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Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 5:47 pm
by Heart_Mom
I have an idea for this upcoming school year and I'm wondering if anyone else has done something like this. :D

I'm thinking of reading aloud to all my children from each child's guides. Obviously they would only be doing the activities and assignments for their own guides, but they would have the benefit of getting more family read-aloud time. It wouldn't bother me that they would be hearing books that they'll hear again in the future.

So all my children would hear the readings from Preparing, Bigger, and LHFHG. I would allow my Preparing child to move on to his assignments right after I did his readings if he wanted to. I know my Bigger girl would love the LHFHG readings, especially since we didn't know about HOD when she was the right age for it.

Anyway, has anyone done this? If so, how did it go? Or even if you haven't tried it, what do you think?

Thanks so much!!! :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Tue Mar 06, 2012 9:28 pm
by mrsrandolph
I don't like the idea, personally.

I don't really want my youngers to hear the books they will be studying in the future and I don't want them hearing the retells of the chapters.

I know that;\'s just my take, though :D

So, What I do it for LHFHG, I read her Thornton Burgess books at school time. For bedtime, I do the readings and questions/retells for my kids in Beyond.

Make sense?

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:13 pm
by MelInKansas
I like the idea, I don't have any other feedback than that. Right now, since Beyond is the only guide we are doing, my 7YO and 5YO listen to the readings for it and my 5YO loves the storytime selections, and enjoys the History readings too. I think the devotion and science readings are above her head, but she listens and looks at the pictures when there are some.

I also wouldn't have a problem with them hearing the readings that they would hear again when its their own guide. My 5YO went through LHFHG listening (when she was 3.5-4.5) but I know she comprehended and remembers very little of it. I guess we will see when that time comes.

The thing I am wondering is (not knowing much about any guide above Beyond) how long would this take you? Maybe I will do this next year, when we are finishing Beyond, starting Bigger, and starting LHFHG for my 2nd (maybe LHTH for my 3rd?). I am sure my 2YO (who will be 3 by then) might even listen to some of the LHFHG reading, but we will see, she is less attentive than my 5YO was at the same age. But I think I could end up sitting on the couch reading for 45 minutes.... I guess there are worse things I could do!

If you do try it let us know how it goes!

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:35 pm
by Larissa
I really enjoy the one on one time that I get with each child when I read to them their books from whichever guide they are in. I can understand why you would want to do it, but for me the time I have to read to each child is a special bonding one on one time. It's hard to find the time to do one on one time other than the daily reading that I do with each of them. We read the Bible together as a family each night after we eat dinner ... so that is when we have family read a-loud time.

One thing is for sure, though...what works for one family may not work for another. The only thing you can do is try it ... and if you find great success with it ... then keep up the good work!

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:44 pm
by Heart_Mom
mrsrandolph wrote:I don't like the idea, personally.

I don't really want my youngers to hear the books they will be studying in the future and I don't want them hearing the retells of the chapters.

I know that;\'s just my take, though :D

So, What I do it for LHFHG, I read her Thornton Burgess books at school time. For bedtime, I do the readings and questions/retells for my kids in Beyond.

Make sense?
Thanks for your input, Sharon! :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:48 pm
by Heart_Mom
MelInKansas wrote:I like the idea, I don't have any other feedback than that. Right now, since Beyond is the only guide we are doing, my 7YO and 5YO listen to the readings for it and my 5YO loves the storytime selections, and enjoys the History readings too. I think the devotion and science readings are above her head, but she listens and looks at the pictures when there are some.

I also wouldn't have a problem with them hearing the readings that they would hear again when its their own guide. My 5YO went through LHFHG listening (when she was 3.5-4.5) but I know she comprehended and remembers very little of it. I guess we will see when that time comes.

The thing I am wondering is (not knowing much about any guide above Beyond) how long would this take you? Maybe I will do this next year, when we are finishing Beyond, starting Bigger, and starting LHFHG for my 2nd (maybe LHTH for my 3rd?). I am sure my 2YO (who will be 3 by then) might even listen to some of the LHFHG reading, but we will see, she is less attentive than my 5YO was at the same age. But I think I could end up sitting on the couch reading for 45 minutes.... I guess there are worse things I could do!

If you do try it let us know how it goes!
I don't know exactly how long it will take me, but it won't be any longer than if I keep everyone separate. :D I wouldn't require my younger children to just sit on the couch the whole time. I would let them color, build with blocks, play with toy cars, etc. while I was reading.

