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Hi! I am new to HOD, but am wanting to use it next year for my 2 oldest children. They will be in 3rd and 5th grades. I was hoping for a little help in deciding whether to use Bigger or Preparing. I am concerned that Bigger won't be enough for a 5th grader, but my (soon-to-be) 3rd grader is not a strong reader yet, though she is improving.

I placed them on the charts and the 5th grader (boy) places in Preparing, although his writing is not as strong as it should be, and my 3rd grader (girl) is in between Bigger and Preparing. She writes well (in print and cursive), has had some grammar (FLL 1&2) and is strong in math. Her only downfall is her reading, although she comprehends very well both what is read to her and what she reads herself. So in everything except reading, she places in Preparing. I have read on other boards that HOD is very challenging and I don't want to go with Preparing and get her in too deep, but I am afraid that Bigger will be too light for a 5th grader, although he is behind in some areas.

We are currently using MFW ECC and not loving it. It is OK and I like that I can keep them together for most things, but I like the look and structure of HOD much better. I also have 3 younger children who next year will be in 1st, pre-K (planning on using MFW K with her), and almost 2. I don't know if I can run 2 HOD guides for the older two, plus a 1st grade program, and work with the pre-ker.

If you read this far, thank you! And if you have any words of advice I would be SO grateful!

I would definitely recommend Bigger if you want to keep them in the same guide (you could use the extension set for the 5th grader). We started our HOD journey in Preparing (I had a 4th grade girl--good reader, weak writer, a 5th grade boy--special needs, and a 7th grade boy whom I wanted to combine.) The reading selections in Preparing were excellent, but the writing and science assignements were too difficult for my 4th grader. Preparing expected them to be able to write a descriptive paragraph, original poetry, and do fairly long copywork in cursive. It also assumed that they can write Bible verses in cursive without seeing it in cursive. My daughter could write in cursive mostly without looking at a guide, but was pretty slow at it and she had many tears over how long it took her to finish her writing assignments.

I had heard that the next guide CTC was a big jump in expectations and in time commitment. I knew she could never do it as a 5th grader, so I moved the older boy ahead to RTR for 8th grade, and moved the younger two back to Bigger with extension for this year (my daughter is 5th grade now.) We stayed at grade level for math and reading selections. We are doing R&S 4, we do dictation out of the RTR book, and we added in Apologia Zoology 2 for additional science.

Ideally, if I could do it over, I would have put my older boy in a separate guide (in 7th grade he would have been able to do most of independent and it wouldn't have been hard to do 2 guides), and I would have done Bigger with extension for my 4th grade girl and special needs 5th grader. Then we would have done Preparing with extension for her 5th grade year. If your child is a strong reader, going back a guide and using the extension is a great option because it increases the amount and difficulty of the readings for history and science without increasing the writing assignments.

You really might want to think about doing 2 guides. If you combined them in Preparing this year, would you try to put your youngest in CTC next year? Just something to think about.

I think it much easier to add to a guide than it is to deal with assignments that are too difficult.

HTH

Thank you for responding! How much time does each guide take? I want to make sure I am not shortchanging someone by trying to do too much. I am afraid that running 2 guides, plus a 1st grade and K program will stretch me too far. But at the same time, I worry that my oldest is falling behind and would be in 9th by the time I got to Rev to Rev. Thanks again for your input!

You might just wait and reasses where your daughter places in a few months. Sometimes they can make BIG jumps in a short time. Especially with reading. I will be doing Preparing next year with a 3rd and 5th grader. We are doing Bigger this year. My younger son is doing well now. I think his reading is his weakest spot. From the looks of Preparing that will be okay. I can start by reading some of it to him and during the year he will probably take off. I actually expect him to take off now. He is doing DITHOR level 2 books now and doing very well.

With your other children I would not do 2 guides for your older ones. In the end you will short change everyone that way. I would consider doing Little Hearts for HIS glory for your 1st grader along with a upper level guide with your two olders. HOD does not recommend doing 2 teacher intensive guides together. The most teacher intensive guides would be Bigger and Preparing. I think Preparing takes 4 hours. The time is broken down somewhere on here with teacher, and independent time. Look on the Preparing board for those answers.

Both are wonderful guides and contain very meaty material so I wouldn't worry at all about your 5th grader not getting enough no matter which guide you choose. The placement chart is very accurate in placing so if they both place fairly solidly in Preparing, I would tend to lean that way. As far as the reading goes for your dd, you will or can be reading the history out loud to her so if her comprehension is good, then it shouldn't be a problem. The reading that she will be doing independently for the independent history time is not too difficult so it would give her a great introduction to reading her own history. The extensions for your older son, will challenge him a bit in the reading and increase the level overall for him. My biggest concern for your daughter would be the writing demands in Preparing. Here is a link that discusses the differences in writing requirements between Preparing and Bigger: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602 Another consideration is the time. Preparing is going to require more time for your dc to do, but probably after the first few weeks or so, less of your time. Bigger takes about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of time total with much of that including you involved. Preparing takes about 3 1/2 to 4 hours total but at least 1/2 of that will end up being independent work for your dc after they are used to the guide. Here is a link to that shows the break down of time: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2093&start=135 scroll down a bit and you'll see the times listed for many of the guides. I think if I were you, I would print out the first week's plans for both Bigger and Preparing and read through them side by side and see which workload feels more like your dc could handle. In Bigger most of the boxes are still mostly teacher involved or semi-independent. Once you get to Preparing, the dc start doing more independent work and those boxes are marked with an I. You'll want to think through those and see if you feel like your dc will be able to do those independently after an adjustment period and if you feel they will be able to do the semi-independent ones with just a little upfront directions. Hopefully thinking through these few things will help you as you ponder the right fit.

