Questions about placemnt

[alliclaymoore]

Hi Everyone,
My name is Allison. I have three children. This will be our first year using HOD. I am really hoping I have done the last of my "curriculum hopping". I have switched at least one or two subjects every year since starting homeschool with my oldest. I have very few things that I have been happy with for a whole year much less that I am willing to buy again the next year. But I have done extensive research on HOD and have been happy with all that I have found out about it. This sounds exactly like what I have been looking for. I have been trying to pull together various books and "tweak" other curricula to get them to work with Charlotte Mason style. Imagine my surprise when I found that HOD does all the pulling together and tweaking for me! So I am very excited to get started (I may not be able to wait until next school year), and want to figure out what to order ASAP! I really have high hopes for this and can picture us using HOD throughout.

I was thinking I would place the older two (8 and 11) together, but after looking at the placement charts, I think I need to place them separately. For one thing so that my oldest can get through all of the rest of the levels before she graduates. And also because I think she is ready for a more than my middle child is. But I really don't know what level to put them in. I have looked at the placement chart and selection chart until I am cross-eyed, but I guess until I hold some of the books in my hand, I am not going to know if it is too easy or too hard for my children.

My oldest (11) is a good reader and really enjoys reading, but I haven't taught her cursive yet, so that really puts her on two different charts. My middle (8) can read fairly well (he rarely needs help reading the words, but sometimes gets through the read aloud passage and isn't sure what he just read), but doesn't enjoy reading aloud very much. He is very mathematically minded (even though he will tell you he doesn't like math) and can often understand concepts that are difficult for his older sister to grasp. But he also has not learned cursive and has a mental block when asked to write more than a very short paragraph (not the mechanics of writing, just the process of spelling and writing and thinking about what he is going to write all at the same time.) He has been working one grade level above where he is supposed to be by age, because he wanted to be like his sister and "do homeschool" when he was three. I gave him a K4 workbook to go through, and he completed the whole thing within 5 months. Before he turned 4 he was already writing his full name, and reading 3 letter words. So when the next school year came around, I just went ahead and let him do a full year K5 curriculum, thinking that it would be too hard for him and we would take it slow, but every year he has had no problem progressing to the next level. But this past year (I think mostly just because he doesn't enjoy work of any kind) he has really dragged his feet in every subject. I feel he could do it, but maybe it is time for me to get him back to the right level for his age. I was thinking this coming year would be a good chance to do that, since there are no grade levels listed on the guides and books. Maybe that way he wouldn't notice the "demotion". So the first question, I guess is where do y'all think I should place each of them?

Also, before I discovered HOD, I was planning on just getting my 4 yr-old a simple K4 workbook to introduce her to the things 4 yr-olds usually learn in school. I am not at all concerned with her getting behind if I didn't do anything at all, since I waited until my oldest was 6 before I did much "school" with her, and she picked up everything she needed to know very quickly. So as far as "school" goes for my youngest, I am mostly starting her this year because she wants to be like her older siblings. But now that I have gotten very excited about starting HOD with my older two, I am wondering, should I go ahead and put my youngest in LHTH? The price of three different programs is a consideration, but if many of you say it would be worth it to go ahead and use LHTH with her, I may try to swing it. Another thing I am concerned about is having time to go through three separate programs every day. Up until now, I have combined whatever I could with the older two, since they are so close in age. And it still seems like it takes us forever to get through a school day. So I am wondering how I am going to do it with three. I know that eventually I will be having all three of them, just don't know how the adjustment is going to be with switching to HOD. Oh! I forgot to mention that she already knows all her colors, shapes and letters. She knows the sound of about half of the letters, but has not started blending any together yet. She can count to twenty without help and to 100 with minimal help. So I don't even know if LHTH is the right place to start with her or not.

Another question I want to ask, how do I know if I should get the economy package or the deluxe package or what? I appreciate all the options (I really do) but I feel a little overwhelmed. I just want someone to tell me what to do, lol! I know I want to use the science portion of this. Still not sure about math (we actually like the math we are using, amazingly enough). I just don't know if it would detract from the whole process to not be doing Singapore Math. We have tried Singapore before and it seemed a bit dry and too repetitious to us. But perhaps HOD has a different take on it, and I don't want to miss out on that because of a previous bad experience. And then adding in the readers and deciding between emerging reader, or whatever. Also not knowing if adding DITHOR and the suggested reading is a good idea or overkill if we already have chosen all the other options for book packages to add. Since I have never used HOD, I don't know how it all is going to work together. One of my weaknesses is not being able to imagine what something will be like until I have it in front of me. I suppose that is why we have tried so many different curricula and not been happy with most. Until I get it in front of me, I don't know if it is going to work for us or not.

