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I would love feedback on placement for my son. He turned eight in December. If he were in school, he would be in 2nd grade, but we have been doing 3rd grade work. He loves to read and has great comprehension skills. He reads on a 4th-5th grade reading level. His struggle is with writing. He hates to answer questions on paper. This year for literature we have been doing Memoria Press's 3rd grade literature guide. For history, we have done D'Aulaires Book of Greek Myths with the Memoria Press's student guide. He has understood everything very well, but has not enjoyed the workbook part (especially the questions). I wanted to try a different approach with him next year and like what I have seen from HOD. We have not worked on composition. Also, we have done a minimal amount of dictation and narration. I wanted advice on where to start him in August of this year (he will be eight, then turn 9 in Dec.). I am trying to decide between Bigger Hearts with the extensions or Preparing. We already use Rod and Staff English 3 and Singapore Math 3A and 3B. If we do Bigger can we do DITHOR with level 4/5 books? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

I think Bigger is a pivotal year to get the kiddos writing a little bit more without it being too overwhelming. In Preparing, the science box is independent. Has your child done any type of notebooking? I would lean towards Bigger especially if you have been doing more of a workbook style of learning. It really gets the kids adjusted to the CM style of learning. The extensions in Bigger are for 4th and 5th graders...so if your child is 3rd then you wouldn't need the extensions.
I think Bigger is a perfect 3rd grade as written without extensions. But for next year if you are already doing R&S English 3 ...I don't know.

Thank you for responding! He is in third now, but will begin next year with fourth. He is a young third grader and we have been doing more of a workbook style for learning.

If you are doing Rod And Staff 3 now, you can just use 4 with Bigger at the rate of a lesson per day. For math, you could buy the Preparing guide for the math schedule in the appendix for Singapore 4A and 4B. The Preparing manuals also have higher levels of dictation if the level 2 dictation found in Bigger were too easy. I think Bigger sounds like a good placement on account of his dislike for writing. On the other hand, if he is doing wel with and going to be done with Rod and Staff 3 before you start Heart of Dakota, Preparing might be a good fit as is...have you had a chance to look at the placement chart? See where he fits especially on the first page, and after you do, share with us
http://www.heartofdakota.com/placing-your-child.php

I have looked over the placement chart. I am planning for this fall. At that time he will be 8 and turn 9 in December. He is reading independently, but I often have him read aloud to me. I would say he reads on a fourth or fifth grade level. For handwriting, we have been doing A Reason For Writing Level C. He writes in cursive, but still has the model in front of him. We have not done his other subjects in cursive. For composition, I have really been slack. I have not started any formal program with him. We have not done written narration or dictation. He will be close to finishing the grammar section of Rod and Staff 3 but not the composition section by the end of this school year. We should be ready for Singapore Math 4A by the fall.

Also, I looked at the samples of Bigger and Preparing. It looked as if Bigger went 5 days a week and Preparing went 4 days a week. I was just wondering if I understood this correctly.

Also, I have a question concerning the extensions for Bigger. Are these just additional books that the student reads on his/her own without questions or activities designed to go with them?

Approximately how many hours a day would Bigger take? Preparing?

One more question (hopefully only one more): Can anyone give me any example of the dictation which is used in Bigger and Preparing? I did not see any samples of this on-line.

Thank you for your patience with all my questions. I have never used HOD, so I am unsure about how the program works.

Thanks to anyone would would give me advice about placing my son this fall!

blessedmommyof4 wrote:I have looked over the placement chart. I am planning for this fall. At that time he will be 8 and turn 9 in December. He is reading independently, but I often have him read aloud to me. I would say he reads on a fourth or fifth grade level. For handwriting, we have been doing A Reason For Writing Level C. He writes in cursive, but still has the model in front of him. We have not done his other subjects in cursive. For composition, I have really been slack. I have not started any formal program with him. We have not done written narration or dictation. He will be close to finishing the grammar section of Rod and Staff 3 but not the composition section by the end of this school year. We should be ready for Singapore Math 4A by the fall.

Also, I looked at the samples of Bigger and Preparing. It looked as if Bigger went 5 days a week and Preparing went 4 days a week. I was just wondering if I understood this correctly.
Yes, from Preparing on up in the HOD guides the work week is 4 days.

Also, I have a question concerning the extensions for Bigger. Are these just additional books that the student reads on his/her own without questions or activities designed to go with them?
Yes, it is a reading list. However, there are suggestions to orally narrate one day, write a paragraph one day, and to draw a picture and write a narration one day in the appendix with the schedule

Approximately how many hours a day would Bigger take? Preparing?
For us Bigger takes about 3-3.5 hours and Preparing takes about 4 hours

One more question (hopefully only one more): Can anyone give me any example of the dictation which is used in Bigger and Preparing? I did not see any samples of this on-line.
If you google Dictation day by day book one in google books, that is where the dictation is derived. HOD has updated some of the outdated langauge though.

Thank you for your patience with all my questions. I have never used HOD, so I am unsure about how the program works.

Thanks to anyone would would give me advice about placing my son this fall!

