What are your thoughts in skipping guides, combining?

[Mibellesmom]

I have been reading your posts about the placement chart..I am still debating whether to combine both kids in one guide or not. My desire is to combine both kids in one guide! We spend 4-5 hours depending on the day to work through both guides. It's more reading for me, I can't imagine having more than 2 kids in different guides!

My son is 10 1/2. He's a struggling reader, transitioning to almost his "grade level" reader. He has a form of dyslexia, scotopic sensitivity. We're working through Diane Craft reading program, as he has a hard time breaking syllables. But, he can read books like Farmer Boy to himself. He did Rod and Staff 3, instead of 2 and is at grade level in Math. He can read some of his history ( Stories of Americans ) on his own. When I look at the guide, he's a mix of Preparing and CTC.

My daughter is 8. She has had no issues and is zooming through Beyond. It is a little easy for her at times. I think she places in Bigger for next year ( nice, to have all books used with my son)

If I use Preparing for both, they would still have their own readers, DITHOR, grammar, spelling and math. I would combine Learning through History Part.

My fear is that I am coddling my son, and moving my daughter too fast. She has not done cursive writing yet and seems to fit in better with Bigger. At the beginning of this year, Bigger seemed right fit for my son, but now I am wondering if I made a mistake and he would have done better in Preparing. Ugh, I just need to step back to gain some perspective!!!

[jenchampion]

I am totally new to HOD this year, so I can only be of minimal help to you.....I had originally planned on combining my younger 2 in Beyond and using the Bigger Guide for cursive, math, dictation, and Rod & Staff for my older of the 2....but after reading numerous posts about placing each child individually where they should place, and that that in itself makes all the difference in the world, I am thinking of doing them separately....so I will be doing Beyond, Bigger, and Creation to Christ......I have had a really hard time deciding this, 'cause I really had my mind set on combining them. But I think the best thing for me to do is to let each have their own guide separately. Hope this helps you a little.....

[Gwenny]

I would think that CtC would be way too hard for your son. Did he already do Bigger, or are you talking about having the books from Bigger from another son?

[Mibellesmom]

We're finishing Bigger. I question if he is behind, because I am the one holding him back!

[netpea]

Perhaps you could help us to advise you by letting us know where your son falls in each subject on the first page of the placement chart. the first page is the most important one.

[MicheleW]

My advice would be Preparing for the 10 1/2YO and Bigger for the 8YO. I started HOD with my 4th grade DD in Preparing. She is a very motivated student, bright, and an excellent reader. Preparing was too difficult. She had done some cursive but still had to look at the chart for many of the letters. The passages they wanted you to write were long and she was so frustrated. It also expected you to write a paragraph or a poem each week. In general, the books were not too difficult and she could have read most of them; it was mainly the assignments out of the guide (the history, science, and poetry assignments.) We ended up going back and doing Bigger this year. We had to beef up a little, but I knew she was not ready for CTC.

How old are your other kids? As far as doing multiple guides, it's not as bad as one would think. We are only doing 2 guides (I have an 8th grader in RTR and 2 in Bigger because my 12yo son has autism, so he mainly listens in with his sister), but I also have an 11th grader doing an eclectic mix that I put together myself, and I do have to give and grade assignments and such for him. Each guide has the kids doing more and more on their own, so the main bulk of your time is always with the younger ones. My 8th grader does everything in the guide himself. After each thing he does, he comes to me and gives me an oral narration, shows me his notebook, or discusses whatever the guide told him to. The only thing we really do together is math, grammar (I read the lesson; he does the assignment), and dictation.

Even my DD in Bigger does the science, reading about history, and storytime readings herself. It depends on how strong a reader your child is. You can decide how much they can do of the Bigger readings.

[Mibellesmom]

Wow, I feel like a whine bag! I only have 2 kids! Thank you for taking time to help me out!

I know a lot of our problems are lack of motivation and discipline issues. They need me to be in the same room, or they do not complete any given assigment. My son has improved greatly in this area, and can do handwriting, math and some reading on his own. But, for the most part, they are not very independent with their work.

Looking at the guide for CTC

Reading independently - able to use Drawn into the Heart of Reading Level 4/5

yes, we're finishing level 2-3 with ease.

