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I am still thinking about whether Beyond or Bigger would be better for my oldest ds8/2nd grade. The more threads I read on placement with HOD the more I realize how important placing him correctly really is. The more I also realize where he really is at and where he is at after home schooling for pre-K, K, and 1st grade. His skills, with our former program, are all over the place. The more I read the more I realize how important this decision really is, and with his skills being all over the place it is making placement difficult. I really am seeing what we have been looking for in a program, and I want to have a successful start with HOD with my 4 young children (8,6,4,2).

So I am looking at the placement chart again. I have it here in front of me.

AGE: Beyond, Bigger, Preparing (He won't turn 9 until next summer, so he will be the age for Beyond for the next 9 months).
READING: Independent Reader (Beyond, Bigger, Preparing)
WRITING: Beyond
GRAMMAR: Beyond (I started R&S English 2 and All About Spelling Level 1 with him 2 weeks ago and he is doing great, but he has not had the skills or knowledge built into Beyond. He has not had any English or parts of speech or grammar or spelling at all until 2 weeks ago! He also has been doing R&S orally since he is only just beginning to be able to handwrite a sentence or two.)
MATH: He is 1/2 way through Singapore 2A

O.K. wonderful ladies what do you think. What would you do in this situation? The more I read the more I realize what has been lacking in his education until now, which is good. It makes it difficult though for me to place him.

Thank you!

Have you looked at the week of sample plans? What did you think of based on those?

With what you've typed out, and with my little experience with HOD (we used Beyond last year and have completed 9 weeks of Bigger), I would go with Beyond, especially for the handwriting aspect. IMHO, there's quite a bit of difference in the handwriting requirements between Beyond and Bigger. You could definitely add DITHOR since he's an independent reader. HTH!

Ok... Here's my idea. With the ages of your kids and what you said his abilities are... I'd go with Bigger.

As far as grammar, you said you just started R&S2... that's where Bigger starts.. as well as Singapore 2A. So he'd be right on track with those.

Reading, you could either do Emerging Readers or DITHOR, depending on where he stood with reading/comprehension. I'd probably lean toward at least starting in the middle of ERs just to give him the benefit of the comprehension and practice before starting DITHOR, plus it's less writing.

Spelling, the Bigger guide has spelling list as well as dictation depending on what level he is on and which you'd prefer to do.

Writing is a biggie though... you'd probably have to start out slowly and gradually increase the amount of writing. If you did Emerging Readers instead of DITHOR at first that would take out some of the writing... or you could have him dictate the answers at first in DITHOR, then add in him dictating, but copying what you wrote, and then proceed to him writing it himself. Vocabulary you could start out with 1 word and then move up to more. Do copywork to his ability... maybe not have him do it on excessive writing days, like notebooking days where there is a lot of writing.

But based on what you said, I think I'd lean toward Bigger.

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I'll also agree with what John'smom said... How's that for confusing you. If you chose to do Beyond, you could add in DITHOR, but since you'd also be doing the math and English from Bigger, as well as at least the spelling list that's in Bigger, etc. that is why I suggested just going ahead with Bigger.

John'smom wrote:Have you looked at the week of sample plans? What did you think of based on those?
I did look at those. It is a bit hard to tell. First impressions would be that Beyond looked more active & fun which he would like. Beyond looked like less writing, which is more where he is at. The amount of writing in Bigger on the week 1 lesson plan would be a big jump for him. The math in Beyond would be very basic for him, but I could continue with 2A. The language arts box for Beyond is information he has never had or even seen before. Geography he knows for both programs for week 1, but that doesn't mean that he does for week 20 for either program! Writing has been an issue in home schooling for him, while reading & math came very easily. He is only just beginning to learn to like to write, and his hand writing this fall is looking great for the first time. He is in Book B of Italic, and for the first time this fall is able to do a page without any complaint or resistance.


With what you've typed out, and with my little experience with HOD (we used Beyond last year and have completed 9 weeks of Bigger), I would go with Beyond, especially for the handwriting aspect. IMHO, there's quite a bit of difference in the handwriting requirements between Beyond and Bigger. You could definitely add DITHOR since he's an independent reader. HTH!

From everything I have read I would have him do DITHOR with either program. It looks wonderful, and he loves to read.

LovingJesus - Your ds is so blessed to have a mom trying to decide on the very best placement for him. I want to thank you for sharing so succinctly about your ds - it really helps. Here is a synopsis of the amount of writing in Bigger Hearts (this is a portion of Kathleen's post)...

Bible - Once per week copy the memory verse
History - Timeline entries once per week (name, dates, and small picture)
Once per week notebooking page that may be a map drawing, list of facts about a person or event, pictures to go with it...
1-3 Vocabulary cards per week (definition, sentence using word, and illustration on the back)
Science - Once per week notebooking page including Bible verse and a labeled drawing
Once per week experiment page (Parent writes question on it, child records a guess, draws the procedure, and writes a conclusion)
Dictation - Study and write short passage 3 times a week (2 sentences)
DITHOR - 2 (?) student pages per week (The teacher guide actually reccommends writing these for your child if writing is an issue starting out.)
Cheerful Cursive - if you're opting to do that (The lessons are very short! I have my child write the words once, even though it says twice on some of the pages, as long as it's GOOD writing.)
R&S2 - Usually about 5 sentences a day (on a white board)
Poetry - OPTIONAL to copy from the poem of the week. We started out without it, and have added in copying 2 lines 4 days a week.

