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? about History in Little Hearts in conjunction w/Beyond

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:50 pm
by annaz
Even though this may sound ridiculous, I'm going to ask anyway. :roll:

Got the catalog. love love it....looking at LHFHG...we didn't get to do that and let me also say we completely belong in the Beyond program. But I am bummed that we missed the Little Hearts portion of the history. It looks extremely important to me and the rest of the program. The reason for it, what it is, etc. Is there any benefit to fitting this portion of the program into Beyond.

Let me say that my dd zones over the history portion and Stories of the Pilgrims in Beyond, however not the key ideas or the rest of the program. She's just not interested and I'm wondering if she's missed the reason behind all this history by not doing Little Hearts. For those doing Little Hearts, how important do you feel this HIstory portion of Little Hearts is to knowing the rest of History in the HOD programs? The explanations look pretty darn important to me on how history was formed or is it just the first week of samples that I read that really seem to be the most important.

Thoughts?

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:10 pm
by shera
Ann
I'm not sure how far along you are in BLHFHG, but I suppose you could switch the left hand page (history, science etc) to LHFHG. If you want to see the manual to look at it more let me know.

We are currently in week 14 day 1. So far it is Bible history/stories. In fact the MFW Bible reader works great with HOD History. I don't know much about the books you are referring to but it does sound like LHFHG would be a better fit.

Hopefully more people will respond. But I say drop down a level, you can always do Beyond the following year even jumping in where you are now if you want to.

HTH
Sarah

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:10 pm
by susie in ms
Let me say that I am not where you are right now, but from a personal perspective of having done history with my other kids I think I can safely say that the back ground of the WHY and HOW of history is very good, but not essential to start a love for history.

Me and my kiddos knew very little of history when we started using the living book method. We loved it anyway! Later we got around to the beginning of history and it was appreciated.

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:18 pm
by inHistiming
How long have you been using BLHFHG? Your dd may just need more time to get used to the differences in HOD. Or, if you haven't homeschooled formally, it may just mean getting used to a more formal approach altogether. I'm just making guesses, because I don't know how long you've been hs'ing. :wink:

If you really want to do LHFHG, you could switch to that completely, and save Beyond...for next year. My daughter is finishing it up this year for 2nd grade, and she's loved Beyond....she was not as interested in the readings as a 1st grader...we did the first half in first grade and are doing the second half this year. Everyone is different; if your daughter is not interested, maybe Little Hearts... would be better for her...it really can't hurt to try it. I'll be doing Little Hearts... with my youngest ds when he is six, for 1st grade.

I personally would not add the LHFHG history to Beyond...I would just do one or the other.

Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:36 pm
by Melanie
Ann! My friend! I have been missing you! I was going to pm you last week to see if you had your language arts and math figured out. I always think of you when I open my LLATL or my RightStart! :lol:

I really don't have any advice for you. I don't think I would go back to Little Hearts, but you might could s-t-r-e-t-c-h Beyond out and add some other read alouds to go with it. You'll cover that same overview when you do Preparing, so I wouldn't sweat it. :wink: And, she might be getting more of it that you think! Carrie makes very sure that you can jump into HOD at any year and be ok, so doing Little Hearts is not imperative to understanding Beyond.

Maybe Julie or Carrie will jump in here with some words of wisdom for you! :D

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 8:10 am
by my3sons
So many wise words have already been said here - so I'll quote you since I agree with what's been said:
annaz wrote:let me also say we completely belong in the Beyond program. But I am bummed that we missed the Little Hearts portion of the history. For those doing Little Hearts, how important do you feel this HIstory portion of Little Hearts is to knowing the rest of History in the HOD programs? The explanations look pretty darn important to me on how history was formed or is it just the first week of samples that I read that really seem to be the most important. Thoughts?
Annaz - Your children fit great into the Beyond program, so I'd say stick with that. I think that learning to listen to various types of books being read is a skill within itself, and I know your children will learn to enjoy the history readings given time.
susie in ms wrote:...from a personal perspective of having done history with my other kids I think I can safely say that the back ground of the WHY and HOW of history is very good, but not essential to start a love for history.
I totally agree with this! Here's a reality-check question for us moms who would LOVE for our children to love and remember with clarity all that we teach them: How much history do you remember from kindergarten, first grade, or any elementary year from when you were in school? Unless you have a photographic memory, I'm betting not much. (Or is it just me?!?)
inHistiming wrote:Your dd may just need more time to get used to the differences in HOD. I personally would not add the LHFHG history to Beyond...I would just do one or the other.
Time is such a great teacher - and I think inHistiming is right on track here with her advice.

Melanie wrote:I don't think I would go back to Little Hearts, but you could s-t-r-e-t-c-h Beyond out... You'll cover that same overview when you do Preparing, so I wouldn't sweat it. :wink: And, she might be getting more of it that you think! Carrie makes very sure that you can jump into HOD at any year and be ok, so doing Little Hearts is not imperative to understanding Beyond. :D
Melanie hit the nail right on the head here! Don't sweat it - and keep on moving forward with Beyond... I think you'll find your daughter growing into it rather beautifully as you continue, and the history will cycle around again anyway when she's older and can take more of it in.

