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Okay, here's our situation: my daughter is 9 right now, in 4th grade and will turn 10/5th grade mid summer. We have been doing Bigger with her, but she has not been flourishing with it as I know she should be. We are currently on Unit 18, and I'm coming to believe that our struggles are due to incorrect placement. (My 2 boys who are correctly placed with HOD are certainly flourishing, whereas this child has been floundering for all of Beyond and half of Bigger now.) My plan is to stop Bigger right now and place her according to the placement chart, without considering trying to make her combine with anyone.

She places in CTC, except that we have not done written narrations, or any creative writing. In fact, our narrations need work, no matter which guide she places in. I have gotten some great advice on another thread in this reguard, and believe that we can work together to strengthen this area significantly by using some of those ideas. As far as creative writing goes, I don't think it's that she couldn't do it, just that we haven't yet done it.

She places in Preparing, except she's ready for the increased independence of CTC, and the harder/longer dictation passages. She has been working through most of Bigger independently, but I'm now understanding that since Bigger isn't designed for that purpose the books chosen are a bit much to expect her to do on her own. We're using R&S Grammar 3 from Preparing, and will continue that; and Math 3B. I was reading another thread that discussed a child reading their own work independently by age 9. Are the history books that are scheduled in Preparing as "Teacher-led" something that she could be expected to do on her own as we work toward later in the guide? I see in the catalogue that Praparing is 3rd/4th grade. I'm really afraid of putting her there, but finding ourselves in the same position by next year-with her bored, and unchallenged, and not giving full effort because the work is beneath her. Most of whatever guide I buy right now will be done with her as a fifth grader.

I would not skip Preparing. Besides the narration and writing skills which are learned in it, the material is just plain wonderful! Grandfather's Box, Hero Tales... the books in Preparing were great! My kids and I learned so much and had such great spiritual discussions. I consider the T/I markings to be suggestions. If your DD is ready to be more independent than the guide suggests, go ahead and let her do more independently. My DD at 10 could probably read all of the Storytime books and most of the Reading about History selections. She also could have read any of the science books. Just decide how much you want her to independently. You don't need to move up to CTC just so she can do more independently. I would hate to have missed the books in Preparing, plus I've heard that CTC before 6th grade can be very difficult, especially in the writing skills and being able to process the ideas. Even if your child can read a book doesn't necessarily mean she can digest the ideas in the book. Some of that higher order thinking is developing until the middle school years.

Just my 2cents.

Okay, thank you! You don't think Preparing would be too easy or boring for a 5th grader, then?

ETA: I'm not excited about the prospect of skipping any of these guides! I love Bigger, and Preparing sounds fabulous as well. It's just that in looking over the first week of plans on the webpage, CTC was the one that really jumped out and grabbed my attention with the thought that, "Wow! She would thrive with this, and really love it!" My only consolation in this line of thinking is that I have 3 younger boys coming up who are properly placed (the 2 in school, anyway ) and I'll get to experience all of the guides with each of them!

mom23 wrote:Okay, thank you! You don't think Preparing would be too easy or boring for a 5th grader, then?

ETA: I'm not excited about the prospect of skipping any of these guides! I love Bigger, and Preparing sounds fabulous as well. It's just that in looking over the first week of plans on the webpage, CTC was the one that really jumped out and grabbed my attention with the thought that, "Wow! She would thrive with this, and really love it!" My only consolation in this line of thinking is that I have 3 younger boys coming up who are properly placed (the 2 in school, anyway ) and I'll get to experience all of the guides with each of them!

This is just my experience after combining poorly and then misplacement, but we did go from combining for a year of Beyond to my 5th grade dd placing in CTC this year. Only you can know for sure, but if you feel CTC is where she would thrive then I would give it a go. There is an excellent return policy. You have 30 days to return and exchange guides and books. I wouldn't think of it as skipping guides either. It isn't as if you are saying that you just want to jump to ancient history so you are going to skip American and World history. You are saying that your child is floundering and improperly placed and by moving her up to the guide that she places in she will thrive and regain her love for learning. I honestly love CTC for 5th grade and my dd10 who has never really done narration before is blowing my mind with how well she has picked it up. The written narration in CTC is guided with a starter sentence as well.