These are spread throughout the week in the plans so that there's not too much on any one day. Cursive and R&S are daily, but the "big" ones are split up.
Day 2 - Science notebooking
Day 3 - vocabulary and science experiment page
Day 4 - Bible verse
Day 5 - History timeline entry and notebooking

Much of the learning in Bigger Hearts requires writing, and I think that it may just not be worth the battle right now to do this with your ds. "Beyond Little Hearts" is a wonderful program as well. HOD is so flexible that you can meet your ds's advanced reading abilities beautifully by doing DITHOR 2/3 with him. You can write his answers in his Student Book first for him as he dictates them to you - we did this with one of our sons whose reading ability surpassed his writing ability at the start of DITHOR. We gradually moved to having him copy one of his answers from a markerboard, and I wrote the rest. Then, he did half. Then, all. This worked very well. Likewise, you can keep having him do R & S English 2 orally, and gradually move to him writing 1 answer, then 2, then 3. By the end of the year, if he could be writing 3 answers successfully, and doing a portion of his DITHOR writing, this would be wonderful. Likewise, he can begin writing 1 word for the poetry each day, doing 5 words by the end of the week. He can eventually work up to 2 words a day, etc., so that by the end of Beyond he is copying a stanza or more by the end of the week. Baby steps are very successful when it comes to writing progression. You can photocopy the poem for him if you want cutting off the part he wrote and putting his written portion there to have an entire poem for him each week. This helps dc see their portion was important, and a part of something bigger. For math, 2A Singapore would be great to continue with, and you can use the Bigger Heart's hands-on math plans too. So, in a nutshell, your ds would be doing "Beyond Little Hearts" with "Bigger Hearts..." reading, grammar, and math. I'd have him do Spelling List 1 in Beyond as well.

I think this would be a great plan for not only now, but for years to come. It keeps ds challenged in his strength areas, and not overly stressed out in his areas he is still growing in. If you started with Bigger Hearts now, I think you'd be setting him up for frustration within his written work, as the writing only gets harder from year to year. You can see what I am describing at this link...
Amount of writing in Bigger vs. PHFHG:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3602

School doesn't have to be that hard to be academically strong. One of the beauties of homeschooling is we are able to meet our dc's needs in every subject area, and move them along. Ds is still in the target age range of Beyond; there are 9 yo's doing Beyond very happily as well. I think the combination of Beyond as a core guide and Bigger's as ds's 3R's would be just right for your ds - AND, it will have your homeschooling with him starting off with joy for the both of you! And joy in what we are learning is not to be underrated. This is going to be your ds's impression of homeschooling with HOD. You want him to think "I like this! I can do this! I am good at this!". I think this combo will do that for him, but that is just my opinion. HTH!

In Christ,
Julie

Thank you Julie! Thank you for taking the time to type out such a thorough reply that was very helpful. I completely understand why on this thread, and the other one I started, moms were suggesting Bigger. In many ways it makes sense. I was really leaning toward Bigger, but I kept having this nagging sense that Beyond would make both of us happier now & in the long run.

The writing in Bigger, from your description, would be a big jump for him. It is far more than he has been required to do. I just read the description under 'Complete' for Beyond for the basics. The only things on it that he has done are copy work, narration, work on Godly character, & math. The rest would be entirely new to him & Godly character is something that is on-going needed work. I was also looking more at the information on Beyond and realized that he doesn't have any of the grammar, LA, or spelling of Beyond! It also has much more American History than he had in ADV. So he could do it to gain some more History, and while continuing with R&S also gain the LA & spelling & basic grammar that he never learned that is in Beyond. From everything I read on this board it seems to be very important to have him complete skills of one program that will be built into the next program and I don't want to be trying to fill in for skills with a harder program. HOD also really seems to have an emphasis on developing Godly character & learning to write that I like. Great web-site. Thank you, I have learned a lot from reading it and this board.

Thank you Everyone!

In Christ,
Carin

I'm glad to help, Carin! The ladies on this board are very encouraging and so helpful. I like that ladies can come on this board and ask for placement help, and through reading different thoughts and opinions on the matter, come to a conclusion of their own that fits their children's needs the best. Whatever guide you decide to do, I wish you the best of luck, and look forward to sharing our HOD journey with each other!

In Christ,
Julie

Carin,

I agree that the ladies on the board are wonderful about helping one another talk through options to find the best placement. We are so blessed to have such wise, Christ-centered counsel available from those that share here! I feel blessed daily to know these ladies!

It sounds like you are coming up with a great placement! I also would lean toward Beyond as your core program and add in Rod and Staff 2, DITHR, and use math 2A/2B. If you desired to use the hands-on math activities with 2A/2B, you'd need the Bigger Hearts guide for that (but then you wouldn't need the 2A/2B math textbooks, because the Bigger guide's activities replace the textbooks). If you think you're fine without the hands-on activities, then you could instead use the schedule in Beyond's Appendix for 2A/2B, which uses the textbooks and workbooks for math 2A/2B.