If I experiment with this, I'll try to remember to post here and let you know how it went! :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:56 pm
by Heart_Mom
Larissa wrote:I really enjoy the one on one time that I get with each child when I read to them their books from whichever guide they are in. I can understand why you would want to do it, but for me the time I have to read to each child is a special bonding one on one time. It's hard to find the time to do one on one time other than the daily reading that I do with each of them. We read the Bible together as a family each night after we eat dinner ... so that is when we have family read a-loud time.

One thing is for sure, though...what works for one family may not work for another. The only thing you can do is try it ... and if you find great success with it ... then keep up the good work!
Larissa, I totally agree with you. I love the time alone with each child. :D

The only problem is that I feel like my younger children end up being separated from me for quite a while each morning, and I'm not sure that's best for them. Right now, I spend at least an hour alone with my 10 year old, then up to 45 minutes alone with my 7 year old. I do have things for my youngers to do during that time. They are either playing alone in their room with some nice toys and a "mommy tape" to listen to, or they are doing "special time" with the older child I'm not working with. Still, it's just not working the way I'd like.

Even if I do the readings all together, I'll still have a shorter one-on-one time with my children for their grammar, spelling, etc. so maybe I can schedule the Bible box in that time. I do agree that it would be of great value to be able to share with them one-on-one for those more sensitive spiritual issues.

It really is hard to decide. I love the one-on-one time, but I don't want my younger children to be separated from me for a long time.

Thanks for talking this through with me, ladies. I'll talk with my husband and see what he thinks... :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:59 pm
by MelInKansas
The reason I asked about how long wasn't because it was any longer or shorter overall, just that you're in one place doing one thing for a much longer period of time than you usually would be. It sounds like you spend longer chunks anyway with one child individually, again since I am in younger guides our stuff is all quick and one of the things I love is that we move from one thing to another really fast. It makes the school time speed by.

And with the other kids getting up and doing other things during that time, that might make it take longer because of interruptions. I don't know, again I like the idea, but am not sure. I would pray through the schedule and just see where something like that might fit (maybe after lunch?? since my kids love read-aloud time so much I would leave it until later because its almost always sure to get done).

I like to keep us together when we can, for the same reason you stated. Even though the youngers might be doing okay with their separate time, sometimes it seems like they get brushed aside for the whole school time. If they seem to like listening to the read-alouds and can do so without being disruptive, I think it could work really well. It's good time together. When my children have been sick, I have treasured sitting on the couch reading books to them, for some reason when everybody's well (maybe they're just too busy being active) I don't do that as much.

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 5:47 am
by Heart_Mom
MelInKansas wrote:The reason I asked about how long wasn't because it was any longer or shorter overall, just that you're in one place doing one thing for a much longer period of time than you usually would be. It sounds like you spend longer chunks anyway with one child individually, again since I am in younger guides our stuff is all quick and one of the things I love is that we move from one thing to another really fast. It makes the school time speed by.

And with the other kids getting up and doing other things during that time, that might make it take longer because of interruptions. I don't know, again I like the idea, but am not sure. I would pray through the schedule and just see where something like that might fit (maybe after lunch?? since my kids love read-aloud time so much I would leave it until later because its almost always sure to get done).

I like to keep us together when we can, for the same reason you stated. Even though the youngers might be doing okay with their separate time, sometimes it seems like they get brushed aside for the whole school time. If they seem to like listening to the read-alouds and can do so without being disruptive, I think it could work really well. It's good time together. When my children have been sick, I have treasured sitting on the couch reading books to them, for some reason when everybody's well (maybe they're just too busy being active) I don't do that as much.
You have a good point that it could be a long time for the younger children to be quiet and listening. Hmmmm.... I think what I could do is do, say, the Preparing History and Storytime Readings, and maybe the Poetry. Then I would send the youngers off to play actively in another room for a few minutes while I went over Bible and the "S" boxes. That would give them a few minutes of something different. Then I could have them come back while I read the next child's history reading.

After lunch wouldn't work for me, just because I'll need a nap with a new baby. But once the baby's sleeping through the night that might work. I really like to try to get my teaching done before lunch, which right now we are accomplishing. We start math at 7:30 and are finished by 11:00 or 11:30. (Then my 7 and 10 year olds do some independent work after lunch.)