So I am wondering if I should wait and look at it all at the upcoming Homeschool Convention I will be attending in a few weeks or try to order and hope for the best. I think if I look at it all, it might make more sense to me, but I may get on someone's nerves with all the questions I need to ask, lol.

I really didn't intend on writing a whole novel when I started this post, but it seems that I have done just that. So thank you to anyone who is still reading, and I hope all my rambling made sense to somebody.

Blessings!
Allison

[mamatothree]

I too have some of the same questions. I will be watching to see what advice you get.
I am glad to hear I am not the only one who has gone through quite a few differnt curriculum choices. I feel like a curriculum junkie.
But after "stalking" the HOD message boards and going over the catalog again and again I do feel like this may be my last "fix". I have high hopes that I will be able to place my kids in the best HOD place for them and that we will no longer bounce around between curriculum choices.

[Robbi]

I'm not much help with placement becuz my oldest is 7 and in Beyond. Oh, I do have my 4 yr old in LHTH and he too, knew his colors and letter names before we started but has learned SO much in it. I think it would be fine for your 4 yr too.

I really just wanted to encourage you that if you are going to a convention that HOD is going to be at then that would be WONDERFUL! You would get a chance to talk to Carrie and Julie directly! You can find the schedule of their conferences on the main home page in a tab at the top, I think I found the link. http://www.heartofdakota.com/conference.php

We are enjoying our first year homeschooling, all because of HOD!!!

[creativemommy]

My thoughts after reading your post is wait to order until you can see it at your upcoming hs convention. Carrie & Julie are wonderful to talk with and have the best advice. . That way when you place an order there or later at home you will know exactly what you need.

I can't comment about your 11yo placement as we aren't there yet...hopefully someone else will chime in.

My ds is 8 to and is loving BIGGER this year. It sounds like the BIGGER guide would work well for you 8yo. You don't want to get to far ahead in the guides too early or it will frustrate your child.

As for your youngest, don't worry. You can begin LHTH next year after you have a year with running 2 guides. It is a great simple program and while your child may know the basics, the Bible stories and rhymes are great! You could always use the R&S workbooks from LHFHG. Then when you do LHFHG you could use the Thinking Skills wbk. I did tHis with my daughter and it worked well for her.

If you really want to do LHTH next year, you could enlist the help of you 11yo. I know other families have done it that way.

[blessedmomof4]

Just wanted to hit a few points-I hope Carrie or Julie see your post and give you more detailed direction:)
LHTH would be great for your 4 year old, and keep in mind it takes only 30 minutes a day, leaving plenty of time for your other children. Another thing that can help when doing separate guides is to stagger-start, getting your oldest child into a routine and then on down the line Finally, the guides from Preparing on up are written for a 4-day week, and progressively lead the student to be more independent, leaving more time for busy moms to do other mom stuff Based on what you shared, Preparing might be a good place to combine your older two, with extensions for the oldest child if needed. Preparing takes about 4 and a half hours a day once you get on a roll As for which things to order, on the website packages page for each individual program, there is a little "light bulb" icon that says Helpful Tips On How to Order next to it, click there, it opens a "box" with a list of instructions. If you need more placement and ordering help, call and talk to HOD or email-they will get back to you and help!

[Carrie]

Welcome to the HOD Board! We're glad to have you here. Thanks so much for taking time to share about your situation. You are not alone in your curriculum hopping, as I was a hopper with my oldest too!

The ladies are doing a good job of getting the ball rolling as we begin to ponder options for your family. Even though you have already looked at the placement chart many times, I am going to ask you to take one more look. The reason is because in order to advise you accurately, we need to get a better feel for where each of your kiddos place as individuals on the first page only of the chart. For our purposes right now, don't pay any attention to the other pages of the chart...only focus on page 1.

Next, set aside the cursive issue, as we can deal with that separately. If you plan to use your own math, then set aside math as a consideration for placement. So, now we're down to the root of placement for your family. If you can let us know where your kiddos place in the other areas of the first page of the chart (as individuals), then we can move forward with clearer purpose. Here's a link to the placement chart: http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

If you get a chance to share a couple of book titles each child is currently reading on his/her own that would help. Also, if we knew what they've each had for grammar up to this point that would be another help. One more help would be to know if your oldest daughter has read any of her own history/science up to this point and how independent she has been as far as reading and following written directions. Is she a fairly independent worker? What about writing for your oldest? How does she feel about it and how much writing instruction has she had?

