math help
math help
I have two in Bigger and have done the guide resources(Rod and Staff, dictation day by day, DITHOR, history, science..) except for math. We love HOD! My kids are in different math programs. My daughter is in 4th grade and breezing through Saxon 6/7. It seems to be too much review for her each day and not challenging enough for her. Overall she does not love math, but it does seem to come easily for her. She loves to read, read, read. I have not used Singapore and would love to know more about it--pros, cons, reasons for using it in HOD. Then I wonder if we switched to it, what level I would start her on. Saxon 6/7 is about 6th grade level. Any insights are appreciated.
"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."
Colossians 3:17[/color]
Colossians 3:17[/color]
-
andreamichele13
- Posts: 82
- Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2012 7:56 am
Re: math help
I would like to hear more reviews on Singapore math too. I am unsure of what I will be doing as well. I have a 6th grader in MUS, so I definitely need to keep him where he is, although my 4yo and 5yo have only done the Primer of MUS and could easily switch. I would love to hear about the benefits and pros/cons of Singapore Math, as well!
ds, age 14
ds, age 8
dd, age 6
one on the way in September 2014!
ds, age 8
dd, age 6
one on the way in September 2014!
Re: math help
Also, I would be interested if anyone has used the Discovering Math level yet. Is it user friendly? Can you help your student if they get stuck, even as the concepts get higher level? It is important to me to not be changing programs a lot, so I am curious how people are doing continuing in the Singapore higher math.
Lena
dd3 LHTH
ds 1
ds 2m.
Lena
dd3 LHTH
ds 1
ds 2m.
Re: math help
I did find this so far:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9681&p=70654&hilit= ... ore#p70654:
We have found our dc learn their facts through doing Singapore as it is written. However, if you want to add drill of facts, it is incredibly easy to add as there are a whole host of available drilling facts resources available. Adding the excellent mental math and problem solving skills that Singapore is so strong in is much more difficult to add to a different math program that is weak in these areas. Here are Carrie's comments explaining why HOD chose Singapore math, as I think this is incredibly helpful...
...you are more than welcome to choose your own math curriculum to use with any of our programs (and we do realize that there are many excellent math programs to use out there). However, we have tried many of the big-name, and not so big-name, math programs for at least a year each and found many of them didn't fit our family well for a variety of reasons.
Many of the programs were just too time-consuming in the amount of teacher presentation required. As we added more children to our homeschool, I realized a 30 minute math presentation for one kiddo would quickly turn into 2 hours of math presentation when multiplied times my 4 boys. That would leave precious little time for the many other necessary school subjects.
Some of the programs required too much prep. or planning ahead of time prior to teaching. When I wasn't prepared, my students were wasting time waiting on me. Other programs had way too much drill or too many problems daily for my non-math loving oldest son. So, I found I was tweaking which problems to do daily and eventually the programs hardly resembled the original progam anymore.
In keeping with the Charlotte Mason philosophy for math, I wanted a program with short lessons, some hands-on, almost no prep., in a workbook form (to cut down on time spent copying problems) that emphasized higher-level thinking and reasoning along with computation. I also wanted it to be economical if possible. So, when we began with Singapore we knew we'd found the fit for us.
Where the program lacked hands-on in the early years, I added in lessons to include that. The one problem we have found with Singpaore is that the clean page layout and the few problems on each page makes it easy to assign too much daily, thus complicating what should be a short and sweet program. We compensate for that by including schedules in our guides that follow the original Singpore pacing, completing 2 workbooks in one school year.
Our plans are to phase out the hands-on teacher lessons starting with 3A/3B and move toward the textbook/workbook schedule only at that point. With a strong hands-on background from the previous Singapore years, we're finding the kiddos will be ready for that change.
At this time, we will probably endorse Singapore through 6A and 6B. It gets more teacher-intensive after that point, and we most likely will suggest an alternative prior to continuing on to the New Elementary Math that comes after 6A/6B. Since Singapore has such a solid base in problem-solving and reasoning, and an advanced scope and sequence, the switch to almost any other program should be a fairly painless one.