Well, thanks so much. Lots to think about... :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:16 am
by Carrie
Heart_Mom,

One thing to weigh as you ponder this particular option is that Charlotte Mason advocated that a child aged 9 on up be doing his/her own readings if he/she is able. We agree with that thought, as once kiddos are able to read their own material it really does result in better narrations, better comprehension, increased vocabulary (due to seeing the words in print as well as hearing them), more ownership of the learning, and often less waiting on the parent to be the "reader" when the child is ready and able to do it himself/herself. :D

So, as far as Preparing Hearts goes, with your child being 10 it would be a good idea to be moving that child toward reading his/her own material. We are already expecting the science to be read by the child at this stage, and age is definitely an indicator as to whether the history readings can be done on his/her own as well. :D

Charlotte Mason also was very firm on a child retelling from a single reading. She did not want kiddos to have heard the story before, as she wanted to focus on the habit of attention during the reading. She also did not want abridgements or young versions of the classics being read to the kiddos, as it would then change their experience with the actual work of classic literature when the child was of the age to hear it for the first time. I tend to agree with her in that retelling from a single reading is an important skill to develop. It also keeps the child's attention better when a reading is fresh and new and not something the child has heard before. :D

With this in mind, I think it would really be stealing your thunder for future guides to read aloud everyone's material to each other. This would, in theory, be fine for the first year you are doing it, but what happens when the next child gets to the guide and has already heard ALL of the material in that guide read aloud? :wink: To give you an idea of what I mean, imagine that you went to sign up for a literature class at college and you had two choices. One was a class that would cover a set of classic books all of which you had already read several years prior. The other would cover all new books that you had never read in the past. As you were weighing the two options, you were thinking that taking the class on books you'd already read would be easier, because you probably wouldn't have to reread the books or pay as close attention in class and could just get by with doing the assignments. Even if you did choose to reread each of the books, you would already know the plotline and how the story ended, which would definitely impact the reading experience. :wink: The other class would be harder, because you'd actually have to read the books and pay attention to what was going on in class in order to complete the assignments. You would likely be more interested in reading the books simply to find out how the plots developed and how each story was going to end. Which class would give you the better literature experience? Which one would do more to develop the habit of attention? :D Which reading of the books would leave you on the edge of your seat?

It isn't uncommon for a parent to have the feelings that you are having as your older child is getting ready to gain some independence. I went through this with my oldest child too. As a parent, we want to keep our kiddos by our side and keep reading aloud to them so that we can be sure of what they are reading, and we don't feel like we are out of the loop. :wink: However, if we keep reading all of their material to them, rather than allowing them to do it themselves if they are able... it quickly becomes ALL that we are able to do with our kiddos as their readings get longer and more difficult. This is because it takes much longer to read aloud anything than it takes to read it to oneself. :wink:

At HOD, we desire to allow students to do those tasks for which they are ready and able. This allows us to exchange tasks like reading aloud all of the child's material for other needed teaching tasks like discussing purity, Biblical worldview, self-image, art, music/composers, poetry, etc. These are many tasks that are otherwise skipped because we're too weary from reading aloud all day. We do still hold back storytime in each guide as a read-aloud, so we don't move away from reading aloud entirely. However, we do strive for balance in this area and recognize that your child is maturing and ready to do some of the tasks you've been doing for him/her since she was a young child. :D

The wonderful blessing is that as your older child moves toward being able to take on more responsibility for his/her learning, it frees up the time you will need to focus on your younger children. Sometimes in our quest to "keep up" with the older child's learning, we forget that our younger kiddos deserve the same time and attention from us that our older kiddos received. There is no way to give those little ones that special time alone with us, if we continue to hold on to all of our older kiddo's learning tasks (especially in areas like reading aloud, which is truly not a "teaching-related" task). Instead, we need to shift our teaching with our olders to things that they truly need us to teach, and there is still much that is needed (i.e. like math, grammar, DITHR, writing, dictation, Bible, hearing oral narrations, discussing poetry/primary source documents, worldview, self-image, becoming a young man or woman of God, etc.). :D

In closing I'll share that I visited with a mom at convention last year who had been keeping ALL her kiddos together in CTC. She had kiddos ranging from 7 to high school. She was reading aloud everything to all of them, adjusting for each child, and consequently had only made it through week 15 as she was nearing year-end. Instead of having time to do the purity study with her older girls, she just had them read it on their own because there wasn't time to do it with them. She was so busy reading aloud assignments that we never intended be read aloud that she didn't have time for those things that we really intended for her to be doing with her kids. Her older kiddos could have been doing the reading themselves, but the mother was so focused on keeping everyone together because she didn't want to miss out on the readings because she equated "teaching" and "family time" with reading aloud. :D