In Christ,
Julie

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:19 am
by annegirl1919
as you know the history in bigger is making me wonder, as well. i'm being a super planner here, since i won't do bigger 'til not this coming school year, but starting a little over a year from now. i will have a kindergartner and a 2nd grader, so i'm thinking maybe if i involve her in lhfhg (which we never did with her either) then maybe if the history in bigger isn't getting her real excited, at least she'll be able to be getting doses of other history with her brother. -? not sure what i think of this, but i am thinking about it.

also, do you remember me from maybe 2 years ago-the wp boards and mfw boards. as i remember, we were both waffeling between the two, and now here we are at hod. i think it's rather funny and amazing! we must have some similarities. :)

Thanks for your input

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 10:49 am
by annaz
To those who asked, we finished Lesson 7 in BLHFHG. All is going well except for the History zoning!!!

Sarah (Shera) thanks for that offer. I may take a sneek peak to see if I want to add portions of it to our day. They just look so important.

Annegirl1919: Yes!!!! Too funny that many of us ended up here! Netpea was MFW too I think.

my3sons: yes, that is something I thought about is so they remember from K or 1st? Good point.

Melanie!...praying for you and your 4 days....I'm still doing LLATL. Haven't found anything else that floats my boat. We're actually doing well with Singapore. Probably 'cause Carrie is teaching it and not me. LOL!

Susie in MS: Yes, Susie it could be timing. We've gone through difficulties with just about every subject and now it's History.

InHisTiming: DD really enjoys Beyond...except just for History reading. I think there's a "what is this info for". We've homeschooled since day 1, she'll be 8 in June. I'm thinking just about 3-4 weeks of lessons from LHFHG.

Thanks...

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:26 am
by Melanie
We are enjoying Singapore, too! We're still finishing up the blue level of LLATL but I'm going with all HOD next year...whew, what a relief that has been!
I'm wondering if you should have started with Little Hearts.......hmmmm. I hope you get a chance to look at Sarah's copy. And I also have wondered just how much mine will remember. :? Time will tell, I guess.. I do think you will be fine just sticking with Beyond....don't lose sleep!

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 1:12 pm
by Jen in Va
annegirl1919 wrote:as you know the history in bigger is making me wonder, as well. i'm being a super planner here, since i won't do bigger 'til not this coming school year, but starting a little over a year from now. i will have a kindergartner and a 2nd grader, so i'm thinking maybe if i involve her in lhfhg (which we never did with her either) then maybe if the history in bigger isn't getting her real excited, at least she'll be able to be getting doses of other history with her brother. -? not sure what i think of this, but i am thinking about it.
If you are working up to Bigger by going through the earlier levels of HOD, then maybe it won't be as much of an issue as it seems to be for some kids who are just entering the program.

That said, maybe some kids don't get what history is. Don't see why it is important. Most probably don't really--not at an early age. I taught history in ps for several years and felt like there all the excitement was sapped out of the story--out of HIS-story. Maybe if you could show the kids what history is--start with a history they understand--their family--you know--your immediate family--when they were born, how you and your husband met, where you guys went to school/church, funny stories from you growing up, how God led you even when you didn't know He was. Then carry it a bit further back--your parents and grandparents. What was going on when they were kids. When did your parents or grandparents get their first TV? Did you have family fight in any wars? Show pictures from photo albums or books. Then make the connection that history is just the story of our past as a country and world. It is important. It shows from where we came and has a huge impact on where we are going. History is important to us as Christians because it shows how God uses man, even men who don't honor Him, to bring about His ultimate plan. It is also important because we can look back today and see the mistakes which were made in the past. We can think about what we would have done differently and why. Then when similar circumstance arise, and they always do, we can avoid making those same mistakes. Scripture tells us that the things were written in the Bible for us as warnings (I Cor 10:11) and examples. We can and should view history in the same way--they are examples and warnings of a different kind, but the concept is the same.

I see the books that are used in many hs history programs (spines) as a skeleton--the bare bones of what happened. You can choose to just use the those spine books, but there are many, many books that can be used to add meat to those bones, to fill in gaps, to make the story come alive. I know that LHFHG has an appendix with lots of books listed by unit that can be used to supplement the reading being done in the spine for each unit. Still, there will come times when you have to slog through certain periods of history--the Gilded Age springs immediately to mind as one era I just don't like to read about--you do your best to cover it and move on. This won't be the only time you pass through the study of history. Each time you read about it you add more to the skeleton that the kids have in their heads about the American Revolution, or whatever you are studying. Their previous study gives them a point of reference--oh yeah, I remember Ben Franklin--he was the one with the kite, key, and lightning. Yes, he was a great inventor, but he was also vital to the American Revolution, here's how........ Kids who are just starting their study of history don't yet have those points of reference. They will get them and history will become more meaningful for them as they continue their study. The easiest way for them to get these reference points is through stories--which is really what history is.