Mastered formation of cursive letters; able to copy passages in cursive; ready for longer dictation passages; can write a short narration and do some creative writing

He loves cursive, and I think he would have no problem. He's been 10 pages ahead of schedule all year on this cursive writing. He can write a short narration/ or story providing I help him in applying grammar. ex: he forgets to capitalize, properly punctuate, correct use of pronouns, instead he uses a persons name over and over. He does excellent in grammar worksheets, but forgets when writing. I have not given him many writing assigments.

Recognizes basic parts of speech; working to use proper mechanics and usage within writing; has begun basic diagramming; able to follow writing lessons to apply grammar.

We're finishing Rod and Staff 3. He knows, nouns, pronouns, verbs, subjects, predicates, quotation, capitalization, commas etc. We've begun basic diagramming.

This is definitely him:

Knows how to form upper and lower case cursive letters; ready to copy sentences in cursive; will continue more difficult dictation passages; begin creative writing and written narration lessons- guideline for Preparing

.

[Mibellesmom]

This is what my Educational Facilitator had to say. She's been following our progress for almost a year and half.
We're finishing Bigger, he's 10 1/2 4th grade.

These are good concerns.
I will give you my opinion and then ask you a few questions to think about.
Yes, I did think DS was behind in some areas due to material he was working on. I do believe he can do more. As far as combining the grade work, I did that when my daughter was in first I skipped her to 3rd. Not because I thought she was brilliant but because I needed to make it easy for me and less expensive. My daughter ended up graduating 2 years early and is an awesome student. Since we were home schooling, the transition was very easy for her and there wasn’t all the pressure she might have experienced in school. The next year they both returned to private school and age wise, my son was a year behind. I decided to skip him a grade since my daughter had not had a problem with it. In a traditional school setting, it was very difficult for him...initially. He cried almost every night trying to do all the homework. Just as I thought I made the biggest mistake, he adjusted and did awesome. It worked out perfectly.
Any program will always tell you that they do not recommend it. Their entire program is set up with the thought of a child’s age and mental development, etc. However, it is better to challenge them and put them where they need to be. I just recently heard a great quote by Michelangelo:
“The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.”

Personally, I don’t see anything wrong with whatever program you select for DS. You can always add more writing if that is an issue. I guess the main concern would be the readers. I believe he will do just fine with the 5-7th grade reader. Just make certain he is reading books for enjoyment of his own selection, regardless of grade level.
Those were all my opinions.
Questions:
Why did you want to combine the programs?
Will combining programs free up time for your family?
Will you be comfortable with DD skipping a guide? Can you live with that?
(You have a hard time with “skipping” things, not bad or good, just how you are. )
What exact areas do you feel DS is behind in?
Can you work in those areas without skipping curriculum?
If DD and DS work in the same level what are the benefits?
What are the drawbacks?
If you proceed in correct grade levels, same question, what are benefits and what are drawbacks?
If you keep DD with what follows and skip guides with DS, what are the benefits and what are the drawbacks?

I think if you answer some of these honestly, you will have your answer. The beauty of homeschooling is you can just be where you are at….period. You can tweak things a bit to make them fit. I can help you with that.

You are right, DS has made big leaps, part of it can be pushing him and part of it can be maturity. DS is 100% capable of writing essays at this point. Simple ones, even DD. I know because Anna can, but again they are very simple. If they don’t write beautiful essay until 9th grade, is that really bad? I don’t think so. It does have to do with maturity.
In the end, you really are fully capable of making this decision.
P.s. I just looked at your learning profile. Know that part of why you are struggling with this is because of how you simply see things. You are a relate/inspires person but also a producer. That makes it very difficult for you to do things out of order. DS on the other hand, has no problem with it. He is an inventor by nature and out of order doesn’t mean anything to him. His high “Performing” nature requires him to have challenges. DD is pretty much like DS You might want to look at those results again.
You have done a great job with your kids and your concerns are valid.

I have printed out CTC and Preparing First Week, samples. The possibility of combining makes my heart happy!!! It would definitely help me, so much! My son could could do level 4, 5 in Dithor and my daughter level 2,3. Same with grammar, she would do Beginning Wisely and he would do Building with Dilligence. My daugther could do Cheerful Cursive, while my son can copy the passages in Preparing. Basically she could most of the things she would in Bigger, with the exception of History and Science being different. I do not know what the extension schedule looks like, but it could put him where he needs to be for 5th grade, without having to skipping a guide.

If you took time to read all of this! Wow, you are AWESOME! Maybe some of these questions will help others thinking in combining!

