Ninth Grade Placement Question

[celestialmom]

Hey Carrie---just wondering what the difference between influenza A and B are? Not sure which one is terrorizing my family but a bit of downtime in bed is giving me a chance to write this post that I haven't been able to get to. I do hope that your family, Carrie, is feeling much better! Let me begin at the beginning. Last September when new school year hopes were running high I posted looking for advice about placing my eighth grade son. I so appreciated everyone's helpful comments and after a particularly helpful post from Julie about the differences between Preparing and Creation I decided to go with CtC. Well, I'm sorry to say that that is about as far as we got. The school year started and the classes we had already signed up for at our co-op began. They were good classes, such as Science of the Physical Creation by ABeka and The Fallacy Detective and took up most of our school time. We also had to do a crash course in English, trying to get ready for state required eighth grade testing this April (just a word of advice ladies--be diligent about doing the subjects you should be doing each year--it is very hard to try to catch up--I know things happen, as they did in our family, such as health problems, a special needs child and a dyslexic and dysgrahpic daughter--but try hard to stay the course.--you'll be glad you did!!!) Nevertheless, this is where we are and I truly believe that God can make beauty come from the ashes. My son will be going into ninth grade next year and I would love to use HOD with him, except I'm not sure where to place him. If we know we will be using HOD, we will sign up for non academic classes at our co-op. The only placement I'm sure of is that Rod and Staff English 6 will be perfect. Besides this I'm not sure what to do. I know the new ninth grade geography guide is coming out and sounds absolutely wonderful. but I'm not sure if that would be best. My son completed an intense seventh grade year in geography at our co-op using Around the World in 180 Days by Apologia Press. He really hasn't done much with oral or written narration, and his composition skills could use some help. We have never done any tyoe of literature study, and as I mentioned before, he'll be completing the physical science study at the end of this school year. We haven't done much else with science except bits and pieces of different thoings. As for history, the most he has done is reading literature on a wide variety of historical topics. No formal program per se except for the Around the World geogrphy course which included some history. I can't think of much else to say, except that any adivce would be so appreciated. Please let me know if you have any other questions. Sorry this is so long, but I'd like to end by saying that all of you ladies are such a blessing to me as I check in daily. You always speak so graciously and lovingly. Blessings to you all!!!!

[glperky]

I am sorry no one has answered your thread. I wish I could be of some help, but I have a son in the 9 th grade that I am wanting to place in HOD this fall. It sounds similar to your situation. Hope someone answers soon.

[celestialmom]

Thank you for the kind words.It is nice to hear that someone else is in a similar situation. After I reread my post I thought it might be helpful to add that I don't do very well when lesson plans are not all laid out for me. I have a difficult time deciding what and how much to do, so I'm not sure if the younger guides that would need beefed up would be a good choice. I could never decide which literature books to read, because they all look so good. I know Carrie had made recommendations for the lower guides which could help. Arghhhhhh! Anyhoo, on the plus side, I forgot to mention, my son is a very hard and indepedent worker. Looking forward to any responses. I know it is kind of hard to answer!!!

[glperky]

I don't do well with lesson plans not laid out for me either. I either add way too much or not near enough!

[Carrie]

I'm so sorry that has taken me a bit to get back to you! I wish you speedy healing. For us, the difference between Influenza A and B was in severity of symptoms and length or recovery. Influenza A lasted 10 days with fever, chills, headache, extreme fatigue, muscle aches, and very sore throat. Then, after the 10 days we all had the cough that lasted another week. After that I got Bronchitis. For us, Influenza B came after my boys all had sinus infections. It came with chills, aches, fatigue and headache but lasted a shorter duration. No one really had much of a fever. The sore throat really wasn't present much and the worst days were days 1-5 with 6 and 7 getting better. Then, the cough lingered another 3 days or so but not as severe. We tested positive, so we were sure for once of what we had! Anyway, I pray you'll be on the mend soon!

As far as your son goes, I am thinking that the jump to the geography guide could be a fairly big one, but I'm not sure from what I know so far. Where would you say that he would fit on the first page only of the placement chart? I'm leaning more toward a placement in RTR, Rev2Rev, or MTMM. It will matter how many outside activities he has as to what he can accomplish through HOD too, so I'm wanting to ask a few clarifying questions to help me understand your son a bit better.

As far as reading goes, can you share a few titles that he has read independently recently? Is he a good reader? As far as reading and following written directions and independent work habits go, how does he do in those areas?

Has he had much in the way of formal writing instruction? How does he do with written work?

Will you be using your own math? Are you looking to use the science through HOD? Was the Abeka Physical Science a grade 9 or grade 8 course? What sciences are you needing on your son's transcript for your state? Do you think that your son is college bound, or do you have any ideas of future plans for him?

