Questions...skip MTMM

[snadig]

Hello ladies.

I have some questions. I am considering skipping MTMM and moving my daughter right on into the Geography guide. She is doing great with RevtoRev, and is very excited to start the new guide. I am going to have her read some of the books from MTMM over the summer.I was also thinking of having her do College Prep for a semester. Does this sound like too much?

Another questions.

I have my middle dd starting CtC in Aug with extensions and my ds(8) starting Bigger half speed for most of the time. Any advice managing these guides?

Thanks for any advice.
Stacey
Love...Love...Love HOD!

[basesloaded]

I am planning on doing the very same thing with my oldest so I am interested in what others have to say !

[billswife]

I decided to skip Rev to Rev with my 8th grader this year and moved into MTMM. It's worked very well for us and he's really enjoying the more challenging work. I didn't like skipping the time period completely so he has done a little reading about it. I figured that he would do the time period he missed again in high school. We are really looking forward to the new Geography guide next year.

I'm also doing 3 guides. We are doing Bigger, Preparing, and MTMM. I've found that my DD in Preparing can do a lot independently and of course the 8th grader does also. I think that helps a lot when doing 3 guides. We trade off--when one can work independently I work with the one who needs my help. I was very worried about having enough time to help everyone, but it actually has gone very well.

[Tree House Academy]

My 8th grader is finishing Rev to Rev and we have decided to go on to MTMM for several reasons.

1. He got a credit for Science this year, so he can actually get the intro to Chemistry without worrying about it not counting for our State (it doesn't). He has to have one Physical Science (which he got in Rev to Rev), one Biology, and one Chemistry. We decided an intro to Chemistry was just what he needed before tackling the harder stuff.

2. He is getting half a credit this year for Rev to Rev with extensions toward his American History credit. Next year, MTMM with extensions will give him the second half of that credit making it a full year of American History he has studied.

3. We have chosen to do CLE's English I and Lit I combo for his Lit credit. That makes it easier to use MTMM without having to worry about "credit worthiness" or beefing up in the English department. We will continue to do Write with the Best 2 until the writing ramps up in the CLE...and I may even flip back and forth between them because I LOVE Write with the Best. We will lso continue with dictation because he needs it.


So, at the end of his first year of highschool (counting the credits he received as part of 8th grade this year) he will have the following credits:

Bible - 1
Foreign Language - 2 (8th grade and 9th grade)
American History - 1 (.5 in 8th grade, .5 in 9th grade)
Literature - 1
Algebra I - 1
Physical Science with Lab - 1 (8th grade Rev to Rev Science with Advanced Logbook)

That gives him 7 out of 23 total credits needed to graduate. We may add in keyboarding for one more credit depending on his work load.

As for his sophomore year, I will have to decide between the geog guide and the next one following. I think, in these high school years, it will be about what your school requires for graduation more than anything. I may do Geog and then borrow Science from the next guide up because we do not need the integrated physics and chem credit to graduate. I will cross that bridge when I get closer to it.

[snadig]

Thanks for your replies. It was vey helpful.

I think I will have her do some reading over the summer, she loves to read so it shouldn't be a problem. We have had the best year with HOD, and running the 3 guides went well. We have had some bumps but everyone does.

I think we will be fine in the next guides for my two youngest and my oldest is really excited about doing he new Geography guide.

Thanks for your help.
Stacey

[Carrie]

Stacey,

The ladies are doing a good job of helping you talk through your options. I would encourage you to wait to make a decision on whether to move up to the geography guide until you have a chance to see the skills on the placement chart for the new guide and be sure your daughter can handle the geography guide. The decision of whether to move up a guide or not will be different for each family, however I wouldn't be too quick to skip over the skills and needed growth that will take place in MTMM.

It is easy to push a child forward, however it is very difficult to back a child up. This is why it would be very good to wait until closer to the end of the year to really assess your daughter and see what she is ready to handle then. The school day in the World Geography guide will be quite a bit longer than the day in MTMM (by at least an hour to an hour and a half more). The amount of reading will also take a jump up, as well as the number and rigor of the various subjects. It would take a strong student in all areas to jump from Rev2Rev to the World Geography guide. So, your student would have to be very strong in the 3R's and in science to make that kind of a jump. If she is struggling in any area, then I would not push her forward. If, on the other hand, she has been flying through all of her subjects and can easily handle what is written in the guide, then you could consider bumping her up.

Blessings,
Carrie

[snadig]

Carrie,

Thank you for your reply. It has made me take a step back and think about things. I think the first thing I should be doing is praying for Gods wisdom and guidance. I tend to think I have it all under control, then God gently reminds me that I am not.

I know I would have to beef up some of MTMM to make it high school worthy. She is a strong writer and has been a bit frustrated with creative writing going so slow, I worry write with best would be to easy for her( maybe do adventure novel). She loves DITHOR, but trying to find books for her to read can be hard, she has read so many, a lot from MTMM and some from the lit selections for the geography guide.

At first she was surprise by the work load in Rev to Rev, but now she seems to just fly through it. As you can see I need to be praying for wisdom. I am not worried God brought us to HOD and that I am so thankful, He will show us the way, I just need to ask.

Thanks again for your reply,
Stacey

[Carrie]

Stacey,

Thanks so much for coming back to share a bit more about your daughter! That really does help! It does sound like it is likely your daughter could handle the geography guide, because it sounds like her reading and writing skills are strong and that she adjusted well to the upped level of rigor that came along with Rev2Rev. I am also assuming she does well working independently and that she can easily read and follow the lengthy directions in the guide, which will play a huge role in success as well.

It is a hard decision whether to beef up MTMM or head into high school and use the guides as written. It will be different for each family. I just wanted to be sure that your daughter could handle the jump successfully, and it sounds like she could.

I appreciate the dialogue as we deeply desire for kiddos be successful and find the right HOD path for them! I think you have a good plan in mind for your daughter.

Blessings,
Carrie

[school4princesses]

It is a hard decision whether to beef up MTMM or head into high school and use the guides as written. It will be different for each family. I just wanted to be sure that your daughter could handle the jump successfully, and it sounds like she could.

Carrie,

I suspect there are a lot of families in a similar situation. It is one which has never been needed before because there were not high school level programs. I know your time is limited, but if there is an overall standard that will help those of us in this boat decide whether to beef up MTMM or to move on to the Geography guide, it would be very helpful. With convention time right around the corner, there may not be enough time for those of us who are a little OCD ( ) and like to show up with lists of everything we need to purchase without having that decision made. I don't know what the Sneak Peek schedule is, or when the specific skill chart for the new guide will be released. That may help, but on the chance there is anything you can say to help define a difference, I'd love to hear it.

Blessings.

[holdinon]

We are another family in the same boat. I do believe dd could skip MTMM. We began HOD when she was in 5th with Preparing with extensions. She could have done CtC, but being new, we decided to go with Preparing (which I do not regret). She has always done all of the extensions, done R&S grammar at the next level (she will be finishing 6 in May), and has been doing Dithor 6/7/8 for two years and is currently working from the level 7/8 package. She is doing well with the advanced science with RevtoRev. I do think her time management skills could be improved; however, she does finish her school day in a reasonable amount of time.

I know that my next dd will NOT get to the highschool guides, and at this point, I can't see her being in a position where skipping would be feasible. So I do know that at some point we will need to beef up for hs credit....and I will be happy to do that. However, with this particular dd being my first to go through high school, and feeling (mostly) confident that she could do it, it is definitely appealing to think of going straight to the Geo guide and know that all bases are covered without having to add.

All that said, I still am not sure I want to skip a guide. Maybe it is my perfectionism and wanting to do things by-the-book. Plus there is so much in MtMM that I wouldn't want dd to miss (even though I know she'd get it eventually).

So much to think and pray about!

[homeforhim]

I am in the same boat here too, doing Rev2Rev this year with my grade 8 son. I have to admit that I do want to put him in the Geography guide as skill wise I am sure he can do it (I'll know for certain when the chart is up) and like others, no need to beef up. Also, I am buying the guide anyway for the right side of the guide (other subjects). My problem is perfectionism too, and although we are not supposed to be hung up on the history cycle, I would like my oldest ds to have studied modern history to some degree before high school. We really haven't done it in any depth, only touching on the World Wars. My younger son, also doing Rev2Rev, is in grade 6 and will have time to do M2M no problem.

I have thought of having my older son read through the SOTW Volume 4 as an extension for the last few months of the year. Is anyone else considering doing this?

Blessings,
Rachael

[Tiffini]

I will be skipping MtMM with my daughter who is currently in 9th grade and doing Rev2Rev with Extensions this year. At first, it really bothered me to have her skip this Guide for two main reasons: I did not want her to miss that portion of US History and I didn't want her to miss any of the great things that Carrie would have in that Guide!

For us, though, it just makes good sense to move her ahead into the Geography Guide. She is more than capable of doing the work, she wants to be separate from her twin siblings that have been doing the same program with her for years, and I don't want to have to beef up for HS credit again. This will leave us with an interesting situation in her senior year. She will not need to redo US History for HS credit which will be the history in that Guide. So, I think we will do the rest of the Guide and add to it whatever extras she is wanting to focus on or do dual credit, etc., since her History credits will be covered!

We have talked about it and she is more than willing to do some "summer school" where she will do the US History reading from M2MM and some of the Extension books as well in order to be able to skip the Guide. Since her twin siblings will be doing the M2MM guide next year, she will hear about and be exposed to all that they are doing throughout the year as well and will pick up on anything that she might miss.

Carrie, do you think you will have the first week of the Geography guide available for viewing at the Cincinnati convention in a month? I know that's coming up fast!!

[Carrie]

Ladies,

I have been pondering this thread quite a bit, and I see three possible options for those who have an 8th grader just finishing Rev2Rev and are weighing whether to go into MTMM as a 9th grader or to move into the new World Geography guide.

Before I list the options, I will mention that as I'm having my second son (who is an 8th grader) go through MTMM this year I am so glad he has had this tour through later American history the way it is written in MTMM. It is such a different experience than my own oldest son had when he just used SOTW along with living books through Ambleside for this time period. I can admit that in comparison my older son's approach did not have the faith-based richness and coordination of American history with world history that MTMM has. Students who skip MTMM will miss the experience of reading story after story of how Christians dealt with events in history that would shake the faith of most people today (and it is a different experience reading these stories interwoven with the context of the flow of the history of that time, rather than just reading through the stories at random). MTMM also provides an important deeper look at the very volatile time period of World Wars and continuing unrest in recent history; and it does it by integrating world history and American history, while sharing stories of people of faith who lived during those times. This integration provides a much fuller picture than can be gained when studying any of these types of history in isolation. Things like the Depression and the Holocaust are handled on a much deeper level in MTMM than they will be able to be handled in a one-year sweep of World History in High School.

For these reasons, I believe that MTMM is an important guide in deepening a child's faith and in understanding that God is sovereign even in times of terrible trial and tribulation. This is why I hesitate to have kiddos move past MTMM and into the high school guides too quickly. Simply reading the resources from MTMM will in no way duplicate the year of learning and wrestling with hard faith issues that comes from using the guide as written. This is because MTMM goes way beyond a book list for students to read through. It is written for students to grapple with and think deeply about, and I pray that it will make their faith more unshakeable by providing examples of Christians from the past who responded to sin's terrible consequences in a way that is pleasing to our Lord and Savior.

With this in mind, one possible option would be to continue on into MTMM and to borrow part of the right side of the World Geography guide (for science mainly). In this scenario, you would go through MTMM mainly as written, except for the science. You would use DITHR along with higher level books, WWTB Vol. II, and Rod and Staff as scheduled in MTMM to earn a credit of literature. This option will work well for students who fit better in this guide for language arts and for whom the jump up to the World Geography guide's level of literature study, composition, and grammar would be too much of a jump. It will also work well for students who need a gentler step up in Bible, as Bible is fine for a 1/2 credit as written in MTMM but not as rigorous as the Bible in the World Geography guide. You could also add more to the Economics to earn a 1/2 credit in MTMM, and add the foreign language from the World Geography guide (or in any way you choose) for a 1/2 credit. Then, the following year, you would head into the World Geography guide, using everything in that guide as written, except the science and possibly the foreign language as a 10th grader. This path provides more of a stepping stone in language arts and Bible, and waits a year to add more coursework like Logic and World Religions (and possibly even waiting on foreign language), thus shortening the child's day significantly when compared with the World Geography guide's pacing. This schedule will also work well for those who are struggling or are a bit behind in math, as we don't want to overwhelm the child who is needing to work hard on the 3R's by adding to many additional weighty subjects too soon.

If this scenario does not seem to fit your child, then a second possible option would be to continue on into MTMM for the left side only and use the right side only of the World Geography guide for the 3R's, Science, Bible, and Logic. In essence, you would have your child do the left side of the guide as written from MTMM and add the right side of the World Geography guide as written for the other subjects. This would be a pattern you could then follow the remaining years of high school. In this scenario, you would also add something more to earn the Economics semester credit, as your child would miss that subject by missing the final high school guide. This scenario would work well for a child who is ready for more rigor in literature study, composition, grammar, math, and Bible than what is found within MTMM. It would add an additional course of Logic and add a higher level of science. However, it would allow the child to wait on adding other electives (like World Religions and foreign language) and keep the history more manageable in its requirements (making sure the child doesn't jump too far forward too fast), so as not to overwhelm a child. In essence it would allow a child ready for a bit more to move forward in some subjects without the jump being huge in all subjects. Of course, you wouldn't have to use the entire right side of the World Geography guide (if you desired a different combination in the 3R's, Science, Bible, or Logic), however I share this option because it is a very clean and easy option to do...Left side of one guide and right side of the other. It would also result in earning all needed credits for graduation without a lot of tweaking and modifying each year and make a fairly straight path through high school accessible, balancing weight of content in a bit of a middle ground approach.