So, to make a long story short, all kids are different, and we know one math program will not fit them all. But, we do want to share what we've found with others in the hope that it may be a fit for some of you as well.
Blessings,
Carrie
Math is a subject that has a finite body of information to be learned, and Singapore does this in a clear, systematic way that encourages mental math. IMO, strong mental math is the goal. It is something needed every day, in every walk of life. These are the top things I appreciate about Singapore...
1. it teaches the "why" behind the "how" of math; it doesn't just drill - it teaches how to "think" mathematically
2. it is strong on mental math
3. it teaches pictorially, which helps dc visualize the mathematic operations they are doing
4. it is strong on problem solving
5. it is short, has no prep, and is consistent
6. it has a strong track record of dc testing well on standardized testing
We really like Singapore, but like any math program, it takes a bit to get into it. I think Singapore deserves a year's try. It will seem different at first, but that's because of all of the above points I listed. If you're going to give Singapore a try for a month, you probably won't really get a good read on how it will go long-term. One last thing, I am a firm believer in the "less is more" theory when it comes to math problems (as well as with things like cursive handwriting, etc.). If a child can show you they fully understand the math concept in 10-15 problems, why would I make him do 50 problems and have him start to rush to get through all those problems and start to have the habit of carelessness? Math should not take forever to do. Singapore looks deceivingly simple - it is not. It is more than difficult enough, but it does not overkill a skill. The HOD activities up through Singapore 2B are awesome, and I believe a necessary part to do with Singapore at the younger ages (that should be more hands-on). However, there is a time to give up the hands-on part of math, IMO, and it has been a good time to give it up at 3A. Our dc are completely different learners and both thriving with Singapore. !
I have not found any need to supplement with Singapore. I didn't learn math this way, but I am enjoying learning it now.
I cannot believe how easy math is the Singapore way - the methods they teach all but take away the need for scratch paper use, or lengthy memorization of steps. I have found it is important not to jump in and try to share my "tips". 
They are not helpful, and they confuse the dc. The fact is Singapore often gets to my "tips" eventually anyway - they just teach mental math methods first. 
In Christ,
Julie
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9681&p=70654&hilit= ... ore#p70654:
We have found our dc learn their facts through doing Singapore as it is written. However, if you want to add drill of facts, it is incredibly easy to add as there are a whole host of available drilling facts resources available. Adding the excellent mental math and problem solving skills that Singapore is so strong in is much more difficult to add to a different math program that is weak in these areas. Here are Carrie's comments explaining why HOD chose Singapore math, as I think this is incredibly helpful...
...you are more than welcome to choose your own math curriculum to use with any of our programs (and we do realize that there are many excellent math programs to use out there). However, we have tried many of the big-name, and not so big-name, math programs for at least a year each and found many of them didn't fit our family well for a variety of reasons.
Many of the programs were just too time-consuming in the amount of teacher presentation required. As we added more children to our homeschool, I realized a 30 minute math presentation for one kiddo would quickly turn into 2 hours of math presentation when multiplied times my 4 boys. That would leave precious little time for the many other necessary school subjects.
Some of the programs required too much prep. or planning ahead of time prior to teaching. When I wasn't prepared, my students were wasting time waiting on me. Other programs had way too much drill or too many problems daily for my non-math loving oldest son. So, I found I was tweaking which problems to do daily and eventually the programs hardly resembled the original progam anymore.
In keeping with the Charlotte Mason philosophy for math, I wanted a program with short lessons, some hands-on, almost no prep., in a workbook form (to cut down on time spent copying problems) that emphasized higher-level thinking and reasoning along with computation. I also wanted it to be economical if possible. So, when we began with Singapore we knew we'd found the fit for us.