She places in CTC, except that we have not done written narrations, or any creative writing. In fact, our narrations need work, no matter which guide she places in. I have gotten some great advice on another thread in this reguard, and believe that we can work together to strengthen this area significantly by using some of those ideas. As far as creative writing goes, I don't think it's that she couldn't do it, just that we haven't yet done it.

We have loved Write with the Best. My dd has really taken to it this year and I do think it has a lot to do with the fact that the work is on her level. When she was combined in the lower guides with siblings, she was just a participant in school. Now, she is so active and excited and does well. She takes her books and goes and reads on the couch or the chair and comes to narrate. She is really thriving and being challenged this year with school.
I guess what I am saying is the only way to know for sure if CTC is where she would thrive would be to give it a try.

mom23 wrote:Okay, here's our situation: my daughter is 9 right now, in 4th grade and will turn 10/5th grade mid summer. We have been doing Bigger with her, but she has not been flourishing with it as I know she should be. We are currently on Unit 18, and I'm coming to believe that our struggles are due to incorrect placement. (My 2 boys who are correctly placed with HOD are certainly flourishing, whereas this child has been floundering for all of Beyond and half of Bigger now.) My plan is to stop Bigger right now and place her according to the placement chart, without considering trying to make her combine with anyone.

Oh my. If your daughter floundered in Beyond and continues to flounder in Bigger, then how is she ready to a more advanced program? How could she possibly place in Preparing, let alone CTC?

I would start working with her one-on-one in Bigger TODAY, half-speed, if necessary.

mom23 wrote:
In fact, our narrations need work, no matter which guide she places in.

How will reading more difficult passages help ease her into learning narration skills?

I just want to encourage you to finish Bigger.

In fact, I would be more concerned with getting her path corrected than the younger ones.

Good luck whatever you decide to do.

FiveLittlePeaches wrote:
Oh my. If your daughter floundered in Beyond and continues to flounder in Bigger, then how is she ready to a more advanced program? How could she possibly place in Preparing, let alone CTC?

I would start working with her one-on-one in Bigger TODAY, half-speed, if necessary.

Yes, I hear you! I think maybe I should have used a different word. I didn't mean "floundering" in the sense that she cannot do it; but in the sense that she hates it. That makes me very sad, because these are such great programs! I know if she's not enjoying it the way her brothers are that there is something wrong. Now, yes, the boys would tell you they don't like school, because they would rather play all day; but when we're sitting down to do it, they're asking about their favorite parts of it, and reminding me what they did yesterday. They're anxious to see what they get to do today. DD, on the other hand, went from freely admitting that she liked school to dreading the very mention of the word. She drags her feet off to go do her work-which she completes correctly (except for the careless mistakes that are popping up more and more frequently), she just really drags her feet about doing it. There were a couple of times last week that she still wasn't done with school at 8:30 pm, just because she would sneak off to do something else and pretend that she was done (she's been working most of Bigger independently). When I ask her to narrate something I'm met with an attitude of, "I don't want to talk about this" rather than one of "I don't know what you mean." So, yes, I do think she's bored with it, as opposed to not being able to understand it.

Thanks for your input, everyone! Appreciate your thoughts

I think I've decided to order the things that we'd need for the first few Units of Preparing, and start her in that. If it seems that she's loving that and making great strides forward, great, we'll continue. If it seems, on the other hand, like she's still not going to feel challenged enough to give full effort, I'll take advantage of HOD's great return policy, and get the stuff for CTC for next Fall, and in the mean time, really focus on DITHR 4/5, narrating skills, go through Igniting Your Writing, and keep our current schedule of Math and Grammar. Probably keeping some of the great history reads from Preparing, and some other science stuff we have on hand to use through the remainder of this Spring and through Summer as well.