See notes in color above to specific questions. If my ds9 was where your son is academically, I would place him in Preparing. I think he would be more than ready for it. The dictation from Bigger is in Preparing, I believe as in Bigger you can choose the spelling list or the fist dictation level. I believe the first dication level is in Preparing. Bigger doesn't require cursive in all subjects either. The student is learning Cheerful Cursive. We are practicing oral narration in Bigger. I think written narration begins in Preparing. It sounds to me like he is working on all the skills for Preparing this year and would be ready for it next fall.

I agree with the previous poster-based on what you have shared Preparing would be a great placement for the fall. Oral narration is still part of the guide, and written narration is introduced step by step. You will have 3 levels of dictation to choose from in the appendix. A daily schedule for Singapore 4A/4B is also in the appendix. Using a guide with extensions is usually intended more for combining an older student with a younger student-if he is the only one using this level it is better to place him right where he fits Make sure to also do the self-study deluxe package which is scheduled in the "independent history" box of the daily plans-this includes short indpendent readings and follow-up activities that build skills for the guide to come

Based on what you said about writing, I would go with Bigger. It sounds as though the narration process will be new for you and your son. Going through Bigger is such an excellent segue way to Preparing. It will be a gentle way of easing into all the writing. Another thing to consider is that written narration begins in Preparing. Bigger prepares a child for the written narration that is required in Preparing. I also have a child with a December birthday that is ahead. He is in 2nd grade this year, but if he were in public school he'd be in 1st. If I were in exactly your position having done mostly a workbook style schooling, I would want the foundation that Bigger sets before going into Preparing. Preparing is my most favorite guide yet ... and I am convinced that part of what makes it so enjoyable for us this year is that we did Bigger last year ... it is such an important skill building year. You can do Rod and Staff 4 along with Bigger and whatever 4th grade Math that you wish to do. When I take my 2nd son through Bigger next year, I actually plan on buying all the extension books and letting him read them without having any of the extra work to go a long with it. I have such avid readers that I never seem to have enough books around ... so we will do Bigger as written ... and the extensions will be his pleasure reading books!

Thanks again for all the advice! It seems that about half who have responded think Bigger would be the best fit and the other half who have responded feel that Preparing would be the best fit. So, any other input would be great! I do have another question. Someone had said that the preparing dictation has three levels. Does the dictation in Bigger have three levels as well? One more aspect to this is that I really have wanted to do American history with my son. We have not done this, so this may also be something for me to consider seeing as how it seems either Bigger or Preparing may possibly work well with him.

The Bigger Guide has a choice of a spelling list and one level of dictation. Preparing and the rest of the guides that follow have 3 levels of dictation to choose from that overlap.

As I'm reading through this thread, I can see that we are all trying to get a good feel for what your little honey can do skill-wise in order to advise you more clearly on the best fit for him HOD guide-wise. Truly one guide will fit your child better than the other, however we need a bit more information in order to know which one would be best.

So, if you wouldn't mind answering a few questions, I think we can begin to arrive at a bigger picture of what your little honey can do. First of all, is your son reading the titles in the Memoria grade 3 package on his own and answering the questions on his own? Next, did your history study extend beyond the D'Aulaire Book of Greek Myths this year or was that the main spine? Did your son read his own history and/or science this year or did you read those to him? Did you use something for science this year, and if so was there written work involved? How does your son do with spelling? Is he a natural speller, or is it tough for him? Did you use a spelling program of sorts? Does he just not like writing, or is it time-consuming for him?

We look forward to hearing back from you when you get a chance!

Blessings,
Carrie

Thanks to everyone for all of your advice! I wanted to answer the questions that Carrie had asked.

First of all, is your son reading the titles in the Memoria grade 3 package on his own and answering the questions on his own?

We have done a mixture of me reading aloud to him, him reading aloud to me, and him reading independently. Most of the time we will do a chapter a day (Farmer Boy) and I will read part aloud and he will read the other part of the chapter aloud. However, there have been days that he has just read independently. For the questions, I will usually have him answer them aloud to make sure he is comprehending well and then he will answer those same questions we have just discussed in the study guide. (Some days I allow him to simply answer the questions orally). When he reads the chapter independently, I will put page number references beside the question as a reference to help him answer the question.

We have not completed all of the Memoria Third Grade Literature. We started the year studying Aesop's Fables. Then, we read Little House in the Big Woods and did the Memoria Press Study Guide with this novel. Now, we have just completed Farmer Boy.


Next, did your history study extend beyond the D'Aulaire Book of Greek Myths this year or was that the main spine? Did your son read his own history and/or science this year or did you read those to him?

The only thing we have done for history this year is the D'Aulaire Book of Greek Myths with the Memoria Press Study Guide. We have followed much the same format as with Farmer Boy. However, I have read more of this aloud.

Did you use something for science this year, and if so was there written work involved?

We are doing the Apologia Astronomy course with the notebook. We read this together, alternating between me reading aloud and him reading aloud. We would discuss the main points of each section. I write out the main points, and then he copies them under the fun facts in his notebook. He has answered chapter review questions on his own in his notebook. However, I have given him page numbers as a reference point to help him find the answers.