Teaching is so much more than reading aloud, which you already know. But I will also share that family-time is so much more than reading aloud together too. This past post will give you more insight on this area: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9343

With what you've shared, I would lean toward having your 10 year old read his/her own history and science. I would choose one set of storytime books to read-aloud to everyone together. Typically, I'd lean toward reading aloud the Bigger child's storytime to all. This is because you could choose a different set of storytime books for your LHFHG child when he/she gets to Bigger. Then, you could read the Preparing storytime books just to your Preparing child, which will be a great alone time as that child will be reading his/her other material on his/her own. :D

I would keep your LHFHG child alone for his/her work to make sure he/she is really understanding the readings and not defaulting to allow the older kiddos to chime in and answer instead. It is also good to read the Thornton Burgess books alone to the LHFHG child as there are so many skills wound within the follow-ups. :D I know my little one guards his time with me and loves having me all to himself during his LHFHG time. :D

I would keep the poetry separate for each guide, because there are so many skills wound within the poetry that the child doing the guide will need. But, I would do the hymn singing from Bigger with everyone. Hymns can easily be sung and enjoyed again and again. :D

You could also have a "Friday" sharing day, where each child shares something he's done or loved from his guide that week. It can be a poem, a hymn, a music selection from the week, a writing assignment, a section from a book, a drawing, their timeline, a notebook entry, etc. This is a wonderful way for kiddos to compliment one another on their work and for the child to select something important to share. :D

I'll link you to a thread that you may have already read, as to why we plan for the guides to be done in the way that we do. Perhaps this will give you some further insights to ponder. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9344

Blessings,
Carrie

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 11:33 am
by Heart_Mom
Dear Carrie,

Thank you so much for replying to my question! I really appreciate it! :D

I've only read your response once, so I may have more questions for you once I'm able to read it again and talk it over with my husband. I do have a question for you now though ...

My 10 year old son is very capable of reading the History readings on his own. He reads on his own with good comprehension right now for Bigger's Science and Extensions (not to mention the several chapter books he reads on his own each week! :wink: ). My concern is how having him read the History would work with Preparing, since the guide is really set up for it being a read-aloud. (Maybe I'm wrong about that?) I was really looking forward to reading Grandpa's Box with him because of the great spiritual discussions I'd like to have. I see in my Preparing guide that there are questions for me to ask him. Can I effectively do this if I haven't read the History reading aloud to him? I have no qualms at all about him reading CHOW on his own.

It's certainly true that having him read the History readings on his own would cut down on the time I would need alone with him. Let me ask you this? How essential are Preparing's Storytime selections? If I'm doing Bigger's Storytime with all of my children, could I skip Preparing's Storytime altogether? Or maybe have my son read them on his own?

Please don't get me wrong: I absolutely LOVE the one-on-one time I have with each child. I just want to try to cut it down a bit so that my youngers are with me more.

Thank you again, Carrie! :D Oh ... I wasn't able to see the link you referred to.

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:24 pm
by Carrie
Heart_Mom,

You caught me online, as we have a housefull of sick kiddos today and have some off of school. This is truly rare for us, but it gives me a moment to answer you! :D

I agree that Grandpa's Box is a wonderful read-aloud and is full of terrific topics to discuss. However, it is also a terrific read-alone book. We have used it both ways. In your unique situation, with kiddos in back-to-back guides like Bigger and Preparing, it is wise to ponder where your focus needs to be and who needs you doing what the most. :D

Preparing is a guide that allows for you to either read-aloud the history spines or for the child to do the reading himself. Age and reading ability play a big part in this decision. Here is the quote from the Introduction of Preparing on this topic:

Reading About History
The “Learning Through History” part of the program is told in story form and provides a one-year overview of world history from creation to the late 1900’s. Biblical stories are interwoven with other stories from world history to show that the flow of history is really one continuous story. Students will be led to see that all of history belongs to God, and is actually “His” story.

