 4th grader in Bigger. My older daughter technically can do Bigger now, except that she is so easily distractable that it didn't work for us when we tried it. I had to be on her case all the time (I guess I made a mess of her placement too!). I do hope to be able to combine them for the long haul and keep challenging her all the way through.

Anyway, I do hope you find a good solution to your dilemma. I know when I was considering what to do with my girls it kept me up at night thinking about it. I will say a prayer for you :-)
blessed to be married 17 yrs to my hardworking farmer dh, mom to:
daughter 13 MTMM
daughter 11 Rev to Rev
son 10 CTC

Enjoyed Little Hands, LHFHG, Beyond, Bigger, Preparing, CTC, Res to Ref, and Rev to Rev!!

abrightmom
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by abrightmom » Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:54 pm

Molly wrote:Have you considered doing Preparing with extensions for your eldest, and going half-pace Bigger with your 8 yr old. It would lessen your teaching burden and have them working where it is best for each of them.
Hi Molly,

Thank you for responding. I see that you have four kids and a very similar age/grade/HOD guide dynamic to us. How long is your school day? Do you have a sample schedule posted? I :mrgreen:

To answer your question, yes, I am considering half pace and four days a week for awhile. I'd like to put a guide in between the boys if possible. I have considered using Beyond for the 8yo and save Bigger plus extensions for next year. This puts him at the oldest end of the upper guides with the possibility of using extensions and having a bit more maturity for the reading and writing.

Do you think it is short changing the 8yo to keep him in Beyond when he places so well in Bigger? I am considering the option of picking up with Bigger at unit 12 for BOTH of the boys but I don't think it is a good idea for DS9. I am not sure what my husband would say either. He wants our oldest son to be working more on level and at an appropriate challenge. As lovely as Bigger was for him I truly believe he has grown past it as his core program. :oops: He has read many of the books as well. I don't know if I have it in me to make him slow down and use them for "school" when he has read them in the recent past.
Katrina 8) Wife to Ben, husband extraordinaire! God is so good!
DS21, DS20, DD18
Levi DS14

mom23
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:10 am

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by mom23 » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:12 am

I think it sounds like Beyond will not be enough for your younger ds. If he's bored and you're trying to beef things up to challenge him, it's not easier than running the Bigger guide-been there, done that :). I think Molly had a great suggestion with just putting him in Bigger at half speed to start with. As you both hit your stride with it you can gradually add in more of the boxes when he's needing more to do each day.

I understand your wanting to combine...I think for that to be most successful all the way around it's probably going to be in Bigger (wherever your oldest left off), and then beef it up for the older ds. However, I also found Bigger to not work for my dd in 4th grade. I just couldn't beef it up enough to spark her interest. She's doing much, much better in Preparing.

Can you put them in their own guide for History and Science, and then combine them for Bigger's Bible Study, Storytime and Poetry? That would still give them some time together, but appropriate challenge where they're needing it.

I don't know. Hang in there, though! Placement has been the toughest part of our journey with HOD. Once I got that ironed out we all love it. There is hope :) Keep trying until you find the placement that's going to work for your family!
Becky, married to my preacher-man and raising:
DD 12-7th grade public school
DS 10-Preparing
DS 8-Beyond
DS 3-Just doin' his thing

abrightmom
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by abrightmom » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:32 am

mom23 wrote:I think it sounds like Beyond will not be enough for your younger ds. If he's bored and you're trying to beef things up to challenge him, it's not easier than running the Bigger guide-been there, done that :). I think Molly had a great suggestion with just putting him in Bigger at half speed to start with. As you both hit your stride with it you can gradually add in more of the boxes when he's needing more to do each day.

I understand your wanting to combine...I think for that to be most successful all the way around it's probably going to be in Bigger (wherever your oldest left off), and then beef it up for the older ds. However, I also found Bigger to not work for my dd in 4th grade. I just couldn't beef it up enough to spark her interest. She's doing much, much better in Preparing.

Can you put them in their own guide for History and Science, and then combine them for Bigger's Bible Study, Storytime and Poetry? That would still give them some time together, but appropriate challenge where they're needing it.

I don't know. Hang in there, though! Placement has been the toughest part of our journey with HOD. Once I got that ironed out we all love it. There is hope :) Keep trying until you find the placement that's going to work for your family!
8) I do agree with you that DS8 is past Beyond and it feels wrong to put him in a guide that truly doesn't fit him..... And, DS9 truly does need Preparing. Perhaps I'm at a crossroads where I simply need to decide to proceed with each child placed in the guide that fits them best. Tweaking to death in order to combine with HOD does not suit me and sucks the joy out of HOD. I may as well multi-teach with a curriculum designed for that. :wink:

Thanks for the encouragement to press on with placement. Knowing what I know now I wish we would have run the guides for each child according to the placement chart and stayed the course for the year. At the time, though, I was counseled to NOT do that as HOD is designed to combine within the age/grade ranges my kids are at. I kept thinking that I must be able to combine them but it did.not.work. :roll: At one point I threw in the towel and just stopped using HOD altogether. Sigh.
Katrina 8) Wife to Ben, husband extraordinaire! God is so good!
DS21, DS20, DD18
Levi DS14

basesloaded
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:19 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by basesloaded » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:46 am