We look forward to hearing back from you and discussing options!

Blessings,
Carrie

[alliclaymoore]

Hi, thanks for all the responses!

I am going to quote from Carrie's reply and then answer the questions.

Even though you have already looked at the placement chart many times, I am going to ask you to take one more look. The reason is because in order to advise you accurately, we need to get a better feel for where each of your kiddos place as individuals on the first page only of the chart. For our purposes right now, don't pay any attention to the other pages of the chart...only focus on page 1.
Ok. I will go will my oldest one first. She is 10 now. She will be a month away from her 11th birthday when we start the new year. She is an independent reader. (She loves to read.) She has read all the American Girls books she can get her hands on, and has read several of the Mandie books by Gladys Leppard. She is about to start the Little House books. She also enjoys having me read to her. She has had no exposure to formal literature study, but could use DITHOR. (Not sure what level she would be at since we have not done it before.) We have done some narration with her, but the best work I get out of her on that is when she tells me and I write it down. I think she would do well with more narration, but I haven't done enough for her to be very strong in it up to this point. She has composed some original poetry and songs, and a few fictional short stories. When she writes poetry, I just allow her to be creative without telling her anything (except spelling) that she should change. When she writes fiction, I try to go over it with her and help her be more descriptive and such, but most of this is coming out of my memory of my creative writing courses rather than a curriculum. I have done no dictation with her, so I don't know how she will do with that. She catches on pretty easily, which is good, but on the flip side, because she usually catches on easily, she gets discouraged quickly if she isn't catching on as easily as she is used to. For that reason, I want to make sure the curriculum is challenging, but not so much of a stretch that she will want to give up all together. She will be finishing up Easy Grammar 5 just before starting HOD. I do plan to go ahead and use R&S as you have it written, but don't know which level would do well after Easy Grammar 5. I am enjoying the math we are using right now, so we may just stick with it. If we get to where she is not learning well with it, we are open to switching to Singapore and go along with your guidelines. We will just take a "wait and see" approach.

Next, set aside the cursive issue, as we can deal with that separately. I do have a cursive program I can used with them both and get them ready before we start next year if that is the only thing that is keeping her from placing in a certain level.

She can do independent work, but is not as far along on that as I hoped she would be at this point. Honestly, I think she just likes the company. Nothing is quite as fun if she has to do it alone. So she calls me in to answer questions and many times I just end up sitting with her while she does it on her own. I would like to move her more into the independent work, because this will be the fist year I will be teaching her younger sister. I know I am going to need to fit that in to my schedule somewhere.

We have been doing Apologia Science up to this point, and because her younger brother was in with her, I have done all the reading aloud to both of them and then waiting while they both draw a picture or write a story about what we just learned or tell it back to me, whatever the case may be. Generally, she is finished and waiting for her brother to finish every assignment (this is partly to be expected because he is almost 3 years younger, but he really has a hard time staying focused on anything that doesn't interest him at the moment.) For that reason, even though I think it would be easier (and I know it would be less expensive) to combine them, I am thinking it might be beneficial to them both if I had them on separate levels. I have really been going back and forth on that one.

If I need to answer anything else about her I will be glad to. Not sure if I was thorough enough (or maybe too thorough).


Now on to my son.

He will be 8 when we start the new curriculum. He can read well for his age, but mostly enjoys joke books. He reads the really easy books to his little sister, but didn't have too much difficulty reading the Mandie books out loud to us (we read those together, the children and I taking turns.) When reading out loud, he gets most of the words right (except ones we don't generally use, but he is pretty good at sounding even new words out). However, I don't know how much he retains. We can sit down and let him read a story to us. If it is short, he will remember most of what went on, but if the chapter gets too long, he forgets. He does well retaining when someone is reading to him, though.

