Why is the Science in MtMM not Credit worthy for HS?

[Tree House Academy]

The Physical Science we are doing in Rev to Rev is wonderful, and according to the curriculum website, it IS high school credit worthy (and we are definitely counting it). So, I am just wondering what makes the science from MtMM NOT credit worthy. Is there anything I can do to beef it up? I would love to stay with the guide as much as possible. We have used HOD for the last 3 years and I am a little spoiled.

For Lit Credit, we will do the CLE English I/CLE Lit I combo
For Math, we will do Algebra I with Teaching Textbooks
We will also finish our foreign language requirements with Rosetta Stone French 2

[psreit]

Obviously, we are not that far in the guides, but I have 3 who graduated from homeschooling. Although I am not familiar with the material in the upper guides, except by seeing the list of books on the website, I see no reason why they couldn't count for credit. In our state, we have different homeschool diploma programs available, just like the schools offer. There is the academic (college prep) diploma, general, business, and vocational....maybe others. If you are wanting your child to work for the academic diploma then, yes, you will need specific sciences, math, history, etc. to earn that. But, if your child is going to receive a general diploma, he/she can earn that by doing any type of science, etc. In high school, my oldest two worked mainly in what would be considered business math, but they didn't fulfill all the requirements for a business diploma. So, consequently, they earned a general diploma. It all depends on the abilities and interest of your child. So, the type of diploma needs to be determined before they start high school, to make sure the diploma requirements are completed by graduation. Check your states requirements and check with your homeschool association and find out what diploma programs are offered.

Because of my dd's stuggles in math, personally, I do not look for her to be able to complete the math required to earn the academic diploma, so, more than likely, she will earn a general diploma. There is not only one way to earn credit for high school. HTH

[Tree House Academy]

I am in TN, and according to our cover school, to earn an academic diploma, a student has to do Chemistry as one of the Science options. Other than the requirement that you do 150 hours of study, there is no "guide" of what you must use to meet that requirement. If I were not using HOD, I could very easily choose the Chemistry book she has chosen and meet the requirements with that alone. Also, according to my cover school, you only have to have one lab science and the Elemental Science Advanced from Rev to Rev counts as a high school credit with LAB! So, we have met that requirement and any experiments or labs that we do in the future are just a bonus (of course, who could do chemistry or biology without a lab! LOL). Anyway, I just wanted to make sure that the distinction that it was not credit worthy was made by what was required in a particular state and not some overall reason that I don't know since this is my first year teaching high school.

[Carrie]

Rebecca,

This is a good question. I'll link you to a past thread where we give suggestions for how to make the science in MTMM work for high school credit. Link: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10600

One of the main barriers to the MTMM science being counted as an intro. to chem. 1 credit science course is that the last 8-9 weeks or so of the MTMM science focus on Evolution: The Grand Experiment and the Genetics & DNA Kit (neither of which directly relate to the study of chemistry). So, the link above shares how to rectify that potential barrier to credit.

Another barrier is that Fermi and Einstein are more physicists than chemists, and the inclusion of their biographies with the mix of Genetics and DNA and chemistry makes the overall science in MTMM more of an eclectic feel than a straight-forward chemistry focus. This means that in order to award high school credit for chemistry, certain topics really need to be added to the MTMM study in order to truly award credit.

In case the link above does not work, I'll mention that by substituting Ellen McHenry's Carbon Chemistry for Evolution: The Grand Experiment and by adding the Chemistry 101 DVD's, you could award a full credit in Introduction to Chemistry with lab for high school if desired.

On a sidenote, I am so glad that you are enjoying Exploration Education Advanced Version. We do tell families that the Advanced version is creditworthy for high school physical science with lab, and we have had wonderful feedback from families who use it!

Blessings,
Carrie

[8arrows]

I am adding the CHEM 101 DVDs and I may add the chemistry paces form PACWORKS. Carrie is using both the chemistry and physics paces in the Geography guide, so I will need to think through whether I want to do that. Just a couple of ideas if you do want to add to it. (Carrie and I were posting at the same time.)

[Tree House Academy]

Thank you so much for weighing in here, Carrie. This is perfect! I am so excited that we can move right on into MtMM without worry. And thank you for clairfying the reasons that it is not fully credit-worthy on its own. I truly hate to miss the last half of American History and I also hate to pick apart HOD. I love using it as written - it has worked well for us for so many years now.

