Really struggling to get everything done

[tbarr12]

We are in our 2nd year using HOD, so I'm not a newbie. I am doing 3 guides concurrently - CTC for 12 yo dd, Preparing for 10 yo ds, and Beyond for 7 yo dd. I don't mean to sound like a rebel here (I'm not!), but in general our days just feel too full and pressured. There are so many boxes to check! Now, I'll admit, we've digressed from the guides in Math and Science - I use Rod and Staff Math with each of them, and we do BJU 6th grade science with 2 other families and have a "co-op" (the latter I will NEVER do again - we really don't enjoy it, but are sticking to our commitment for this year.) It is almost like if anything happens to throw off our day - snow in the morning (the kids want to play in it before it melts), a discipline issue, difficulty understanding anything - everybody (including me) gets really stressed about finishing our work, and we worry that we'll have a REALLY long school day. In general, if those things don't happen, we finish around 2:00, which I'm not complaining about. it's more the pressured feeling that we have during the day because there seems to be so much work!

I really feel bad about coming here and saying anything that could put the curriculum in a negative light, because that's not my intention. I am in the process of making curriculum decisions for next year, and most likely will stick with HOD. I just wondered if anyone ever has felt the way I do, and if anyone has any suggestions. We have a very good schedule for the day, but, as I said, it's very tight, because of the work load.

I am confident in my placements of all 3 kids - I went through an extensive evaluation of that last year, esp. with ds. Both dd's seem to be doing fine but even my oldest daughter, who loves school and loves a challenge, says it's a lot of work sometimes. My son has adjusted, but doesn't love it (sadly).

I've been reading about Charlotte Mason this year, and thought that learning was supposed to be in a more relaxed environment. I wouldn't say that at least my older 2 feel relaxed.

Again, I'm not trying to be ugly - please believe that! I am just being honest, and wondering if anyone has any suggestions. Are there parts of the curricula that are optional that perhaps I could just choose not to do, for instance? Another thought would be to do Preparing 1/2 pace with ds, but I wouldn't want to do that just to make the schedule lighter! What would be some considerations for doing that? Any input is appreciated. Thanks so much.

[tbarr12]

Oh, I need to add, my title isn't exactly accurate. We always get everything done, it's just that it feels a little overwhelming every day doing it. Sorry!

[Kims]

It overwhelmed me to just read about your day. Do you think the two outside things add to your pressure? I know for me it would. I would feel extremely pressured. In fact I do a bible study on Tuesday, just started two weeks ago, I did not even go this week because I just felt so pressured. We were out of the house every day last week and I just couldn't do it again.

Now I am only doing one really and just started LHTH with my 4yo so I can not give you good advice but I do know that when I feel this way, and it's easy for me to feel this way, that I need to examine my outside activities. When it gets like that it's almost so much that working in a shower stresses me.

Sorry I have no good advice but I do want you to know I read.

[LynnH]

First I will say that there are days when it feels more stressful to get everything done. I have figured out that those are the days that math takes longer. We also use a different math and I have to say that how math goes is often how the day goes. Yesterday math took him an hour and it seemed like then he was stressed the rest of the day. Today however math took him 25 minutes and the day flew by with no issues. If we were not using HOD science I also think that would make a difference. We use to do Apologia Science in co-op and so had added reading in our day and that made our day go long (we were doing that in addition to HOD science though).

As far as going 1/2 speed with Preparing. How does he do with all the independent work? Do you end up helping him? Does he take significantly longer with the boxes than he should. If any of these are the case then I would probably move him to half speed.

For your DD I do think that RTR seems to go faster than CTC. So it might seem different for her next year. Does she do the extensions? If so I would cut those out. Also how many storytimes do you do? Can you condense those or maybe you already do this.

I really don't have any great advice for you. I will say my friend uses strictly textbooks to school her 3 kids and her ds is the same age as mine and his day is way longer than my ds's day. I just think when you get up to the junior high to high school years the days just get fuller and go longer no matter what you use for curriculum.

[tbarr12]

Lynnh - No, I don't have to help my son significantly with any of the independent work. He does take longer than dd, but he has more cursive copywork than she does, and he is a very slow writer. Writing is just plain tiring for him. He's probably a little slower reader, too. So that's helpful for me to see that I probably DON'T need to slow him down. Yes, I have both kids do extensions, with the corresponding narration or writing assignments suggested at the beginning. I have thought about cutting those out. I do one storytime with my youngest daughter, and have the oldest 2 read theirs on their own. But sometimes I wonder if we could do without those, too. The things I'm tempted to cut out are: extensions, History project, and storytime. But I'm such a "by the book" person - if someone tells me I have to do something, I have a hard time leaving it out! I dont' want them to miss out on anything!