The books that are on his level are the Sugar Creek Gang books (not sure if you are familiar with them) and joke books of course. He does pick out books from the library and as long as it is something he is interested in, he can tell you all about it after he as read it. So I am thinking with him the difference is interest. He can read; he can retain; and he can do both at the same time IF he is interested, lol. I am not sure what the 2/3 level of DITHOR is like, but I think it would be good for him to learn more about Literature of different types rather than just what he is interested in. But I don't want to rush him if he is not ready, so I am not sure about that. He is doing Easy Grammar 3 this year and will be finishing up before we start HOD. If I put them both in the same level of HOD, I may just get Easy Grammar 4 for him and let her do the R&S that goes with the level, since I don't think he is ready to learn the same grammar as his sister. I have done very little narration with him as well (mostly in science). He tends to be short, sweet, and straight to the point when he narrates. Many times, I have to prompt him for more information. I have done no dictation with him yet either, but I think he would be fine with very short dictation exercises.

He does very little independently, mostly because if I walk away his mind wanders. What am I saying? His mind wanders when I am right there. I could be in the middle of reading a very exciting lesson and he will suddenly say something like, "Mommy, did you know Ryan has a new toy car?" or "Mommy, what are we going to eat for supper?" But at least when I am with him, I can reign his thoughts back in more quickly. When I was using a workbook intensive curriculum, I would give him the pages he needed to do for the day, and it would take hours to do one page. Not because the work was difficult, but because there were more interesting things to think about at the time, like how cool the eraser looks when you rub the whole thing away on the book. Or what happens when you tear paper and ball it up and throw it at your sister. So I have learned that I need to sit with him. Yet I know I can't go to college and sit with him, so I am trying to train him to focus on the right things rather than just whatever catches his fancy.


If you get a chance to share a couple of book titles each child is currently reading on his/her own that would help. Also, if we knew what they've each had for grammar up to this point that would be another help. One more help would be to know if your oldest daughter has read any of her own history/science up to this point and how independent she has been as far as reading and following written directions. Is she a fairly independent worker? What about writing for your oldest? How does she feel about it and how much writing instruction has she had?

We look forward to hearing back from you and discussing options!

Blessings,
Carrie

Ok, I hope I answered everything, but if not, just let me know. Thank you so much for taking the time to help me with this. The ladies on this board have been so helpful as well. I have been reading testimonies about HOD(from several different websites). I usually end up in tears over how God has been using HOD to grow children and Moms as well spiritually. I am "chomping at the bit" to get started. I am going to try to hold myself back until they are through with what they are doing right now, but it is going to be a long 3 months, lol.

Blessings!
Allison

[my3sons]

Hi Allison, and welcome to the HOD Board! We enjoy our homeschooling days so much with HOD, and I know you will as well. Carrie's questions and your detailed answers are so helpful. From what you've shared so far, I'm thinking BHFHG (with extensions for older dd) and/or PHFHG (depending on ds). I have one more quick question. Can you share how much your ds is used to writing each day? Sentences? Paragraphs? A page? Also, how about dd's daily writing? What are your thoughts when you read this comparison of writing between BHFHG and PHFHG?

Amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

I will be glad to give placement advice then, and I know Carrie will too. She is in the middle of writing her new guide, but she always gets back to ladies on the board as time allows. I will watch for your response and get back to you here then. Placement takes a little time, but it's a whole year of your life, and when it's right, the whole year goes fantastic! That's why I want to be sure I have as much info as possible to hopefully give sound advice.

In Christ,
Julie

[alliclaymoore]

From the looks of the writing post you linked, my son (8) would probably do well with Bigger, and my daughter, (11) would do well with Preparing. That is what I have been leaning towards anyway. One thing I was wondering, in a last ditch effort to combine them. How do you think it would work if I bought Bigger and put both children in it, but let my daughter work on it faster(rather than do the extensions), since it will be much easier for her. I know that would mean they would be on different days, so it wouldn't help me with the time considerations, but it would be helpful financially to only buy one level right now (two if you count the one for my 4 yr old). Then, when she gets through with Bigger, I can go ahead and get Preparing and get her started at whatever speed feels right for her at that time. Then I would just be buying one level at a time.
Actually, the reason I was wanting to do that in the first place was not for financial reasons. I was wanting my DD to get a good grasp on American history before we move on with World History. We have studied some American History, but going through from 1500's through 1970's sounds like it will be more helpful than the sketchy History we have done in the past. However, if I put them both in Bigger at regular speed and let her do extensions, then she will not have time to complete the High school HOD levels before it is time for her to graduate, and I don't want her to miss out on any of those either.
Oh how I wish I had found HOD earlier! Has anyone ever heard of someone homeschooling their child until they were much older than 18 just to get in all the good things they want to teach? I know, I am crazy, lol.

[Carrie]

Allison,

Thanks so much for being so willing to share information about your kiddos. I appreciate your patience in hearing back from us. You did a terrific job of giving us insight into your kiddos and their skill levels.