I do not have much to add to your situation specifically but I did want to chime in and say that we have been combining with HOD for 3 years and love it! My oldest boys are 29 months apart but my oldest is a Dec "baby" and my middle a July "baby" so that aids in our ease of combining. We began using HOD when they were 8 & 10 and we began with Preparing. I have always had a strong desire to keep them together and it is working for us. My oldest has always done extensions and they still work at their own "pace/level" even with doing the same material. I am really excited to next year be doing Rev to Rev with my older 2 boys and Beyond with my younger son. We are looking forward to all doing US History together! I think many of your choices could work but I pray you will get a peace about what suits you all best :D .
Suzy in Eastern NC
Momma of boys 11th grade, 9th & 4th
HS World History, HS Geo & Preparing

basesloaded
Posts: 220
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2009 11:19 am
Location: North Carolina

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by basesloaded » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:49 am

PS- Some years when I thought I had made a mess of my school year later I realized God was still in control and I ended up in a better place than I could have planned. Hope you have your answer soon :D .
Suzy in Eastern NC
Momma of boys 11th grade, 9th & 4th
HS World History, HS Geo & Preparing

tiffanieh
Posts: 200
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 12:02 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by tiffanieh » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:31 pm

I would not fret, nor spend much time in regret. I'm curious why you are opposed to doing one in Bigger and the older in Preparing since that is really where they place? I understand the desire to combine, I really do, but if separating suits each best perhaps you can start to find joy in knowing you are meeting them where they can soar. I spent this morning working on my school schedule, as my 21 months apart boys will be doing Bigger and Preparing this year and by starting at 8:30 each morning, I have my Bigger son done by lunchtime (including a 30 minute break) and my Preparing son finishing an hour after we finish up lunch.

Very doable!!!
Tiffanie
http://www.thehagefamily.blogspot.com
Enjoyed LHFHG, BLHFHG, 1/2 of BHFHG and now doing PHFHG
Mommy to Ethan (10) and Ashton (9)

Heart_Mom
Posts: 473
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:35 am

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by Heart_Mom » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:40 pm

Hi, Katrina!

We've had our placement woes too, so don't feel like you're alone. (We need a hug smiley!) If I had to do it over again, I think I would have started out a little differently two years ago, but I've been able to make it work for my family.

Personally, I think your best option is to do Preparing (maybe without extensions) with your oldest, and do Bigger half-speed with the next oldest son. They would both be in great guides at the right level, but I think you could manage that amount of teaching in your day. Bigger half-speed really does not take a whole lot of time. And remember that you can combine Storytime if you'd like!

I've opted to have my 10 year old son who is doing Preparing NOT do extensions, but instead to the Independent History and read Preparing's Storytime on his own. This is working very well, as we still do this discussions from the Storytime section, but he gets more reading on his own. (I do make the extension readings available for my son to read during his free time once we get to the units they correspond with in the guide.) I also do a Storytime with all my children together so that we all have one book that we're enjoying together.

I really do like having my children in their own guides. It's so nice to have time alone each day with each child! :)

I hope this is helpful, and that you are able to find a solution that fits your family!
Blessings,
Elisabeth

ds - 17
dd - 14
dd - 12
ds - 9
dd - 5 (Little Hearts for His Glory)

Proverbs 4:23 "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life."

abrightmom
Posts: 474
Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: I've made a mess of placement. Is there hope?

Post by abrightmom » Mon Jul 02, 2012 2:39 pm

Heart_Mom wrote:Hi, Katrina!

We've had our placement woes too, so don't feel like you're alone. (We need a hug smiley!) If I had to do it over again, I think I would have started out a little differently two years ago, but I've been able to make it work for my family.

Personally, I think your best option is to do Preparing (maybe without extensions) with your oldest, and do Bigger half-speed with the next oldest son. They would both be in great guides at the right level, but I think you could manage that amount of teaching in your day. Bigger half-speed really does not take a whole lot of time. And remember that you can combine Storytime if you'd like!

I've opted to have my 10 year old son who is doing Preparing NOT do extensions, but instead to the Independent History and read Preparing's Storytime on his own. This is working very well, as we still do this discussions from the Storytime section, but he gets more reading on his own. (I do make the extension readings available for my son to read during his free time once we get to the units they correspond with in the guide.) I also do a Storytime with all my children together so that we all have one book that we're enjoying together.

I really do like having my children in their own guides. It's so nice to have time alone each day with each child! :)

I hope this is helpful, and that you are able to find a solution that fits your family!
Elisabeth,

I love your idea and it is currently my favorite one (Preparing for oldest, Bigger half speed for middler, maybe Little Hearts for DD6 but I'm still pondering that one). I am boxing up some other curriculum that I purchased at our homeschool convention in order to return it. Sigh. I have figured out that I want to stay with HOD this year and use it correctly.

I will look more closely at the storytime titles for Preparing and consider that option for my son. I want to read something with him though. Is your 10yo reading the history on his own or do you do that together? I think we might combine for Bigger's Storytime as there are many, many titles from the Beyond and Bigger lists that the boys haven't read.
Katrina 8) Wife to Ben, husband extraordinaire! God is so good!
DS21, DS20, DD18
Levi DS14

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