If this option does not seem to fit your child, then a third possible scenario would be to move past MTMM and just do the Geography guide as written for 9th grade. As a parent, I can definitely see the appeal of this option, yet I wouldn't do it with my own child without quite a bit of prayer and thought. Some students will handle this jump just fine and others may struggle with the jump from Rev2Rev to the World Geography guide. This is why there is not a one-size fits all answer to this scenario. Instead, each family must seek what is right for his/her student, and each student is different! Students would need to be ready to move onto a much higher level of literature study, composition, grammar, Bible, science (with higher more rigorous labs), and three extra electives of coursework (like Logic, World Religions, and foreign language). They will need to have the math required to pursue a higher level of science with lab calculations, and be ready to spend more hours doing school each day. Students will need to be good time managers and have good accountability when working independently. They need to be able to write easily and read very well, as the number of pages and number of readings really jumps up. They will need to be able to get their thoughts on paper in lucid form quite easily and be able to edit their own work readily. If this doesn't describe your student, then one of the other two options that I shared will be a better choice.

The option that fits best for one student may not be the best option for another. I want to be sure as I give any advice that I remember to look at each child as an individual, rather than giving a "pat" answer based on age level. This is because so much more must be considered in this decision than age, and without knowing more about each child as an individual I can't begin to give advice as to which scenario would be best. This is why I think this type of decision must be a dialogue, with the final decision varying from family to family.

Blessings,
Carrie

[holdinon]

I am not the op here (sorry, Stacy that we sort of took over your thread ).
And I don't have a lot of time, but I just wanted to say thank you, Carrie, for taking the time to ponder this with all of us and share your thoughts.
Last night, I had spent some time really thinking over dd's skill set. I became convinced that she could, in fact, handle the much heavier load, and still do well. Then I spent some time going back over old threads from the sneak peaks from when you were working on MtMM. There was a nagging in me that wouldn't let me rest in moving to Geography...even though I still felt like she could "handle" it. So, after discussing it with dh (and also somewhat with dd---we are taking input from her, but she does know it is our decision ), still not coming to any real conclusions. Academically, it just makes sense to move to the World Geog---yet still the unrest.

Then, in reading your post earlier, (and subsequently discussing it with dh and dd over lunch), we kept coming back to one point: We have to go back to the basics of why we chose this path (homeschooling) in the first place. (Which is to take every opportunity available to encourage and provide our children with experience that allow them to become believers, and then develop a growing, steadfast devotion to their Redeemer). Academics is just a plus. After reading your sneak peaks (of MtMM) and then your thoughts this morning, we are now seeing things a bit differently. Just because it makes academic sense doesn't necessarily make it the right answer.

We will, of course, continue to ponder the specifics, but I feel pretty sure at this point, that we will be going into the MtMM guide for the left side. We will probably do the right side of the Geog, as she will be done with R&S 6 and dictation, and will have completed the 7/8 book pack, and will need the science. So, for us, your second option looks to be a good match. Will still be in prayer about it, but I already feel more at peace about the whole thing.
Angie

[snadig]

Ladies thanks for all the wonderful input.

Carrie thank you for your thoughtful response. I have been praying about this and it has been on my mind a lot. Some questions/thoughts.

We are finishing RevtoRev with extensions and advanced science this may. We did the guide as written adding all the extras. So what if we did this:

MTMM as written using extensions, counting RevtoRev and MTMM history and extensions wouldn't that be counted as 1 credit for American History? Advanced science from RevtoRev count as 1 credit for Physical science? We will be more than have way through Rod and staff 6 and will finish that early in MTMM and start into Rod and Staff 7.

I guess my questions is if I count both guides for 1 History and Science for 1 credit for Physical science, What or why do I need to beef up. My other question is we aren't going to finish all the genres for book pack 7/8 for DITHOR, only because we were slow, the reading is very easy of her. So I am not sure if just doing Write with the Best 2 is enough (and if it will a good level for her). She hasn't done a focused study like this so maybe even if it is a bit easy it would be good for her.

So if we use MTMM for high school would it look like this?
Bible - 1/2 credit
History - RevtoRev&MTMM for 1 credit
Science- Advanced Physical science w/labs from RevtoRev for 1 credit/do MTMM science as written
literature - DITHOR with Higer level boosk(not sure which ones or if we could finish what we have, don't really want to use the books from the Geography guide, as she has already read some of them and I would like to have those for the next year) write with the best 2, we would finish Rod and Staff 6 and start 7 for 1 lierature credit
Math - Finish Algerbra start advanced algerbra w/ Life of Fred 1 credit
She does some out side classes like art,theater, and pe, so not sure what I am missing, maybe do a langauage?

I do think I am leaning more to doing the MTMM guide instead of jumping up to the Geography guide for some of the reasons Carrie you stated regarding letting them grow in their faith. I was a bit worried about how to make it work for High School, but maybe this isn't as hard as I make it. I will also begin CTC with my 7th grader, and Bigger with my 3rd grader (half speed). My high schooler will read all of the books from CTC as well, she loves to read.

thanks for the help and let me know your thoughts.
Stacey