History stories are scheduled to be read aloud to the students each day using the following resources: A Child’s History of the World by Virgil M. Hillyer, Grandpa’s Box by Starr Meade, Life in the Great Ice Age by Michael and Beverly Oard, and Hero Tales: Volume I by Dave and Neta Jackson. These stories provide the focus for this part of the plans. If your children are able to read these stories well on their own, you may encourage them to do the readings independently. The areas that follow are linked to the daily stories:

*Day 1: questions guide reflection about the day’s readings; questions range from comprehension to evaluation and are based on the levels of Bloom’s Taxonomy (The level of each question is noted in parentheses.)
*Day 2: a Bible passage which connects to the history story is shared and discussed
*Day 3: oral narration is practiced by retelling the story
*Day 4: guided instruction is provided for writing a written narration


So, with Charlotte Mason's thoughts in mind, with which I agree, I would lean toward having your child do the history readings on his own. We did this with our second son, as he was 9 and was able to do the readings himself. I just skimmed the readings with book in hand as we did the follow-ups. If my son was unsure about any of the answers or assignments, I helped him look back through the reading to find the needed helps. :D This worked well for us.

If you did not want to miss out on Grandpa's Box, perhaps you could do just that book as a read-aloud? That is another option. 8)

As far as the Storytimes go for Preparing, whenever you have more than one storytime going with HOD, we do encourage you to downsize to doing one to make it more manageable. The Storytime for LHFHG would also be necessary though and is easy to do in addition to the other storytime as it is so short. :D

With this thinking in mind, I would lean toward doing Bigger's storytime with all of your children as it is more palatable for little ears. As far as Preparing goes, you could either omit it and then do it as a read-aloud with everyone next year when your next child is in Preparing, or you could have your older son read it on his own this year. You'll just want to be sure not to overload your older son. So, if he is reading the Deluxe Package books, he could also read the storytime books to himself. However, if he is doing the Extension Pack (instead of the Deluxe Package), I wouldn't have him read the storytime books himself as together they will be quite a bit of reading. Unless your son is an avid reader. Then, you could possibly have him read the storytime books as bedtime reading, only giving him the book when the guide begins scheduling it and not allowing him to go on to the next one until the guide begins scheduling the next book in line. :D Then, make sure you get each book back from him, so you can store it away so little ones don't accidentally read it for their free-time reading too. :wink:

Anyway, these are just options to consider that are unique to your family because you have kiddos in guides coming up on one another in quick fashion. :D I redid the link, so hopefully it will work too. :D

Blessings,
Carrie

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 7:44 pm
by Heart_Mom
Oh, Carrie, I'm so sorry your children are sick! I hope they recover quickly!

Thank you for explaining how I would do the History questions if I haven't read it aloud. That makes sense to me!

Also, I think having him read the Storytime set on his own might be the best option, although if I can squeeze it into my day to read those books aloud to just him I certainly will. I'm planning on having him do the Deluxe set, and probably not the Extensions ... well at least not formally. I may make the each Extension book available to him to read on his own for fun once we get to the point in the guide where they are scheduled. He just LOVES to read! I've been reading through some of the Extension books, and I think he'll be able to read them. But I think he'll benefit more from the skill-building in the Deluxe package, so that's what I'll officially assign to him.

I printed out your replies to me for my husband to read. Thank you so much for helping us navigate how to make HOD work for our (expanding!) family. :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 10:38 am
by Heart_Mom
Carrie, I talked with my husband and we are planning to do what you suggested and have my son do his own readings for Preparing! I think this will help a lot with cutting time down a little bit. :D

One other question for you: One thing that takes up a at least 15 minutes per day, is the spelling program we're using. All About Spelling has been very helpful for my son, but I'd like to switch to HOD spelling/dictation. (I'm doing HOD spelling with my 7 year old and it takes less than 5 minutes!) I'd like to do that once we finish Level 3 of AAS, which should be within a month or two. My question is this: how would I go about determining what level to put him? He's finishing 4th grade now. He's not a natural speller. Generally, the words he's been explicitly taught in AAS, he remembers how to spell easily; but he tends to misspell many other words, even ones that he sees all the time in his reading.

Could I start at the first level of dictation and see how it goes? How would I know if it was the right level for him -- maybe that he would usually only need one or two days to pass the dictation package?

Another thought is that I could do both spelling lists, but do 20 words per week, since most of them (hopefully) would be easy. So, for instance, I'd do both List 1 and List 2 from Unit 1. Does that make sense?

Any thought for me?

Thank you! :D

Re: Multiple Guides: Readings all together?

Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:01 pm
by John'smom
I'm not Carrie, but thought I'd give you the link to a recent thread where I asked about where to start dictation. We also use AAS and my ds will finish up level 4 this year. I've started him where Julie suggested and so far he's had no mistakes. Here's the thread. Not sure if it would help. I too would love the less time on spelling.