As I read through your posts, I am leaning toward Preparing Hearts as a good placement fit for your older daughter. I think that Preparing will provide a good foundation in the skills she'll need to be successful in CTC. I also think that the readings in CTC and level of independence in that guide would be difficult for her and that a year going through Preparing will make all the difference in her readiness to do that particular guide. Your daughter will be doing her own science readings, and you could weigh whether you think she should do the Deluxe Package books or the Extension Books. I truly think you should pick whatever you feel suits her better.

I'd also have your daughter do her own history readings, since Charlotte Mason advocated having a child aged 9 on up do her own readings if she is able. She would also do her own science readings. Yet, you would be involved in doing the follow-ups.

I agree that Rod and Staff English 4 sounds like a good fit for her. It is scheduled in Preparing Hearts at full-speed daily for you. I would also lean toward Level 4/5 in DITHR with whatever book pack you think suits your daughter best. I'd lean toward Level 4/5 or Level 5/6 Girl Interest for her. Link here: http://www.heartofdakota.com/DITHOR56-girls-pack.php

I think that Bigger Hearts sounds like it would be younger than we'd want to place your daughter, as she's ready to be placed in a program that moves her forward according to her maturity and readiness level without waiting on her brother to finish. Truly, 3 years between kiddos is a pretty large age gap especially when your oldest is a girl and your next oldest is a boy. We have this gap at our house between each of our boys and really find that we need to separate them to meet their needs where they are currently functioning.

With this in mind, as far as your son goes, I would lean toward placing him in Beyond Little Hearts. While he may be able to handle Bigger Hearts, I think he could really benefit from having his own program on his own level. This would give him a year where he could really learn to listen to the readings, practice narrating well, have less writing to do within the guide giving him a chance to mature in this area, and have shorter assignments. Bigger Hearts is a big jump up in writing and listening level from Beyond. I think that placing him in Beyond, while adding in the right level of literature study for him where he excels may be a nice balance. In this scenario, I would look at starting him on Beyond now. It is not an expensive program and would be a great intro. into HOD. I'd lean toward DITHR Level 2/3 with him with Level 3 Book Pack linked here: http://www.heartofdakota.com/drawn-into-optional3.php

Your daughter and your son could do DITHR together. I think you could also add Rod and Staff English 2 or 3 for your son. I'd lean toward English 2, as it covers much more than Easy Grammar. Typically, we recommend for third graders to do English 2. However, you'll know best in this area.

Doing Beyond and Preparing is a good balance for the teacher, and I think you'll find that you really enjoy your time with your son alone while your daughter works a bit more independently. Although, you'd still have great discussions and time with your daughter too.

These are just my thoughts, so feel free to share yours.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

I wanted to let you know that I'm still pondering your placement situation, as I'm wanting you to find the best fit for your family. I'm wondering as I'm pondering if you wouldn't mind sharing when your son will be 9 and when your older daughter will be 12? Is your older daughter going to be considered a 6th grader next year, or a 5th grader?

Blessings,
Carrie

[alliclaymoore]

My son is about to turn 8 this month. So he will be 8 for the most part of next school year. We school year-round and start in June. My daughter will be turning 11 in July, so she will be 10 for the first month and 11 for the remainder of the school year. She will be in 6th grade, and my son is supposed to be moving into the third grade by his age, but he is ahead of himself by a year, and is completing 3rd grade now. I was thinking this would be a good year to put him in the correct grade level for his age since he really wouldn't notice it, and I am having a hard time getting him to get things done in a timely manner.

I think you are probably right about putting him in Beyond and her in Preparing. This way we can get a good handle on the HOD way of learning before we move into much harder things for either of them.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help me figure this out!

Blessings!
Allison

[my3sons]

Allison - I just wanted to chime in and say that I think the placement of your ds in Beyond and your dd in PHFHG is going to be great all around! I'm excited for you to see your dd take off on her own, and see your ds truly loving and enjoying doing his own guide tailored just to him! I taught these guides together a few years back and enjoyed it very much. I think you will too. Now you're set, and all that's left to do is get to enjoying HOD in your home!

In Christ,
Julie

[alliclaymoore]

Thank you so much for helping me! I am so excited. I am also excited about the homeschool convention in Greenville, SC that I am going to soon. I will finally get to hold some of the books in my hands and get a clearer picture of how this is all going to work!
Blessings!
Allison