It sounds like you are coming up with a plan. I might encourage you to do a little more of the program with you daughter. This can be very motivational to some children, and it can be just the time with mom that a child might be craving. It also completes some of those boxes and makes the day seem more attainable. When you start Preparing (if that continues to be your plan), only have her do the boxes labeled I independently. I have seen this be successful for many families on the board that were having a younger child do the guides independently. (I do realize that she is old enough to read the readings to herself, but that doesn't mean she has to read all of them at the stage she is at.). I just wanted to share this option as a possible key to unlocking that fire for learning in your daughter. I realize that not every option will be successful for every child. Keep us updated, and let us know what the key turns out to be for her, whatever that may be.

I have a gifted 10yo 5th grader in Preparing and loving it. I upped the independence and let her read the extensions as well but no assignments right now, but sometimes es. I'd say honestly I don't assign bc she narrates to me from excitement! She is solidifying her narration skills which is a great reason to go to preparing rather than CTC. And we haven't done creative writing yet and she is capable but learning so much from preparing. her written narrations are improving and her oral narrations got a boost since she is now the one reading the material. I'd go with Prepaing if she needs narration help. She will NOT be bored. My girl begs to read ahead in grandpa's box nearly every night. And she loves the constellations book. It's just such a great level. And so full of skills to make CTC go just as smoothly. Add some independent reading in place of the T box and you're set! But don't have her read it all on her own.

Thanks, 8arrows and Mom2Monkeys. Preparing is ordered and on its way. I've decided that our house is on "Spring Break" this week; I plan to spend some time working on improving the attitude in general, and hopefully, get a new fresh look at school next Monday morning. I'm planning to follow your suggestions, and begin the guide as directed with the T/I boxes and possbily reevaluate increasing independent work after we get several weeks under our belts. I'm feeling more and more comfortable with deciding this route-I want her to truly be ready to get everything out of CTC when we get there.

I think a week off was a great idea. Enjoy your new guide and let us know how it goes. I am thinking it will go well!!!!!!!

Just wanted to post a quick update We're a few weeks into Preparing with my dd, and it's going very, very well. I did a couple of weeks at a slower pace (not quite half pace, but not getting to all the boxes every day, either) and today we bumped back to to full speed. She does take more breaks in the middle of her day, we can both tell when it's been enough sitting school time, and she needs to run around outside for a bit. She comes back from breaks in 15 mins or so very willingly. She really enjoys the history books, as well as the Draw and Write through history. There isn't anything that she dreads at this point, except for maybe grammar, which has never been her friend . We're having much more teacher led time than she's used to, which at times chafes her a bit, but for now I feel that she needs me there to guide her on doing the work correctly and completely; and we're following the T, S, and I boxes exactly as marked. I'm so glad we decided to go with Preparing, rather than CTC or sticking with Bigger. This is just a much better fit than she's had with HOD until this point, and I'm hopeful that this will be very helpful for her growing skills, and give me clarity to also work on the attitude issues that are really heart things, without frustration and boredom confusing the issues, KWIM?

I know I've read this on here many times before, but placement is so key! Too low a placement can be just as much a hinderance to learning as too high a placement!

I am so glad to hear your good report. Enjoy!

Great report! I also want to add that I am using Preparing this year with my 4th grader(not particularly gifted or advanced, but an excellent student), and there have been times that I almost wished he was a little older going through Preparing! The material is so rich and there is so much to really ponder and I find that it is an outstanding 5th grade program! I will be taking my 3rd son through it at about the age your daughter is, and I know that it will be wonderful! I have never heard anyone say anything negative about Preparing!

Also, my 1st son struggled a bit through Bigger. He didn't love it at all. He loved Beyond, but Bigger was a hard year for him. I am convinced that was because Bigger is such a skill building year and we really had to hunker down and work hard to build those skills.

mom23 - Thanks for the update! I am so glad that PHFHG has proved itself to be a good placement for dd now. It is just hard to know sometimes, but once dc are correctly placed and on the path in HOD, it seems that simply moving to the next guide works. It is my prayer that this is what happens for dd now. Enjoy PHFHG - such a great guide!

In Christ,
Julie