place between preparing/ bigger

[happyhome]

Any insight would be appreciated- I will try to be brief:) Last year was our first with HOD. I did Beyond with my then 1st grader and 3rd grader. The 3rd grader did R&S English 2, DITHOR 2/3, and math 3A&B, along with cursive, and a writing course at her co-op. It was a difficult ear because of my mom's health issues and also homeschooling my stepson- 8th grade- along with my then 3 year old and 1 year old tagging along. Sooooo, about Christmas or almost 1/2 way through I stopped using the manuel so much and just went through the history readings- picking up the speed because they both begged to keep going everyday. I found the science wasn't interesting my 3rd grader so we added Apologia which she loved. Then, about March, I picked up my manuel again and realized I was missing some things and we went back to using it until June- finishing it. Looking back I think the issue was my 3rd grader was bored- she is a smart kid- her end of the year testing showed a 12th grade reading level and 8th grade language arts. She is the kind of kid that now we are off for the summer decides to write a book or sets a goal to read 3 books a day- she loves to read, read. I think my then 1st grader wasn't quite ready for Beyond and it was frustrating to her and me, however, I think by the end of the year she was, and we were able to finish it fine. If I had gone more slowly with her, then we probably would have been OK, but I wasn't taking the time to fine tune what I was doing, so busy with everyone else.

So here's my question, do you think I should attempt to do Bigger with the both of them, with my now 4th grader doing extentions, or should I move my now 4th grader over to Preparing. She would be in R&S 3 and the higher level math anyway, plus has been doing fine with Apologia science notebooking. My now 2nd grader does place in Bigger- although I know I have to spend more time helping her through- she has started emerging readers, will be doing the math 2, is a bright kid but not quite as self directed as her sister. this year I won't be homeschooling my stepson- he will be in H>S- and it was worth it last year- he is doing great! I will be doing some light K work with my almost 5 year from MFW- I already know and like that program- and he isn't ready for LHFHG yet- that can be next year. But I am a bit overwhelmed at thinking about 3 different programs, so I would try Bigger with extensions, but just not sure if it will really be enough for my 4th grader. Help! And thanks!

[Gwenny]

How is she at writing? Preparing might be okay depending on that. There is quite a bit of it in Preparing.

[amysconfections]

I would take a long hard look at the placement chart. Pray about it. Take a look at your life and think about what you can handle. It is easier to add to a program some extras to beef it up for the older one than to help a younger one along because they aren't ready.

Now my opinion. Looking at your demands from your other children and life I would put your oldest in Bigger or Preparing. Add in extensions to Bigger. Then you can add in Art for your oldest (we love See the Light art videos), writing using Igniting your Writing and any other interesting things she would like. Your upcoming 2nd grader can do Bigger while working through the emerging readers but beware it's a big step up. The other alternative is to just work on the basics with your 2nd grader, do poetry, etc art and the fun stuff of Bigger. You can also modify Bigger by not having the younger one write as much and writing the verses, etc for them. You can also repeat Beyond with the younger one changing up the read alouds.

Personally I prefer combing my older two together since I have 2 younger ones to care for also. There is only so much of me to go around. I still am the cook, cleaner and everything else so I have to leave time for that too.

[mom23]

I'd be inclined to put them in different guides-older one in Preparing and younger in Bigger. Your year will go smoother if they aren't being tugged in opposite directions-one being bored and needing more and one being too challenged and not keeping up. If your 2nd grader had to grow into Beyond, she may very well need to grow into Bigger as well, and do better half-paced to allow her to get off to a good start. It sounds like your older one would need lots more than half paced Bigger.

[happyhome]

I appreciate the information, if I was to do Bigger- how would I "beef it up" to make to stronger for a 4th grader besides just the extensions. If I repeated Beyond, how would that be possible- by using different storytime books? It seems the heart of the program would still be the same?

[frankesense]

In my opinion, I think that doing Bigger with both and adding the extensions and Drawn Into the Heart of Reading for your older would be a good fit for your family. Bigger is definitely a step up from Beyond and then with the extensions and reading program, her own level of math and dictation you may find that it will meet all the needs of your older one. If not, she could still pick books from the library that interest her to read in her free time.

Stephanie

[MicheleW]

I think the ideal would be Bigger (slowly at first if needed for your younger) and Preparing (possibly even with the extensions) for your older. If they can read well on their own, it doesn't add that much time to have more than one guide. You would probably still be reading to your younger, but your older should be able to read most of Preparing on her own and just come to you to narrate/discuss. There is quite a bit of writing in cursive in Preparing, but you could always gradually move from printing to cursive if she isn't quite up to that yet.

I started out combining and in the end, had to move 2 of them down a guide and 1 of them had to skip a guide to get everyone properly placed. Once they were placed correctly, they were able to be much more independent. My one in RTR does everything in the guide on this own. He just comes to me to do oral narrations or show me his notebooking assignments. We do math and grammar together. My DD 10yo did Bigger with extensions this year and she does most of it independently too.