Thanks for the help.

[LynnH]

I would definitely start by cutting out extensions for both. My ds did Preparing at 10, CTC at 11 and RTR at 12 and has never done extensions and I feel it is plenty of work. I am not just basing that on guess work either, my dd went through ps up to 10th grade and was in advanced everything and my ds is getting as much if not more than she did all areas.

The history project is my ds's favorite part of the week. He uses that to break up the reading. He has trouble writing also and he uses the history project box to break up the writing activities. I think you need to have some learning that is more hands on and the history project does that. Also I can't tell you all the cooking skills that my ds has learned from that box. I feel like he is getting a home ec class. All that to say I really wouldn't cut that box.

As far as storytime I do feel it really fills out the history. There are many things he didn't quite get until he read about them in the storytime box. It just made it more real.

I would imagine if you just cut out extensions it would make a big difference. That is a lot of extra work. For your ds you say it takes him a long time to write. Can he type any of it? My ds has dysgraphia so I have always let him type certain things such as his written narration, answers to science questions etc. I had him only do one copywork passage a day in Preparing also. If there was more than that he didn't do it or he might type it if it was a poem he was memorizing.

[blessedmomof4]

I second the idea of cutting extensions, and allowing ds to type some of his work. My older dd does this sometimes for written narrations on a word document formatted to an appopriate size and then pastes it in her student notebook. It would also be nice if you chose one storytime, probably the one from Preparing, and read that to all the children perhaps during lunch, instead of having them do all that storytime reading on their own. I think these small changes may make a world of difference for everybody. I wouldn't cut the history projects-they really help "cement" learning, and are so fun, too

[my3sons]

First, I am sorry you are feeling this way! Second, I really do think this can be fixed with a few changes. LynnH has given excellent thoughts here already, and so has KimS. I agree with everything they've advised. I too would first drop the extensions and their follow-ups. That alone will make a big difference. I would also suggest setting the timer for 30 minutes of math and stop wherever you are when it rings. For your ds in PHFHG, I would take back reading the Storytime box. At this age, you want to read it to him, and it will honestly go more quickly anyway, especially as you'd mentioned he was a slower reader. For the writing for your 10 yo, I'd help out by starting him off a bit - maybe just writing one of the sentences for him, for example. Last (and this is just my thought on the matter which you can definitely take or leave ), I would kindly let the families know that you are going to finish out the year doing your own science. I think this is part of why we homeschool, to be able to make decisions such as this, and if they are good friends, they'll understand. On a personal note - we have found an earlier start time helps us out. If that goes against your nature (i.e. you are a night owl ), then it's best just to keep things as they are and know you'll have a later end time. My 2 older dc get up early to do their science and love that time alone. If your older dc are morning people, they may enjoy that too. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

P.S. I was typing the same time as Lourdes.

[tbarr12]

Julie (and everyone else) - I have skimmed your replies, and will go over them in more detail. they are all very helpful, and I appreciate the advice! One easy one to reply to - we already DO start early! I wake the kids up at 7am, and they are required to eat and have chores done and begin working on their independent work by 8am. So that's one area where I don't think I can make any improvements! I think dropping the extensions will help, and I have no doubt they'll still receive a full education with all the rest. I'll look back over everything else and mull it over and see what else I think i can improve. thanks again so much, and any other ideas are appreciated!

[MomtoJGJE]

Another thing you could do, if it still seems to be a struggle after you cut out extensions, would be to do half speed with everyone just for a little while, until they feel confident in a shorter school day. Then I would start with the oldest adding back in full days. Then the middle, then the youngest. So like, for two weeks go half speed with everyone (one unit). Then after that two weeks do another two weeks where your oldest does full speed and your other two still do half speed. Then the next two weeks have the two olders do full speed and the youngest still half speed. And at 7 I'd be fine continuing half speed for even longer unless she feels she needs to go faster.

FWIW, I'm going half speed with my oldest in Preparing just because it makes our days go better. She can do the work, but *I* like it better. So we are doing Preparing 5 days a week, 4 half days and one full day each week. I'm also doing half speed with my #3 in LHFHG just because I want to spread her and my #2 out some in guides to not go back to back. She could easily go full speed. So to me it's ok to pull them back to half speed if it will make the day go better and everyone will be happier with less struggles. You don't want learning to be a struggle. If it's a struggle and if they don't like it, they will probably learn less.

[Carrie]

Tracey,

The ladies have done a terrific job of talking through possibilities with you, so I'll just pop-in and share a few things that stood out to me when reading your post.