[mrsrandolph]

My main issue is with skipping guides. I would NEVER want to skip one. They are each SO FULL of WONDERFUL educational info and great biblical education. So I would do whatever I needed to not to skip a guide. : )

I have done each one up to Preparing. Just started Preparing.

[Mibellesmom]

I hate the idea of skipping guides, too. But, I hate the fact my son is considered behind, because I am not challenging him.
Probably because I placed him in Beyond when he was 9, when she should have been in Bigger.

Right now, I am learning towards Preparing for my son, but using extensions and the writing program in CTC.

[LynnH]

What is your reasoning for using the writing guide in CTC? If you use the extensions for Preparing and have him do written narrations for those once a week, plus the regularly scheduled written narrations, and you will be doing the creative writing with the Poetry in Preparing, plus the writing in Rod and Staff that is plenty. Carrie really has balanced out the writing in the programs. I have a son with mild Cerebral Palsy and I get not wanting them to be behind, but you also don't want to overwhelm him and I think writing is an area that it is easy to do just that. My ds did Preparing as a 10 year old and the writing was a good fit. I wasn't doing Rod and Staff at the time so I used Igniting Your Writing per Carrie suggestions. If you just really feel the need to add to the writing I would use that since it isn't used in any of the guides. That way you could save Write with the Best vol 1 for CTC. I think you are smart to put him in Preparing. CTC is a big jump in all skill areas.

[Mibellesmom]

Thanks for reminding me of Ignite your Writing!!!! I don't think the programs lack anything, when the children are properly placed. My reasonsing is trying to place him where he needs to be, without skipping a guide. I know I made a mistake in placing him this year. He was 10 and could have done Preparing, but I placed him in Bigger instead. He turns 11 in October. I wish the pressure from California Standards did not get to me... but I guess, it does!

[psreit]

Your ds can still progress with Preparing if you use extensions. Your facilitator may not be aware of how HOD can be adjusted to fit a child who may be more advanced in certain areas. I would not worry about testing. As has been said many times on here before, students using HOD are scoring very well on tests. By skipping, you may miss some skill areas that will be helpful for the next guide. We are only moving into Bigger this fall, but I for one would not want to miss what is in the next guide, even if I knew my dd could handle the work a guide later. You said your son is a struggling reader. That would be another reason to not bump him up. Just keep building consistently. If he placed in Bigger last fall, then he is on a good track to just keep building on each guide. Place him in his level of reading, grammar, and math. I would just keep dd moving along as well. I don't have to use two guides, but if I did, I wouldn't want to place too high to combine. That would be more stressful.

[MomtoJGJE]

One thing to remember, when you said that doing those two guides took such a long tiem to complete... Bigger and Beyond are both VERY VERY teacher intensive guides. Once you get into Preparing, and get past the "training" stage, it really takes off. Plus with him being older you could assign some of the history reading to him if he's capable and that would free up a bit of your time as well. I guess, you said he could read Farmer Boy.... does he comprehend what he reads?

I would hesitate a TON to put a child into Preparing who was doing well in Beyond just to combine. My oldest is doing Preparing right now, and it's a TON of writing. I could not have my second do Preparing next year (she's doing Beyond now) because she's just not ready. Bigger prepares them very well for the rigors of Preparing. I mean, even just saying you are going to combine her just in history. History takes up the whole left side of Preparing. And it's a LOT of work or else they just don't get everything out of it.

What if you put your DS in Preparing, but do it 5 days a week to speed it up a little for him?

And you could do your DD in Bigger and let her be totally ready for Preparing the next year. I think you'll see a lot of improvement and gains in maturity through the year with her...

One thing that I feel is important with HOD is to not feel bound by ages/grades. If they fit in the guide, then that's where they should be no matter their age.... except I would draw the line at say, a 6 year old in Preparing or something like that but older doing a "younger" guide. Preparing is a LOT. I'm learning a TON through it And DITHOR is just done at whatever level they are in...it's not based on the guide the students are in.

[Mibellesmom]

Thank you all. Yes, he understands and narrates orally what he reads. He did very poorly on testing last year. But that was before we addressed some of the visual problems he was having.

It helps to know that these guides are the most teacher intensive. Because the author has truly made open and teach. I didnt think it was possible to get any better. Grateful for having this board to help me sort all this out.

We just came back from our churchs rummage sale and my son finds a book that is required in Preparing. I take the hint, Jesus!