How does your son do with spelling? Is he a natural speller, or is it tough for him? Did you use a spelling program of sorts?

He is fair at spelling. I would not say that he is a natural speller. We are using Phonetic Zoo (the first level). He does fairly well when he has a list that he is studying, however in his independent work he often misspells words.

Does he just not like writing, or is it time-consuming for him?

He does not like writing. Whenever he has to answer questions for Farmer Boy or the D'Aulaire's Book, he complains about how much it dislikes doing this. He would read and answer questions orally all day without complaint, but it is drudgery for him to place his answers on paper. It is also time consuming for him as well. We have not started a formal composition program and have done a minimal dictation and narration.

I hope my answers to these questions help. Thank you so much for taking the time to ask me these specific questions to try and determine the best placement for him!

I'm sure Carrie can give more info based on your answers, but I would place him in Bigger.

Thanks so much for taking the time to answer my extra questions about your son. I know it was time-consuming to type out the responses, but it was so helpful to me and those of us helping with placement to give us more insight into your son.

From what you've shared in the last post, I would definitely lean toward placing your son in Bigger. There are so many skills wound within Bigger that your son will need as he heads into Preparing Hearts. Plus, we want to have your son enjoy his year, rather than having you pull him through a guide that would likely have more writing and independence than he would be ready for at this stage in his learning. Plus, the content in Bigger will be very interesting and different from what you have been studying this year, which is always a bonus!

Bigger contains plans for math 3A/3B in the Appendix. As far as Rod and Staff English goes, you would just finish English 3 when you begin Bigger, however I would likely move toward doing it only two-three times a week. This is because your son will be getting plenty of other writing practice moments within Bigger Hearts each day, and we want to strive for balance in this area without overwhelming him. When you finish, you could move into Rod and Staff English 4, continuing at the pace of twice weekly instead of daily. You would then finish English 4 in Preparing Hearts.

As far as DITHR goes, I would lean toward DITHR 4/5 with the Level 4/5 Boy Interest Books. You can view the books here: http://www.heartofdakota.com/DITHOR45-boys-pack.php

If you wanted to minimize the writing in DITHR this first year with it, you could use the Level 2/3 Student Book instead, with the Level 4/5 Boy Interest Books. This is also an option. The primary goal is for him to enjoy his literature discussions and enjoy the books he's reading without placing undue emphasis on his written answers.

Since it sounds like your son is already writing in cursive, you could continue with the next level of cursive handwriting book in the series you're already using. Or, you could switch to having your son copy a portion of each unit's poem in Bigger in cursive, doing a line or more each day. This is an optional suggestion in the Bigger guide each week, but it may work well in your situation.

I would also lean toward not using the Extension Books with your son. Even though he may be able to read them, I think you will find Bigger to be full enough for his age without them. We instead want to put his reading emphasis on the DITHR books that he will be reading. The Extension Books are targeted for ages 10-11.

One other thought is that your son may also want to move toward reading his own science as the year progresses. Just make sure that he doesn't read ahead, as slower more thoughtful reading is the goal. Charlotte Mason says that a child aged 9 on up who can read his own material...should. So, this is a possibility for your son after he turns 9.

If you have other questions, ask away! We love to help!

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you so much for taking your time to help me with placing our son in the right program! I am actually very excited to do Bigger with him because I had really hoped to study American history with him! I did have a couple more questions. You had mentioned that I may only need to do English two-three times per week while in Bigger because the program provides plenty of other writing practice moments. I was just wondering if you could expound upon how the writing program works in Bigger. In other words, what are some examples of the types of writing exercises the student will do in Bigger. I just bought Writing With Ease level 2 for him. We started it this week to try and prepare for next year. I wanted us both to have some practice with narration. It is going well. Do you think I could continue this next year while doing Bigger and Rod and Staff English or do you think the writing that we do in Bigger will be all he needs?



The other question I had was concerning the Extension Pack. I am planning to to DITHOR 4/5 with the level 4/5 boy interest books. If what I understand is correct, the deluxe pack in Bigger is for story time and focuses on the 9 genre types of literature. I really love historical fiction, so I was wondering if I could use the Extension Pack titles for our read aloud/ story time components? Do you think that would mess up what he would be learning in any way? I love the idea of studying the 9 genre types, but I know that he will be studying this in DITHOR. I also love reading the historical fiction to tie in with our history studies. I wish I had time to just add in the extension pack as an extra read aloud (in addition to deluxe pack for story time), but I know I do not. Thankfully, the Lord has blessed us with a baby due in May, so I know to do two sets of read-alouds would be too much for next year. (I will also be doing LHTH with our two daughters--one of which will be doing K phonics, math, and handwriting alongside LHTH). Sorry that I got off on those side notes, I just wanted to explain why I did not feel that I could do two read-alouds. So, to summarize, I would love to use the extension pack for story time rather that the deluxe pack (I do understand that the activities will not match up). However, I wanted to get your feedback about doing this. Would it cause any problems for him to do this if we are getting the genre study from DITHOR? Thank you for you patience in reading this. I hope I have made sense!