First off, the ladies are so right that we never intend for a 10 year old in Preparing (unless that child is a 5th grader) to be doing the Extensions. We are fully intending for ages 8-10 in Preparing to be doing the Deluxe Package books (which are significantly shorter... as are the assignments). Even if your 10 year old is a terrific reader, just learning to read and follow the written directions in the "Independent History Box" along with the Deluxe Package books is plenty. I am sincerely hoping you haven't been having your poor 10 year old doing the Extension readings and the follow-ups too that are intended for ages 11-12. This would be way too much and not what we intend. So, I agree that it's wise to drop the extensions for that child and do the remaining Deluxe Package books in its place.

Next, if your oldest is 12 and having long days, you could shift to having that child omit the extensions or simply read them at bedtime. The extensions are not meant to overwhelm but rather to enhance or extend for a child who is older and needs more. Not all children will need more.

Another thing to really bear in mind is that while you are welcome to choose a different math, language arts, science, etc. than what we schedule in the guide, a different selection can really affect your overall day. In the case of the two programs tht you've shared you're using, Rod and Staff math and BJU science, this is definitely true! Rod and Staff math has very lengthy assignments with many problems to complete each day. It will definitely add more time to your day than doing Singapore math. This is fine, but you will have to know that your day will go longer than expected this way. BJU science is very intensive and very time-consuming as well. It is one of the most rigorous of the science programs out there and will definitely add time to your day beyond the time we are allowing for science daily. Again this is fine, but you will need to realize the extra time it adds to your day. These two subjects alone will add at least 20-30 min. each (or 45 min. to 1 hour) for each kiddo doing them. So, this is going to affect how long your day goes.

Last, I would make sure you pull back to having your Preparing child only doing the boxes marked "I" on his own, making sure you are there for all of the "T" and "S" boxes. While you may already be doing this, I mention it because having a child do boxes that we are not expecting him to do on his own will definitely add time to his day and will leave him without the training he'll need as he heads into CTC next year. So, I mention this one just as a checkpoint of a possible concern.

I'll share in closing that we normally don't advocate for families to be running guides like Preparing and CTC at the same time, as they'll be pretty intensive for you as the teacher. I'm not saying that you are doing it wrong in any way by having a child in Preparing and one in CTC, I'm just saying that we prefer not to have you run back-to-back guides unless absolutely necessary! Usually if you have children in back-to-back guides, there is a pretty good possibility they could have been combined within the younger guide for at least the history side of the guide. This isn't always the case, but often is. So, you could always entertain a combination of the older two in Preparing Hearts, with the older one doing Extensions and the 3R's and science from CTC, and the younger doing Preparing as written with the Deluxe packages instead of the Extensions.

Blessings,
Carrie

[tbarr12]

Carrie - I really appreciate your reply. However, a couple things you said are "news" to me. I didn't realize Extensions in preparing were not for 10 year olds. that is such a relief - I will immediately stop having him do those. I also did not realize you don't advocate having parents do back-to-back CTC and Preparing. Well, my dd did Preparing last year, and ds is in Preparing now. So what would you suggest that I do at this point, and next year, esp. as dd is in week 20 of CTC!!! How do I fix this at this point?

I'm not really sure where I would have found these things out to begin with. Last year I went through EXTENSIVE issues in placing the kids, and was on these boards getting advice, and somehow I missed this and no one ever mentioned it. So, given my situation, with dd 12 in CTC, ds 10 in Preparing, and dd 7 in Beyond, what would you suggest I do? I would LOVE to be only doing 2 guides at once - I can't imagine what a relief that would be for me, but don't know how I could do that at this point.

Also, I do realize that when you change the program in any way, it adds time. I am pretty committed to R&S Math - oldest dd has flourished under it, but am still evaluating it for ds. Could I really switch to Singapore this late in the game? BJU Science is another matter. I am still considering whether to finish out the year with it, but in the future will NOT stray from what you've planned for the guides.

I'd really appreciate your input on the above questions. Thank you.

[tbarr12]

P.S. to Carrie - I really like HOD and want to make it work, so your suggestions have given me hope that it might not be so overwhelming. I'll anxiously be awaiting for more input! Thanks!

[Tidbits of Learning]

and we do BJU 6th grade science with 2 other families and have a "co-op" (the latter I will NEVER do again - we really don't enjoy it, but are sticking to our commitment for this year.)

Having just went through the stress of deciding to break our commitment to a rather large co-op, I would tell you to not feel tied to that commitment if it doesn't work for your family. If you aren't enjoying it and your family is not benefiting from it, then why cause "your" homeschool to be disrupted. I really stressed about whether to leave our co-op mid-year and wondered what my friends at the co-op would think of my leaving and my reasons for leaving, but they have been great and it was wonderful to get the feelings off my chest instead of us enduring the rest of the year b/c of a misguided commitment.

[Carrie]

Tracey,

I was so troubled by your post about not receiving accurate advice from the boards that I went back through the board searching by your name in the Advanced Search to refresh my memory about your placement concerns. Just to recap for those of us who are trying to advise you in your current situation, it appears that in the beginning your plan was to combine both of your older two kiddos in CTC (aged 9 and 11). Once you got underway though, since your son was only 9 and CTC was tough for both kiddos, you dropped them both back to Preparing. In both the CTC and Preparing scenarios your kiddos were combined.

When Preparing seemed too tough for your son, the ladies advised dropping both kiddos back to half-speed in Preparing for awhile to allow your son to grow into the guide and stay with your daughter. So, all along the way the advice was to try to combine your two kiddos. At some point shortly thereafter, you moved your son down to Bigger when he wasn't succeeding well in Preparing. This would be the point at which your two kiddos first parted ways and began being placed in two back-to-back guides. At that point, from all that you shared on the board, that truly seemed to be your desire. To pull your daughter back to Bigger along with your son did not seem to be the fit your were seeking after all of the moving down already. So, it makes sense to me now how you ended up in back-to-back guides.

Part of the issue in the advising area came from those of us on the board trying to figure out along with you where your son truly fit. The difference in skills between CTC, where he started, and Bigger, where he finally ended up, is huge. It can be a task to figure out where a child fits best when looking at the skills. So, I can understand it taking time to decide where he belongs. However, you can imagine that those of us on the board who are trying to give advice would have difficulty in helping when we're still trying to piece together from what you've shared where your children are at skill-wise.

At this point, it sounds like your daughter is doing well in CTC and should just continue going forward. As far as your son goes, if the writing is too much for him, you could consider going half-speed with him for awhile to allow him to grow into the skills. You'll want to think ahead to CTC a bit in pondering the pace at which your son should go in Preparing to make sure he can handle what is coming in CTC. Be sure to do the 'T' an 'S' boxes with him in Preparing, as he'll need that training for CTC.

You could also consider slowing your Beyond child down too if needed to allow a bit more wiggle room in your schedule. I would definitely work to get your math time down to 30 min. or so each day. If you aren't enjoying the BJU science, then I would consider a shift away from it as Tidbitsoflearning wisely advised.

I noticed in earlier posts you had also mentioned using All About Spelling, which is fine. But if you are still choosing to use that for spelling, this will also add time to your day. It is possible that it is your non-HOD related extras that are adding so much time to your day. At the very least they are making a difference in how long your day runs.

At this point, combining your older two doesn't sound like it will work well. Since your son has already been through all of Bigger, then it wouldn't be wise to move him back to combine him with the younger child in Beyond either. It is true that sometimes it is better to have kiddos in separate programs. That is definitely true at our house. The good news is that as your kiddos get older, it won't really matter that they are in back-to-back programs as the teacher time decreases in the upper guides. So, take heart that this year will be the most difficult. I do think that by stopping the extensions for both kiddos, switching your child in Preparing to doing the Deluxe package books instead, stopping the BJU science at your earliest convenience, and cutting your math time back each day will make a huge difference in your daily schedule.

After those changes, you could also consider dropping your Preparing child or Beyond child, or both, back to half speed for a time. You will definitely want your Preparing child to be doing the Independent History Box (with deluxe package books) and the science box on his own in preparation for CTC. I should clarify that if your child is a 5th grader this year, then it would make more sense as to why he was doing the Extension Package. I guess I am assuming he is a 4th grader but in looking back I do not see that you shared that information. So, if my assumption is incorrect I apologize for the confusion. Either way, at this point, from what you've shared I'd switch him to the Deluxe package books, as they'll be a better fit no matter his age.

In the catalog and on the website it does give the following description for the Deluxe Package for Preparing:
SELF-STUDY DELUXE HISTORY PACKAGE: FOR THE NEWLY INDEPENDENT READER $120.72 $101.85(Save $18.87) [Add to Cart]
Adding this package to the Economy Package provides daily independent reading assignments for your 3rd and 4th grade students in the area of history. Books correspond with the time period to enhance your child's study of history. The reading material is meant to be easy and short enough for the students to complete on their own. If you have a very advanced reader, you may want to use the Extension Package instead.

And the following description for the Extension Package:
SELF-STUDY EXTENSION PACKAGE FOR OLDER STUDENTS $90.82 $77.20 (Save $13.62) [Add to Cart]
Adding this optional package to the Economy Package extends the area of history to include more advanced, independent reading material. This allows your 5th and 6th grade students to learn along with your younger students.

Blessings,
Carrie