Where the program lacked hands-on in the early years, I added in lessons to include that. The one problem we have found with Singpaore is that the clean page layout and the few problems on each page makes it easy to assign too much daily, thus complicating what should be a short and sweet program. We compensate for that by including schedules in our guides that follow the original Singpore pacing, completing 2 workbooks in one school year.
Our plans are to phase out the hands-on teacher lessons starting with 3A/3B and move toward the textbook/workbook schedule only at that point. With a strong hands-on background from the previous Singapore years, we're finding the kiddos will be ready for that change.
At this time, we will probably endorse Singapore through 6A and 6B. It gets more teacher-intensive after that point, and we most likely will suggest an alternative prior to continuing on to the New Elementary Math that comes after 6A/6B. Since Singapore has such a solid base in problem-solving and reasoning, and an advanced scope and sequence, the switch to almost any other program should be a fairly painless one.
So, to make a long story short, all kids are different, and we know one math program will not fit them all. But, we do want to share what we've found with others in the hope that it may be a fit for some of you as well.
Blessings,
Carrie
Math is a subject that has a finite body of information to be learned, and Singapore does this in a clear, systematic way that encourages mental math. IMO, strong mental math is the goal. It is something needed every day, in every walk of life. These are the top things I appreciate about Singapore...
1. it teaches the "why" behind the "how" of math; it doesn't just drill - it teaches how to "think" mathematically
2. it is strong on mental math
3. it teaches pictorially, which helps dc visualize the mathematic operations they are doing
4. it is strong on problem solving
5. it is short, has no prep, and is consistent
6. it has a strong track record of dc testing well on standardized testing
We really like Singapore, but like any math program, it takes a bit to get into it. I think Singapore deserves a year's try. It will seem different at first, but that's because of all of the above points I listed. If you're going to give Singapore a try for a month, you probably won't really get a good read on how it will go long-term. One last thing, I am a firm believer in the "less is more" theory when it comes to math problems (as well as with things like cursive handwriting, etc.). If a child can show you they fully understand the math concept in 10-15 problems, why would I make him do 50 problems and have him start to rush to get through all those problems and start to have the habit of carelessness? Math should not take forever to do. Singapore looks deceivingly simple - it is not. It is more than difficult enough, but it does not overkill a skill. The HOD activities up through Singapore 2B are awesome, and I believe a necessary part to do with Singapore at the younger ages (that should be more hands-on). However, there is a time to give up the hands-on part of math, IMO, and it has been a good time to give it up at 3A. Our dc are completely different learners and both thriving with Singapore. !
I have not found any need to supplement with Singapore. I didn't learn math this way, but I am enjoying learning it now.
I cannot believe how easy math is the Singapore way - the methods they teach all but take away the need for scratch paper use, or lengthy memorization of steps. I have found it is important not to jump in and try to share my "tips". They are not helpful, and they confuse the dc. The fact is Singapore often gets to my "tips" eventually anyway - they just teach mental math methods first. In Christ,
Julie
"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."
Colossians 3:17[/color]
Colossians 3:17[/color]
Re: math help
It looks like you found some good information here already - I was going to link you to those same threads. Here are a few more threads that may be helpful reading...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10836
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6698&p=48902#p48902
My reasons for loving Singapore Math that you cut and paste above remain the same, but I have a few more to add to the list, as I now have been using Singapore Math for 7 years, and I now have 3 dc doing Singapore Math, one in Earlybird K, one in 3A, and one in 6A.