Bigger takes about 2 1/2 to 3 hours of time total with much of that including you involved. Preparing takes about 3 1/2 to 4 hours total but at least 1/2 of that will end up being independent work for your dc after they are used to the guide.

Something to remember though, is that the designation of a box as T or I is based somewhat on the age Carrie planned the guide for (Bigger says for 7-9YO). If you are using it with an older child, as I am, the child can do boxes marked as T independently. My daughter can do the science readings, the reading about history and extension history on her own. She looks up the assignment for poetry, notebooking, ect and often does this on her own too. She orally narrates everything she reads and if there are poetry questions, we discuss theses after she has read the poem. Bigger certainly does not take more time than Preparing. In Preparing the readings were longer and sometimes she got frustrated, so I ended up reading them to her. The writing was very difficult and so we ended up doing that together too. So if you use a guide on the older end of the extension, you can use your own discretion as to what should be "Independent" and what should be "Teacher" led.

In the sample of Bigger, I don't see any of the boxes being marked like they are in Preparing. It seems like it is all teacher led. Is that right?

I also worry about my oldest taking so long to get to the last guide. He would be in 9th grade at that point. Are people successfully using the last guide in 9th grade and it being enough? I want to make the best choice and not shortchange anyone.

Thank you to all who have responded!

beccad777,

The ladies are doing a terrific job of helping you talk through your options. From what you've shared so far about your kiddos, I would be very hesistant to place your 3rd grade daughter in Preparing, as it requires strong reading skills since the child will be reading her own Independent History Study box readings and directions as well as her own science readings and all accompanying directions. Even if she could somehow get through Preparing Hearts with much help, there would be little chance of her being able to read her own history and science in CTC the following year, as these are very challenging.

For that reason, I would definitely lean toward placing your two students in Bigger Hearts, if you desire to keep them together. You would use the Extensions for your older son along with it. Bigger is targed for ages 7-9 with extensions for 4th and 5th graders. So, your son would technically fit in the Extension range of Bigger. I do think that there are quite a few skills in Bigger that would be good for your older child to have as well.

In looking ahead, It is not uncommon for students to use our guides for high school. So to use MTMM for grade 9 would actually work very well. We have families using our guides from CTC on up through MTMM for high school, with some adjustments and extensions. MTMM is targeted for ages 12-14 with extensions for 9th and 10th graders, so your son would be fine reaching MTMM in grade 9. We also have 4 more guides to come after MTMM. Your son would just omit the final guide in the cycle for high school.

It will be important to add some things for your older son if you do desire to combine him in Bigger. He will need a higher level of grammar (probably Rod and Staff English 4), a higher level of spelling/dictation, a higher level of math, DITHR Level 4/5 with a book pack that matches him well, and possibly an additional writing program once weekly like Igniting Your Writing.

Your daughter should be able to do Bigger as written. I'd advise English 2 for her as a good place to begin after FLL 1&2. We used FLL 1&2 with our own oldest son many, many moons ago. Depending on her reading needs, she may need all or the last half or more of the Emerging Reader's Set. If you could share a few titles of some books she's currently reading that would help us advise you better in that area.

Feel free to share your thoughts!

Blessings,
Carrie

beccad777 - Carrie gave some great advice here , and I agree with it whole-heartedly! I think you would really enjoy doing Bigger Hearts with your 2 dc - it is such a terrific guide. The extensions will beef up the areas of history and science nicely for your older student, and the Appendix of Bigger Hearts has a nice plan for the extensions all scheduled out day by day to match the daily plans. The extension follow-ups follow a rotation, and will be a nice way to extend for your older student. You could just get the PHFHG teacher's guide and follow the plans for R & S English 4, use the dictation from the Appendix (there are 3 levels of dictation in PHFHG), and use the math levels if they fit. Otherwise, you can just use whatever math you have been using or whatever level fits best. For writing, you could easily do "Igniting Your Writing". This is a no prep easy to add writing program that has 3 levels in it - beginner, middle, advanced, so whatever fits your student best you can use. These extensions would be easy to do and would allow you to enjoy combining your dc nicely in Bigger Hearts. We loved Bigger Hearts here - I think you'd really enjoy it. I depend upon Bigger Hearts to set the stage in so many skills, and then we reap the rewards of that strong foundation in all the guides to follow. It really is an integral guide for teaching so many skills and getting students off to the right start. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie