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Hi, Ladies!

I have a question about copywork:

My 10 year old son still misses some spelling and punctuation when he does his copywork. If he is copying a couple of verses, he might make a mistake on the spelling of two or maybe three words. He is hit or miss with punctuation. (He really does not enjoy copywork, and would prefer to write something original.) If he's applying himself, his writing can be pretty neat and legible, but if he's not motivated to do a good job it's pretty sloppy.

Any pointers for helping him with accuracy? When he makes a mistake, how should I proceed? Correct it and have him correct the word? Require him to find the errors? Re-do the passage? What level of neatness in the handwriting should I require? I can post an example of his writing, if that would help.

Any suggestions for me? How do you handle copywork in your homeschool?

Thank you!!!

Copywork is so important for many reasons, so this is an important observation of yours in regard to your ds. May I ask what kind of paper he is copying his copywork? Is it blank, handwriting paper, notebook paper? The type of paper has made a difference in how well copywork goes with our sons based on their stage of writing. Also, is he copying in print or cursive, and which does he prefer?

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote:Copywork is so important for many reasons, so this is an important observation of yours in regard to your ds. May I ask what kind of paper he is copying his copywork? Is it blank, handwriting paper, notebook paper? The type of paper has made a difference in how well copywork goes with our sons based on their stage of writing. Also, is he copying in print or cursive, and which does he prefer?

In Christ,
Julie

Hi, Julie!

I've uploaded some photos of his copywork so you can see what I'm talking about. I've written descriptions under each photo, so you know what you're seeing:

https://picasaweb.google.com/vondermusi ... ruHRh8vIIA#

To answer your questions, he is using paper that I have made for each type of copywork he does. (He does his Memory Verses on index cards, and has the same trouble with those.) He is copying in print, and prefers that. He's learned all the lowercase cursive letters and is currently working on the capitals. He's not looking forward to copywork in cursive!

I know that copywork is not easy for him, but I know that the end product varies greatly depending on the level of diligence he applies to the task. Here's an example. His numbers in math tend to be almost illegible. My husband told him that if he did not write the numbers neatly that the entire page would have to be re-done. Suddenly his numbers are VERY easy to read!

What level of neatness and accuracy should be required? Also, when he copies verses, I usually have him copy from his Bible, though he would much prefer to copy from my Kindle, or from an online Bible. Would it be okay for him to copy from the Kindle or laptop?

Thank you for helping me!

***Edited to add: If you'd like me to post pictures that are close-ups of just his writing as opposed to the whole notebooking pages, just let me know!

Thanks so much for taking the time to share the pictures of your ds's copywork - that is so helpful! Handwriting is often not a boy's favorite thing, but you are wise to help him continue developing this skill. I have a few ideas you can try, but first off - your ds's handwriting is actually quite neat. His tall letters are tall, his spacing between words is large enough, and his writing is quite steady and neat. So, hooray for those things!

When first learning to do copywork, dc often make mistakes. For this reason, I'd switch to having him use a pencil, as mistakes can be easily erased. The final product of copywork is to be 'perfect', and crossed out words in pen just remind dc of their errors. I know many dc prefer using pens, but for copywork especially, pencils are better as the final product will look neater and the incorrect spellings or grammatical errors will be "erased" from dc's memories. It all works together to help dc recognize what "looks right", as Charlotte Mason would say. You may want to try using blank paper for notebooking, as dc can form their letters the size that feels best to them for their stage of writing. One of my sons wanted lines to help him write straighter, so I let him use a ruler to draw the lines with the spacing he desired. Eventually, he wrote straightly without the lines. If you give blank paper a try and ds still prefers the lines already be provided, you can always go back to that too.