Something that may help the OP's child as she listens--what if you give her certain things to listen for as you read? Maybe read what Carrie has listed as key points, and make a question out of it for your child. I'm trying to do this a bit with my son as we read the Burgess readers. They are tough going for a child who is used to Curious George and the like. I am training him to listen to these stories. It won't happen overnight, but bit by bit I see changes in him. It sounds to me like this may be part of the issue with the OP--it's a different kind of reading/listening from what the child is used to. I would say to persevere with the readings.

I feel like I'm rambling at this point. I hope I've been a tiny bit helpful. I've been down this road before--not with HOD, but with other history curricula. I would venture to say this it isn't all that unusual.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 2:45 pm
by Kathleen
Jen, I thought your perspective was great! I really apprecaite all you had to say as a relatively new homeschooling mom. :wink: Thanks for taking the time to type that out for us!

:D Kathleen

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:48 pm
by annaz
Kathleen wrote:Jen, I thought your perspective was great! I really apprecaite all you had to say as a relatively new homeschooling mom. :wink: Thanks for taking the time to type that out for us!

:D Kathleen
I agree as well....I printed it out. :lol:

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:09 pm
by my3sons
Jen -
Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts! I remember reading about Charlotte Mason's belief in giving children "pegs" to hang information on, and your line of thoughts you shared about Ben Franklin describe that so well. I think that we read from so many different books that young children don't always get what is true, and what really happened. I've started to say every time we read History Stories for Little Pilgrims, the Bible, and History Stories for Children (the history books in LHFHG), "You know, all of this REALLY happened. These people REALLY lived, and they REALLY did these things. Isn't that amazing?" My son still says sometimes, "This really happened? Wow! That's neat!"

I've also started saying with the Thorton Burgess books something along the lines of, "Isn't this author a great storyteller? He sure made up some great pretend stories that are fun to read!"

It does seem to help him differentiate between the 2 genres better. I think Jen makes an awesome point about learning to read and listen carefully when being read to are skills that have to be learned - just like tying shoes.

I have done a couple of things that ended up working pretty well with teaching that skill to younger children. I found this out not because I had a grand plan to do it this way - as with many good ideas, we just sort of "fell into it"! One day I was just noting that whatever we are saying and acting out in the Rhyme in LHFHG from Day 1 of the week is something we are going to get to read about that week in history. For example, the rhyme about Washington talks about him chopping down the cherry tree, riding the wild colt, and surveying land. It helps my son "listen for key ideas" better when I say before reading, "Remember the part of our rhyme that talks about Washington and the colt? Today you get to find out what really happened with that colt!"

I accidentally said it a day early with the colt, and my son kept saying at the end, "But what happened with the colt, Mom? I listened for that the whole story, and you never mentioned it!"

I thought "OHHHH! We're on to something here. That's exactly the skill I'm wanting him to learn! I'd better do that again!"

A couple other things that have helped me when reading anything with key words in it or questions at the end (i.e. History Stories for Children). is at the start, I always remind him to listen carefully because I'll be asking him questions at the end. Then, when I'm reading it aloud to him, I whisper directly in his ear the key word as I'm reading it (i.e. Balboa, Boston, etc.). Whatever I whisper, he takes note of more, and he also has a little giggle about it too. It seems to be helping him a lot.

Anyway, I really appreciate Jen's insight here! I agree with her perspective so much.

In Christ,
Julie

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:35 pm
by Kathleen
my3sons wrote: think that we read from so many different books that young children don't always get what is true, and what really happened. I've started to say every time we read History Stories for Little Pilgrims, the Bible, and History Stories for Children (the history books in LHFHG), "You know, all of this REALLY happened. These people REALLY lived, and they REALLY did these things. Isn't that amazing?" My son still says sometimes, "This really happened? Wow! That's neat!"

I've also started saying with the Thorton Burgess books something along the lines of, "Isn't this author a great storyteller? He sure made up some great pretend stories that are fun to read!"
Julie - I think you're exactly right! I'm going to try to remember this, too. I know that I've done this with the Bible with my little girl. I think leading in to our reading will help the kiddos understand the difference between real and pretend.

I loved your listening ideas, too! I'm sure that I'll be able to put those into use. :wink:

With the history, I know that I remember reading something Carrie wrote that made perfect sense to me. She was talking about layering in the information...not planning on them having it down pat in 1st grade...or 2nd grade...but to just keep layering it in and let them make their connections over time. (I may have paraphrased terribly...sorry Carrie... :roll: )

Having mainly learned history through text books in the public schools myself, I know that remembering a list of facts long enough for the test has not helped me get a good picture of history. The things I do remember, I read in real books...historical fiction, biographies. I am soo excited to be learning history along with my children in a much more meaningful way. Real books, fun activities! They're going to remember so much more than I did!

:D Kathleen

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 5:09 pm
by annegirl1919
jen, so do you know if there is supplemental history reading recommended for bigger hearts as well?
thanks!