What outside activities will your son have that will affect how much time he has available each week for his HOD studies?

If you get a chance to pop back and share that would help me advise you better.

Blessings,
Carrie

[celestialmom]

Hi Carrie! Please forgive me for taking so long to get back to you about your questions regarding my DS's placement for ninth grade. The stomach flu slowly worked its way through our family but I am now beginning to see some light at the end of the tunnel and the washing machine! I cannot complain though, after hearing about your family's never ending flu saga. I hope all is still well on the home front for you. I so appreciate your time and have been praying for wisdom to provide you with the right info to help in your recommendation, and also for you, as you consider our requests for guidance.

After studying the placement chart once again as you suggested, I think my thirteen year old DS would place between RTR and RevtoRev with skills in both areas. He is reading more difficult chapter books independently such as The Chronicles of Narnia series but has not been exposed any sort of formal literature study. He is a hard and independent worker and can follow directions well when he knows what is expected of him, but will not do much of anything when mom cannot make her mind up. Unless the choices are all laid out for me, I tend to become overwhelmed and then do nothing.

Our approach to writing has been a bit haphazard, consisting mainly of pulling out the BJU English book when he had a specific writing assignment due for one of his co-op classes or a paper for the history or science fair. I would then guide him through his composition using the English book and we would study grammar as we corrected any errors in his writing. This system was a bit too sporadic to provide an opportunity for retention and mastery to occur and thus the reason we studied grammar intensely this year in preparation for state required testing this April. I am very comfortable with moving into Rod and Staff English 6 which we have already begun since I had it. As I understand it, he should do the writing assignments in the Rod and Staff book along with whatever other writing program he is doing. Am I correct in assuming this? It will not be too much writing? I don't think mastery occurred in his writing skills either, and I would probably have to guide him through any compositions. We have not done any type of copywork, narration or dictation, so he probably places more in RtR with those skills

For math, we will be continuing with Saxon since we have all the books from my older children. He should be starting Algebra 2 this coming fall. We would like to do our science with HOD. I think my DS would thoroughly enjoy many of the resources that you have chosen. As I mentioned previously, he did Science of the Physical Creation by ABeka this year, which is a ninth grade book. He was exposed to a lot of new info in this book, some of it very difficult. I think he understood most of the concepts, but I would not say he mastered them. I am happy with his exposure to these concepts this year, knowing that he will see most of them again in his high school classes. In fact, as I looked at your resources for the Geography guide, I felt the books you chose for science would solidify many of the concepts that he learned this year. My son also completed Apologia's General Science program in his seventh grade year. Our study of science in the elementary years was very informal. Our state requires three science credits in high school but has no restrictions as to what they have to be. We will do science every year in preparation for college.

My son has not done much in the way of a formal study of history, except for the Around the World in 180 Days study by Apologia which he also did in his seventh grade year. This mainly geography program included a bit of history. Besides this, he has mostly read historical fiction books for history. Our state requires students to have a half credit of geography and also a half credit of civics which can be accomplished anytime between their seventh and twelfth grade years. I would not be opposed to him doing another intense study of geography as I know that repetition is the mother of learning (I'm not sure who said that, but somebody did!).

As far as outside activities are concerned during high school, we try to limit those except for any opportunities that God may send our way. My son will probably be involved in a few sports and will also participate in the drama production at our co-op. None of these activities should interfere with his studies. As I mentioned before, if we know we are doing HOD we can take non-academic classes at our co-op. In regards to future plans post high school, we just usually do the college route and then he is prepared to do whatever God calls him to. As of right now, we have no idea what that is., but we know that God does and we want to be ready!!!!!

Once again, thank you Carrie and please let me know if you have any other questions. I pray that everyone on the board will have a blessed and holy Easter season. In the church I attended while growing up, we would say in Ukrainian to one another--"Xpyctoc Bockpec", which means "Christ has Risen". The person you said it to would reply "Boyictinu Xpec", which means "Indeed He Has". Indeed He Has!!!!! Please excuse any misspellings of the Ukrainian words---it has been a long time., but it still brings back many happy memories along with thoughts of nut rolls and Paska bread. Excuse me, but I have to go dig out some recipes for a mega baking session. I hope I didn't make anyone too hungry!!!!!

[celestialmom]

Hi Carrie---I'm just bumping this up as you requested---sorry it is soooo long!

[Carrie]

celestialmom,

I am so glad that you bumped this! I am just home from convention, and we're shipping orders today, however I will take a good look at this tomorrow!

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

celestialmom,

Thanks so much for answering my many questions and for your patience in hearing back from me! As I am rereading this thread and pondering over placement for your son, I have two possible scenarios running in my head.