When my dc began copywork, they made errors too. A few things helped. First, sectioning off the Bible portion (or whatever resource is being copied from) with sticky notes (one on top and one on bottom of the paragraph to be copied), helped them see clearly the portion to be copied. I think I'd try to have ds still copy from his own Bible, as it will have him being responsible for both the looking up of the verses in his Bible himself while also using his own Bible to copy verses from. I just think it's a personal bonding with one's Bible, and also it makes it more natural for dc to use their own Bibles to look up and copy favorite verses from on their own someday. Second, sitting near them and having them check word by word, punctuation mark by punctuation mark, one sentence at a time, helped them discover errors. I showed them how to put one finger under the word in the resource, and one finger under the matching word in their copywork, to check if they matched exactly. They could not go on to the second sentence until the first was right. They were responsible for finding the errors, but I sat near them and helped as needed. If they still missed an error this way, I'd say, "There's still one word misspelled. Let's see if you can find it!" Or, "There's still a missing comma. Can you find where it should be?"

Eventually, they do the copywork independently, and then they may rarely need a reminder to check it over for a misspelled word or missing punctuation mark. You will be amazed at how much your ds grows in this skill this year! Soon, this will be a more independent skill, but for now, I'd look at this time as a time to train him to check for accuracy using the correct model provided in the resource. He will get better and better at it, and it will give him the beginning skills of learning to proofread his own writing for accuracy. He's doing a lot right, so just partner with him on this, and it will keep on improving! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote:Thanks so much for taking the time to share the pictures of your ds's copywork - that is so helpful! Handwriting is often not a boy's favorite thing, but you are wise to help him continue developing this skill. I have a few ideas you can try, but first off - your ds's handwriting is actually quite neat. His tall letters are tall, his spacing between words is large enough, and his writing is quite steady and neat. So, hooray for those things!

When first learning to do copywork, dc often make mistakes. For this reason, I'd switch to having him use a pencil, as mistakes can be easily erased. The final product of copywork is to be 'perfect', and crossed out words in pen just remind dc of their errors. I know many dc prefer using pens, but for copywork especially, pencils are better as the final product will look neater and the incorrect spellings or grammatical errors will be "erased" from dc's memories. It all works together to help dc recognize what "looks right", as Charlotte Mason would say. You may want to try using blank paper for notebooking, as dc can form their letters the size that feels best to them for their stage of writing. One of my sons wanted lines to help him write straighter, so I let him use a ruler to draw the lines with the spacing he desired. Eventually, he wrote straightly without the lines. If you give blank paper a try and ds still prefers the lines already be provided, you can always go back to that too.

When my dc began copywork, they made errors too. A few things helped. First, sectioning off the Bible portion (or whatever resource is being copied from) with sticky notes (one on top and one on bottom of the paragraph to be copied), helped them see clearly the portion to be copied. I think I'd try to have ds still copy from his own Bible, as it will have him being responsible for both the looking up of the verses in his Bible himself while also using his own Bible to copy verses from. I just think it's a personal bonding with one's Bible, and also it makes it more natural for dc to use their own Bibles to look up and copy favorite verses from on their own someday. Second, sitting near them and having them check word by word, punctuation mark by punctuation mark, one sentence at a time, helped them discover errors. I showed them how to put one finger under the word in the resource, and one finger under the matching word in their copywork, to check if they matched exactly. They could not go on to the second sentence until the first was right. They were responsible for finding the errors, but I sat near them and helped as needed. If they still missed an error this way, I'd say, "There's still one word misspelled. Let's see if you can find it!" Or, "There's still a missing comma. Can you find where it should be?"

Eventually, they do the copywork independently, and then they may rarely need a reminder to check it over for a misspelled word or missing punctuation mark. You will be amazed at how much your ds grows in this skill this year! Soon, this will be a more independent skill, but for now, I'd look at this time as a time to train him to check for accuracy using the correct model provided in the resource. He will get better and better at it, and it will give him the beginning skills of learning to proofread his own writing for accuracy. He's doing a lot right, so just partner with him on this, and it will keep on improving! HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Julie, I can't begin to express how encouraging your reply is to me. Thank you so much for taking the time to give me such a helpful and well thought out answer!

I was very surprised when you said that my son's handwriting is looking neat to you. That's particularly encouraging since he really struggled in the beginning and has made good progress.

I think I had forgotten that the final product of copywork should be exact in spelling, punctuation, etc. Well, I guess I knew that, but wasn't sure how to go about requiring it. I can see how using pencil will make it so the end result will look much better, although I know my son will be disappointed to have to go back to pencil.