The Elemental Science has been WONDERFUL. My son found the sheets difficult to fill out at first in the Advanced notebook, but I pushed him a bit and he really rose to the challenge. He has done an amazing and often IMPRESSIVE job with all of the experiments and he has learned so much this year. I have nothing but good to say about that program choice.

[school4princesses]

Thanks, Carrie, for the information about beefing up MtMM science. This gives me something to ponder, and also brings up a question. I plan to use MtMM next year with my then 9th grader. We have used Rev2Rev science this year, although not the Advanced version (for reasons too complicated to get into here.) What I'm wondering is if beefing up the science in MtMM for a full credit in chemistry and then following it up with the plans as written for the Geography guide will have any overlap? Also, she will only just be taking algebra next year, so would it be too much to have her do a Chemistry credit without all the math? (I just cannot remember back that far to high school chemistry. It's been way to long! ) Or would there be a better path that you'd recommend? Thanks, as always, for your help.

Blessings.

[Tiffini]

I'm also curious about the naming of this course for HS credit. If we beef up the Science as you indicated, Carrie, do we still call it Intro to Chemistry on the transcript? Do the kids not need Chemistry (without the Intro) part on the transcript? What would need to be added to call it Chemistry I on the transcript? I just want to make sure that I'm doing things correctly!

So glad you are regaining your health! There is so much sickness going around here in Indiana as well.

[Carrie]

school4princesses,

My advice as far as the sciences for high school goes will be different for different families dependent on what the particular student's plans are after high school. If your child plans to go on to a 4 year college, then it would be good to have a more rigorous chemistry than that which will be offered within MTMM even with beefing up. However, if your child's plans are for community college, or for no college at all, then the beef-ups for the science in MTMM will be fine for chemistry credit. Whether you go with the beefing up option for MTMM's chem. or whether you wait for chem. by doing the chem. we schedule for high school, either way your child won't need a ton of math as we're planning to go the conceptual chemistry route in high school, so the math will not be a a barrier.

The credit for chemistry and the credit for Integrated chemistry and physics are considered separate from one another, as the IPC credit is looked upon as more of a physical science (with chem. added in type credit) while the chemistry credit is just more in-depth chemistry. However, you will want to check your state's requirements for science to be sure.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

Tiffini,

The reason I'd lean toward more of an intro. to chem. credit is because the course would be less rigorous than a typical chem. course (if you go the beefing up through MTMM route). If you get a chance to read my post to school4princesses above, this will make more sense.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Carrie]

Ladies,

As you're pondering your science options, I will share that a more typical sequence would be to do as follows:
9th grade Either Physical Science or Integrated Physics or Chemistry (IPC is preferred by most states over physical science)
10th grade Biology
11th grade Chemistry
12th grade Physics or another advanced science

You could still follow this sequence by simply borrowing the science from the guide ahead of the one you are doing each year.

Blessings,
Carrie

[Tiffini]

That is exactly what crossed my mind this afternoon! Why not just do the Science from the guide ahead of us with my daughter next year? So we would do the Geography guide science while doing the MtMM guide. That makes more sense to my foggy brain and I think it would work out nicely. That way, we would have IPC for 10th grade, Biology for 11th, and Chem for 12th and that would be good! I don't think she is headed towards a Science field, so that would fill the requirements.

[Tabitha]

If you pull the science used in the guide ahead, can the science be done on it's own or is it best to buy that next guide for any science box instructions (to have the info, activities and such for further help)?

[Tree House Academy]

In my state (TN), going through our cover school (a Christian Academy) on the 4-year college track, you only need 3 science credits - one with a lab. I have decided that, since my ds took the physical science through EE Advanced this year, next year, we are going to do MTMM as written - maybe beefing up with the DVDs on the 5th day and maybe even doing the Carbon Chem book as time allows. It dawned on me that my son will have 4 years to complete 2 science credits, so truly, I can wait. I will do MtMM this year and then just borrow the Biology from the guide after Geog for his 10th grade year. This is a much better plan for him and I am very much at peace with this decision. Thank you for all the input from everyone! Blessings!!

[Leslie in TN]

We're planning to do something very similar to you, Rebecca. We're also in TN (and therefore have a lot of flexibility). We're using Exploration Education Advanced this year for 8th, and I'm planning on using MTMM science more or less as written, but with the other McHenry book added in.

Any reason why we couldn't just name the Rev2Rev and MTMM science together as an IPC-style course for 9th grade (just completed over 2 years)?