- it is not difficult to teach 3 dc Singapore Math in 3 different levels; it is time efficient and easy to do in a round table format
- math takes an appropriate amount of time to keep in check the balance of its place within the bigger picture of our school day; I know moms who are literally teaching multiple levels of math for HOURS on end every day because it is not possible to teach more than 1 child at a time, and the lessons are extremely lengthy - they are so stressed about math each day, and I wish they could enjoy it like I am
- dc transition to giving up the hands-on component of math at Level 3A well
- multiple mental math methods are taught, so dc can choose the method they mesh best with
- my dc have learned their facts later, but know them extremely well then without the use of flashcards
- excellent balance of skills taught within each year, no one year is heavy on one thing (i.e. I remember dc doing only computation within a different math program I used the WHOLE year)
- multiple step math word problems are taught from a young age
- teaching dc with "bars" and "units" makes transitioning into teaching algebra with "letters" easy (Wyatt just did this, he understood it the first day)
- has fewer problems, but they are harder; I'd so rather have fewer problems that are more challenging to take our time and work out and learn so much from, than a ton of problems that are easier and simply just take time because there are so many
- all of my dc enjoy math and have every year - that's really something, as not all of them are naturally "mathy"
I would have your dd take the singapore math placement test at http://www.singaporemath.com. It is free, and it is accurate. Be sure not to help with the test at all, even the reading of the problems, as this will ensure scores are accurate. Singapore is considered advanced, so don't be disheartened if your dd tests in a level that is lower than you thought she would. Wherever she places, start there, as it will be the most solid placement for her. If this does happen, and you feel you need to make up a little time within Singapore, it is easy to do by doing math 5 days a week once dc are in PHFHG on up, as those guides are 4 day a week plans. HTH!
In Christ,
Julie
Here are a few more threads that may be helpful reading...viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10836
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6698&p=48902#p48902
My reasons for loving Singapore Math that you cut and paste above remain the same, but I have a few more to add to the list, as I now have been using Singapore Math for 7 years, and I now have 3 dc doing Singapore Math, one in Earlybird K, one in 3A, and one in 6A.
- it is not difficult to teach 3 dc Singapore Math in 3 different levels; it is time efficient and easy to do in a round table format
- math takes an appropriate amount of time to keep in check the balance of its place within the bigger picture of our school day; I know moms who are literally teaching multiple levels of math for HOURS on end every day because it is not possible to teach more than 1 child at a time, and the lessons are extremely lengthy - they are so stressed about math each day, and I wish they could enjoy it like I am
- dc transition to giving up the hands-on component of math at Level 3A well
- multiple mental math methods are taught, so dc can choose the method they mesh best with
- my dc have learned their facts later, but know them extremely well then without the use of flashcards
- excellent balance of skills taught within each year, no one year is heavy on one thing (i.e. I remember dc doing only computation within a different math program I used the WHOLE year)
- multiple step math word problems are taught from a young age
- teaching dc with "bars" and "units" makes transitioning into teaching algebra with "letters" easy (Wyatt just did this, he understood it the first day)
- has fewer problems, but they are harder; I'd so rather have fewer problems that are more challenging to take our time and work out and learn so much from, than a ton of problems that are easier and simply just take time because there are so many
- all of my dc enjoy math and have every year - that's really something, as not all of them are naturally "mathy"
I would have your dd take the singapore math placement test at http://www.singaporemath.com. It is free, and it is accurate. Be sure not to help with the test at all, even the reading of the problems, as this will ensure scores are accurate. Singapore is considered advanced, so don't be disheartened if your dd tests in a level that is lower than you thought she would. Wherever she places, start there, as it will be the most solid placement for her. If this does happen, and you feel you need to make up a little time within Singapore, it is easy to do by doing math 5 days a week once dc are in PHFHG on up, as those guides are 4 day a week plans. HTH!
In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie
Re: math help
Charlotte Mason wrote, "The chief value of arithmetic, like that of higher mathematics, lies in the training it affords to the reasoning powers."
"In drill and practice, a child is taught a specific skill which is followed by page after page of similar problems in the hope that the child will memorize the facts. An adaptation to the drill and practice technique was introduced into math instruction by John Saxon. It is called Incremental or Developmental Review. What is incremental review? It is a technique of instruction that breaks the whole skill into many bits and pieces or fragments. Each fragment is then taught in isolation from the other parts. The individual fragment is usually repeated over long periods of time. The initial instruction involves many problems of the same kind. The child practices this same skill over and over again for many days. However, the number of similar problesm is reduced as time goes on. Incremental review simply spreads out the drill and practive over many months. The theory base for drill and practice and the incremental review is based on behaviorism by Skinner and Pavlov. The behaviorist believes man 'has no soul, he has no mind; he neither initiates, originates nor creates. .. Man is accepted as a machine and he is treated as a machine.' " (Excerpt from "Why Johnnie Can't Do Math! by David Quine
I believe Singapore is more in line with Charlotte Mason's ideas than Saxon.