One other thing to check is to make sure your child is ready for DITHR. It is possible that your little honey may need the last part of the Emerging Reader's Set first. In deciding, it would help so much to know some titles that your son is currently reading on his own. If you get a chance to share a few recent titles, then we can advise you even better about whether to do the last bit of the Emerging Reader's Set or whether to head straight into DITHR.

Blessings,
Carrie

Carrie wrote:Carin,

I agree that the ladies on the board are wonderful about helping one another talk through options to find the best placement. We are so blessed to have such wise, Christ-centered counsel available from those that share here! I feel blessed daily to know these ladies!

It sounds like you are coming up with a great placement! I also would lean toward Beyond as your core program and add in Rod and Staff 2, DITHR, and use math 2A/2B. If you desired to use the hands-on math activities with 2A/2B, you'd need the Bigger Hearts guide for that (but then you wouldn't need the 2A/2B math textbooks, because the Bigger guide's activities replace the textbooks). If you think you're fine without the hands-on activities, then you could instead use the schedule in Beyond's Appendix for 2A/2B, which uses the textbooks and workbooks for math 2A/2B.

One other thing to check is to make sure your child is ready for DITHR. It is possible that your little honey may need the last part of the Emerging Reader's Set first. In deciding, it would help so much to know some titles that your son is currently reading on his own. If you get a chance to share a few recent titles, then we can advise you even better about whether to do the last bit of the Emerging Reader's Set or whether to head straight into DITHR.

Blessings,
Carrie

Thank you Carrie! I Love your program more and more as I look through your web-site and board. I see so many selections that I have wanted to use with my children. The best part is that you have integrated them into a curriculum. Thank you! I also Love your TM lay-out. I can read it easily without being overwhelmed.

Thank you for the information regarding the math. It is helpful to know where the helpful additions are located in the TMs for both programs.

The following is a list of book titles that he has read between September 1, 2011 & now (the past 2 months). He often asks questions about what he reads or comments on it, so I do know that he is comprehending the books that he reads. I would love to have your opinion on reading placement. Reading by the way is his strength, and favorite part of home schooling; so he does cover a lot of ground. He reads silently about 1 - 2 hours a day by choice.

The past 2 months Books completed:
Encyclopedia Brown
McBroom's Wonderful One-Acre Farm
B is for Betsy
Besty and the Boys
Back to School Betsy
Besty and Billy
C.S. Lewis: Prince Caspian, Silver Chair, The Voyage of the Dawn Treader, The Boy and His Horse
Box Car Children Books #5 thru #19
God Speaks Numanggang
Most of Window on the World
NIrV Bible
Children's Bible
The Children of Noisy Village
Along Came a Dog
Marco Polo
Frindle
A Llama in the Family
Lumber Camp Library
He also likes to read different reference books we have around for Bible or creation science.

I did have him dictate a summary to me that I typed out for some of these books. His writing, overall, is far far behind his reading abilities. We only started spelling & grammar 2 weeks ago, and he hasn't done any language arts at this point.

He has read 8, out of the 14 books, on the emerging book list; including the beginner Bible. He did them as part of his readers 2 with SL. Since then he has finished SL readers 3 and SL readers 4/5. He has also read the Pathway Readers with R&S Grade 1 through the Grade 7 Pathway Reader.

What level should I put him in for reading?

Thank you Carrie!

In Christ,
Carin

I just wanted to pipe in here and say that I absolutely agree that Beyond would be a great place to start. I absolutely love Beyond. I am going through it this year for the 2nd time(with 2nd son) and I love it just as much as the first time we(with 1st son) went through it! I also wanted to tell you that I am taking my 2nd grader through it and have added in Rod and Staff English 2 and DTHOR. I also have an advanced reader on my hands, so adding DTHOR is an excellent choice for him. Beyond is so much fun with all of the hands on activities! I agree that you may not want to go there yet with all the writing that is required in Bigger. You will love working through Beyond this year as much as he does - it's fantastic!

Larissa wrote:I just wanted to pipe in here and say that I absolutely agree that Beyond would be a great place to start. I absolutely love Beyond. I am going through it this year for the 2nd time(with 2nd son) and I love it just as much as the first time we(with 1st son) went through it! I also wanted to tell you that I am taking my 2nd grader through it and have added in Rod and Staff English 2 and DTHOR. I also have an advanced reader on my hands, so adding DTHOR is an excellent choice for him. Beyond is so much fun with all of the hands on activities! I agree that you may not want to go there yet with all the writing that is required in Bigger. You will love working through Beyond this year as much as he does - it's fantastic!

Thank you Larissa. This is really helpful for me to read that Beyond is a great program, and can be used with a 2nd grader, who is an advanced reader, with English 2 and DTHOR. I think my ds would love all of the hands on activities, and having a program that is active with great books would be a good fit for him. DTHOR looks wonderful to me, but I am also looking forward to see if Carrie thinks it will work for him.

This board is wonderful! Thank you for all of the help ladies.