I will sit with him during copywork for the next few weeks and help him as you described above. Thanks for the tip!!!

Oh, I will try letting him do his notebooking pages on blank paper. I thought I would be making it easier for him by giving him lines, but I see that it doesn't give him freedom to make his words whatever size he feels most comfortable with.

Two follow-up questions for you:
1. So am I understanding you correctly that all copywork needs to be corrected until it is 100% correct in spelling, capitalization, and punctuation? Should I require him to fix all such errors in R&S too?
2. Should he really be doing all his schoolwork in pencil, including R&S?

Thanks so much, Julie! You are a blessing to me!

Thank you for this post, and Julie for your thoughtful answer! This is very helpful to me too, as I have a DD who is the same way (almost 7 instead of 10, I do cut her a little slack sometimes, but overall I want her to do her best, which it is obvious to me she is often not doing). Her math workbook is nearly illegible! She writes numbers backwards, they are nearly impossible to read, I often have her go back and rewrite the numbers just so I can read them. I like the idea that if you can't read them they all have to be redone... good idea!

I guess what is frustrating about it is that she obviously doesn't see a value in nice, neat handwriting. I am trying to figure out how to motivate her a little more in this area. I do praise her work, when it does look nice, and have her read her copywork to her dad at the end of the week.

MelInKansas wrote:Thank you for this post, and Julie for your thoughtful answer! This is very helpful to me too, as I have a DD who is the same way (almost 7 instead of 10, I do cut her a little slack sometimes, but overall I want her to do her best, which it is obvious to me she is often not doing). Her math workbook is nearly illegible! She writes numbers backwards, they are nearly impossible to read, I often have her go back and rewrite the numbers just so I can read them. I like the idea that if you can't read them they all have to be redone... good idea!

I guess what is frustrating about it is that she obviously doesn't see a value in nice, neat handwriting. I am trying to figure out how to motivate her a little more in this area. I do praise her work, when it does look nice, and have her read her copywork to her dad at the end of the week.

Hi, Melissa!

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has a child who doesn't love copywork! I did require my son to use pencil yesterday, and to go back and check each word ... and he did much better! I'll plan on sitting with him for a while, then I bet he'll be fine to be on his own with it again.

Have you done "A Reason for Handwriting Level A" yet? There is a special verse page that the child writes on and colors once a week, and then can display or give away. Maybe that could motivate her?

HTH!

I'm so glad something I shared may help!

Heart_Mom wrote:...
Two follow-up questions for you:
1. So am I understanding you correctly that all copywork needs to be corrected until it is 100% correct in spelling, capitalization, and punctuation? Should I require him to fix all such errors in R&S too?
2. Should he really be doing all his schoolwork in pencil, including R&S?

Thanks so much, Julie! You are a blessing to me!

Good questions! Yes to all of #1. In answer to #2, that is a personal preference. I still have Wyatt writing everything in pencil, and he's doing RevtoRev. He still makes errors, and pencil allows him to fix them without the final product showcasing the errors. However, once dc show they are doing careful work and are doing something like copywork, I think pen would probably be fine. But, this is just my opinion, and not an HOD or a CM staple. You are a blessing to me too - thank you so much!

In Christ,
Julie

my3sons wrote:I'm so glad something I shared may help!

Heart_Mom wrote:...
Two follow-up questions for you:
1. So am I understanding you correctly that all copywork needs to be corrected until it is 100% correct in spelling, capitalization, and punctuation? Should I require him to fix all such errors in R&S too?
2. Should he really be doing all his schoolwork in pencil, including R&S?

Thanks so much, Julie! You are a blessing to me!

Good questions! Yes to all of #1. In answer to #2, that is a personal preference. I still have Wyatt writing everything in pencil, and he's doing RevtoRev. He still makes errors, and pencil allows him to fix them without the final product showcasing the errors. However, once dc show they are doing careful work and are doing something like copywork, I think pen would probably be fine. But, this is just my opinion, and not an HOD or a CM staple. You are a blessing to me too - thank you so much!

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you, Julie! We will go to pencil in everything for now ... and I will require that the final products be without errors.

Merry Christmas!!!