We have homeschooled our 5 children for 18 years, but this is our first year with HOD. I love HOD, and this has been our best homeschool year ever.
We used an excellent math program for our entire homeschool journey, and I really thought we would never change. I loved it (still do). However, when we transitioned to HOD, I respected Carrie's rationale for choosing Singapore and decided to give it a try in order to follow Carrie's guides as closely as possible. I am pleased with Singapore, and my children like it as well. The Singapore placement test was very helpful. HTH
Marie
married 23 years
18 dd college
15 dd RTR
12 ds Preparing
10 dd Preparing
7 dd LHFHG
"In drill and practice, a child is taught a specific skill which is followed by page after page of similar problems in the hope that the child will memorize the facts. An adaptation to the drill and practice technique was introduced into math instruction by John Saxon. It is called Incremental or Developmental Review. What is incremental review? It is a technique of instruction that breaks the whole skill into many bits and pieces or fragments. Each fragment is then taught in isolation from the other parts. The individual fragment is usually repeated over long periods of time. The initial instruction involves many problems of the same kind. The child practices this same skill over and over again for many days. However, the number of similar problesm is reduced as time goes on. Incremental review simply spreads out the drill and practive over many months. The theory base for drill and practice and the incremental review is based on behaviorism by Skinner and Pavlov. The behaviorist believes man 'has no soul, he has no mind; he neither initiates, originates nor creates. .. Man is accepted as a machine and he is treated as a machine.' " (Excerpt from "Why Johnnie Can't Do Math! by David Quine
I believe Singapore is more in line with Charlotte Mason's ideas than Saxon.
We have homeschooled our 5 children for 18 years, but this is our first year with HOD. I love HOD, and this has been our best homeschool year ever.
We used an excellent math program for our entire homeschool journey, and I really thought we would never change. I loved it (still do). However, when we transitioned to HOD, I respected Carrie's rationale for choosing Singapore and decided to give it a try in order to follow Carrie's guides as closely as possible. I am pleased with Singapore, and my children like it as well. The Singapore placement test was very helpful. HTH
Marie
married 23 years
18 dd college
15 dd RTR
12 ds Preparing
10 dd Preparing
7 dd LHFHG
Re: math help
Thanks ladies. I read the other threads too. I think I am going to get 3B and 4A and 4B. She took the placement test, but it is hard to say where to start without seeing the books. She needs some help with fractions--mainly the word problems. I may start half way through 3b and go from there. I am not sure about the HIG--it seems there are mixed thoughts. I have used Khan's academy online when in need so I may stick with that. They offer very short free lessons in all areas of math and it helped my kids understand borrowing and equivalent fractions when I couldn't explain it well. For those who may need occasional help with teaching a point--that site may help you. I am excited to try Singapore. Saxon is just too incremental for us at this point. Blessings, Jen
"And whatever you do, whether in word or deed, do it all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him."
Colossians 3:17[/color]
Colossians 3:17[/color]
Re: math help
Just thought I'd pop in with a link to Carrie's comments in regard to the HIG's...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9686
Here are a few other threads I found as well...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4896&p=35879#p35879
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6698&p=48902#p48902
HTH as you ponder what you'd like to do!
In Christ,
Julie
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9686
Here are a few other threads I found as well...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4896&p=35879#p35879
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=6698&p=48902#p48902
HTH as you ponder what you'd like to do!
In Christ,
Julie
Enjoyed LHTH to USII
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie
Currently using USI
Wife to Rich for 28 years
Mother to 3 sons, ages 23, 20, and 16
Sister to Carrie