If you really want to combine though, it can certainly be done. My 10YO did Bigger this year. She did the history and extension readings. She also read the science books, but we did not do the activities as they were too childish for her. We added Apologia Zoology 2 and she did the activities out of that. We also did not do the geography, art and history projects as these were too young for her as well. She did an art class and a geography class at co-op. We did do the poetry study as written. She did R&S 4 and did Dictation level 4 from her brother's RTR manual. I chose reading books at her level from the 9 different genres. She did Abeka math 5 because that is what we've always used.

HTH,

[happyhome]

So, I am right in thinking that the main differences between Bigger with extensions and Preparing are: writing amount, Preparing is a more independent guide. I also need to decide whether I want to keep combining the girls, and if I have time to add in a few things? My big concern is the writing- if I do Bigger with extensions, will she(my 4th grader) get to the place where she needs to be for jr high and high school writing, assuming we do a guide each year?

[netpea]

Yes. My DD did bigger with extension fir 4th. The writing goes up each year. In cycle you add write with the best.

[mskogen]

I used to combine by oldest two, until I realized I was tugging my second along and not challenging my oldest. If I am reading your post correct that is how you felt this past year with your kiddos. Therefore I would recommend spliting them up. When I split mine I found it to be easier on everyone involved (I actually get more done in less time) My oldest has really taken off and is a VERY independent learner. My second child blossomed. He had always allowed his older brother to answer all the questions, even though I tried to get him to answer. Now that he is in his own guide he doesn't have that option and I get amazing narrations and answers. Also, my second is becoming an AMAZING independent learner This is so awesome because until I split them he wanted/needed my to sit with him for all of his work (even if I wasn't helping, he just liked me to sit there) Now thanks to being able to go at his pace he has grown and is learning!
When I split the boys I went half pace for about a year with my second son. A couple of reasons I did this, 1. to create space between my two 2. he was placed too high and I needed to get him on level.
So with this long response my recommendation would be to split your kids. Place your oldest in Preparing if that is where she places. Your second I would go on with Bigger but go half pace to allow her to grow into the skills. I think you will find this will actually make your day easier. You will not have to figure out a way to make Bigger more challenging for your oldest daughter. Hope this helps. I just said a prayer that God would give you peace about your decision.

[my3sons]

Good ideas flowing here! I am wondering how old your second grader is, and also if you could please share a bit more about her individually in light of the placement chart? It sounds like she is an emerging reader, ready for math 2A/2B, so I guess I am wondering specifically about her writing? Here is an excerpt from a past thread where Kathleen describes the writing requirements in Bigger Hearts...

Bible - Once per week copy the memory verse
History - Timeline entries once per week (name, dates, and small picture)
Once per week notebooking page that may be a map drawing, list of facts about a person or event, pictures to go with it...
1-3 Vocabulary cards per week (definition, sentence using word, and illustration on the back)
Science - Once per week notebooking page including Bible verse and a labeled drawing
Once per week experiment page (Parent writes question on it, child records a guess, draws the procedure, and writes a conclusion)
Dictation - Study and write short passage 3 times a week (2 sentences)
DITHOR - 2 (?) student pages per week (The teacher guide actually reccommends writing these for your child if writing is an issue starting out.)
Cheerful Cursive - if you're opting to do that (The lessons are very short! I have my child write the words once, even though it says twice on some of the pages, as long as it's GOOD writing.)
R&S2 - Usually about 5 sentences a day (on a white board)
Poetry - OPTIONAL to copy from the poem of the week. We started out without it, and have added in copying 2 lines 4 days a week.

These are spread throughout the week in the plans so that there's not too much on any one day. Cursive and R&S are daily, but the "big" ones are split up.
Day 2 - Science notebooking
Day 3 - vocabulary and science experiment page
Day 4 - Bible verse
Day 5 - History timeline entry and notebooking

From what you've shared so far, it sounds like your oldest dd is definitely ready for PHFHG, and your younger dd may be almost ready for Bigger Hearts, but probably would have done well with Beyond this year. If that is the case, I would cut your older dd loose and let her fly with success with the independence planned in PHFHG! I would enjoy going half-speed with your 2nd grade sweetie, and savor it rather than try to push her through it. I think you will find this year to be quite different without homeschooling your eighth grader (kuddos for doing that last year and feeling so good about that ), and doing PHFHG and Bigger Hearts half-speed would not be hard. Your oldest sounds so far ahead of the game. There is nothing "boring" about HOD, so if a child is feeling that way, placement is off. I think challenging her with PHFHG and helping little dd feel truly capable, not rushed, and enjoying school at her own pace in half-speed Bigger would really make your year special. What are your thoughts after revisiting the placement chart, looking over the writing in Bigger Hearts, and praying about it though? Hope something here has helped!

In Christ,
Julie

[happyhome]

Thank you so much for all of the insight- it seems that there are a couple of right answers! I will continue to pray about it- any other advice is always welcome!

[happyhome]

Thanks Julie,
I just got your reply:) I think that yes, my second grader is almost ready for Bigger and in some ways could have gotten alot out of Beyond had we done that this coming year. I do realize I need to go slow with her, she just is at a different place than my 4th grader was at the same age. I definately don't want to push her- she already has been I'm afraid. I am finding that I have had to grow into HOD-and think I will understand it much better this coming year!

Thank you again