The first would be for him to do RTR. This scenario fits him best as far as skills go for history-related subjects and oral/written narrations, direction-following, level of reading, independence, etc. This is where I would place him without thinking about the sciences and graduation requirements in mind. In looking at the fact that he will be a freshman, he could count credit in world history for RTR, but would not get to the ancients part of world history deeply then (except in abbreviated form when he does the World Geography study). He would get the world history view through Rev2Rev and MTMM though, as both do American history in the context of World History.

If he went the RTR route, he would be able to use the Medieval-History Based Writing Lessons as part of his English (Lit/Comp) credit for high school. He would continue with Rod and Staff English 6 (and could do it half-speed or full-speed). In RTR English is scheduled at half-speed to alternate some with the 3 times a week writing lessons. He would also need a formal literature study. I would recommend doing DITHR Level 6/7/8 with him with higher level literature as scheduled 3 times weekly in RTR. Together with Medieval History-Based Writing Lessons and Rod and Staff English 6, this would give him his freshman lit./comp. credit.

RTR's Bible study would need beefing up for credit as it is not enough on its own. Here is a link where I give some ideas of what could be done for that. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7240

Since your son wouldn't get to the study of Pilgrim's Progress that we're planning to include in the World History guide, you might want to look at doing it for Bible within RTR instead.

The Devotional Study for Boys in RTR would be good for high school, using Boyhood and Beyond as scheduled in RTR. It would be a part of the Bible credit.

It sounds like your son is on a great path for math, so he'd just keep going there. The science in RTR is earth science, and it will be too young without additions for high school credit. The thread I linked above mentions some ideas of what to do with the science. Earth science is not done very much in high school anymore, so you could ponder a more typical science path like Physical Science or IPC, Biology, Chemistry, and then an advanced science instead. If you did that, then you'd just add whatever science was needed to the HOD guide you were doing.

Or, if you did desire to go the earth science route with beefing up, then you would go the Earth Science, Physical Science, Chemistry, Biology route. This route would align more closely with the HOD guide sequence you would be on (as RTR is earth, Rev2Rev is advanced physical science for high school, MTMM is introduction to Chemistry, and World Geography is IPC - at which point you would need to do Biology instead, which you would borrow from the World History guide we will have out by then). You could also look at adding the second book in the Evolution: The Grand Experiment series on fossils to the earth science in the RTR guide if desired. It is well-done and interesting and could be added on the free 5th day to raise the level of the study. Signs and Seasons is another possible add-on to raise the level of the study.

You would also want to add some sort of foreign language to RTR. I would suggest starting with Linney's Getting Started with Spanish. This would get you started earning credit for foreign language in a painless way. Last, I would look to earn one more .5 credit course credit along with RTR, so I would either lean toward adding Art of Argument twice weekly to finish out the Logic semester credit you began with The Fallacy Detective last year, or I would add the Thinking Toolbox to serve that same purpose.

This would help your son earn a full credit in History, English (lit./comp/grammar), Math, and science with lab, and a semester credit in foreign language, Bible, and logic.

The other option would be to do Rev2Rev. In this option, your son would earn credit in the first half of American history and earn credit in Physical Science with lab (by doing the Advanced Physical Science option scheduled in Rev2Rev). The Bible would need to be added to as mentioned here for credit: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=8208&p=59715

The composition book scheduled in Rev2Rev would work for high school comp. and coupled with DITHR 6/7/8 and Rod and Staff English 6 (at full-speed) would earn a full credit in English (lit./comp/grammar).

The Music Appreciation study could be added to to earn a semester credit easily, as mentioned in the thread above.

We would also recommend that your son add to the government foundation in Rev2Rev to gain credit in government. THis is also mentioned in the thread linked above. Last, it would be good to consider beginning a foreign language. Getting Started with Spanish would work well for this.

My hesitation in recommending the Rev2Rev option for your son's freshman year would be the heaviness of the requirements of the Rev2Rev guide in addition to the add-on's needed to make them credit worthy. I believe that your son would do better if he had a bit lighter year in RTR first to ease him into CM skills and HOD prior to jumping into the rigor that will be required of him to earn credit in the guides from Rev2Rev on up. However, in looking at the two plans, I believe you'll be able to tell better which would suit him best.

In Rev2Rev he would earn a full credit in early American history, English, math, and Physical Science with lab. With beef-ups, he would earn a semester credit in Bible (or Biblical Worldview if desired), Fine Arts/Music Appreciation, government, and foreign language.

Feel free to share your thoughts, I'd love to hear them!

Blessings,
Carrie

[deltagal]

I'm loving this thread, celestial mom. And I really like the idea of going the RTR/Earth Science route as Carrie suggested and simply following the sequence of the guides. (I'm strongly considering this for my 9th grader.) I hope you'll post more questions I'm listening in....