Spelling/dictation: not sure what to do

[psreit]

I have to make a confession After hearing different ones talk about AAS, I decided to give that a try. Not because I didn't want to do HOD spelling, but because my dd's spelling needs drastic help. I thought the extra activities in AAS would be good for her. Well, I'm finding that we are skipping spelling often, just because I always wait until last to do that. I started with AAS level 1, because I knew we would be getting to some words in there that dd needed to learn. Basically, we have been doing easy words that she already knows. I just felt I needed to follow the book from the beginning. Also, because of dd's struggles with her reading, I got R&S phonics 2 and have been giving her that to do some days, because 2 years ago, we started TRL, but didn't finish it. So, I am automatically feeling like I have deprived her of some phonics. The R&S phonics is just a workbook that I have her do a page or two. She is doing well in that.

I guess what I am getting at is, the AAS teaches the phonograms. So, my first question is, "Is this overkill!" I feel Angie needs some help in this area mainly because of her spelling. She is just learning the different ways to spell long vowels, e.g. long 'o' is spelled -o-e, -oa-, -ow, -oe and -o. When she is reading, she can usually pronounce them, but spelling them, she just writes 'o' if I am not sitting there spelling it for her. Some of my reason for doing this is because of reading, although she has read some ER books, but we have gotten to books that now have many words that are too hard for her, so I have her in some other readers for building before we go back to the ER"s.

I was looking over things this morning and now I am torn. I looked over the HOD spelling lists in Bigger. We did list 1 last year in Beyond. I also looked at the dictation passages. I honestly believe she could do 50+ of the dictaion passages. She is used to writing sentences with capital letters and end marks from doing English. The sentences in the first half of the dictation passages have words that I believe she would not have trouble spelling.

I need to make a decision. Is AAS and phonics too much? I'm thinking it is, because we rarely get both accomplished in a day. But, I feel I would like to stay with one or the other just for extra practice. Should I continue with AAS for spelling where she will continue to learn the phonograms and stop the phonics? Do I stop AAS, keep her in phonics and go to HOD spelling list or dictation? Since we didn't do spelling list 2, should that be done first? I am just needing some consistency in this area and haven't done that because of the extras. Any advice is appreciated.

[Tracee]

I'm not an expert, just a mom trying to find what works best for my dyslexic son. I too have thought about AAS, but I can't help but wonder how all that would fit into our day. I've corresponded with Marie, the creator of AAS, and I know that AAS is an Orton-Gillingham method to teach spelling. I've only seen level 1, but I know that OG method uses lots of rules to teach spelling. Sometimes, this is the only method that works with some kids. Even though my son is dyslexic, this method was slowing him down a bit. We were using another OG method called Barton Reading and Spelling, but it was so slow going that we switched to a different method called Phono-Graphix. Now we are using one program, ABeCeDarian, for both phonics and spelling that is based on the Phono-graphix method, and it is working fabulously. In my opinion, once they have a good grasp on hearing all the sounds in a word, then they need to strengthen their visual memory. Spelling is a combination of phonemic awareness (being able to hear all the sounds within a word) and visual memory. By reading the words over and over again and writing them down, a visual picture of those sounds gets embedded in their brain. I'm not sure if it is just my ds learning style, but it is really working for him.

If you are feeling like she needs more phonics instruction, I would check on the ABeCeDarian website. The books are inexpensive and move quickly. It is really the quickest method to get students reading fluently. We've only been using it for a few months, and we've made more progress in the last few months than we had all last year. Also, the lessons don't take long at all. It's a balanced approach like HOD.

I hope that helps,
Tracy

[Tracee]

I read your post again, and wanted to apologize. I think I said a lot, but never really answered your question. I do think that AAS and phonics is a lot, but not overkill if she truly needs it. I think it might be a problem because the two use different methodologies. It could get confusing for her. There is a program called ABeCeDarian that combines the two together. It uses both a bottom up and a top down approach. The bottom up would be working on reading and spelling specific phonograms, and the top down would be reading those phonograms in engaging text. The book that we are currently using is more for reading, but there are explicit instructions on the website as to how to implement spelling instruction into the lessons. Although the books are fairly inexpensive, you may not want to spend any more money on another curriculum. In that case, you can borrow the book Reading Reflex,the authors of this book created the Phono-Graphix method, from the library and use their steps to work on reading and spelling phonograms. You could also still use the spelling list in HOD. I hope I didn't make you more confused.


Tracy

[psreit]

Tracee,
You did not confuse me. I do not plan to use anything different than something I already have. One thing you said in your first post struck a chord though. You said spelling was a combination of phonemic awareness and visual memory. My dd is very good with sounds. It is learning that some letters don't make sounds and adding a silent vowel will make the other vowel long, things like that my dd is having a hard time with. That's why I keep thinking she still needs phonics. When you mentioned the visual memory, I got to thinking that doing the HOD spelling list is giving that visual memory. So, if I do HOD spelling lists, how important is the phonics and learning the phonograms? In AAS there is a lot of busy work and learning rules, reviewing this and that. That's probably why we end up skipping it a lot. So, I think I will just go to the spelling lists in HOD like I should have continued with in the first place.

I recently started a thread saying that I am glad I don't need to be burdened looking for curriculum in the future since finding HOD. This was an area where I did unnecessarily burden myself. I will just keep letting dd do the phonics workbook for a while. Maybe until I feel she is ready to go back to the ERs. I was just feeling some frustration because I wasn't getting certain things done. We are actually only doing 3-4 days/week at the present. We are on unit 6, so I could start with list 1 and catch up if we do spelling on the off days. I think with my dd, it is just going to take more for the visual processing. If Carrie or Julie has any suggestions or advice (other than 'don't stray' ) I'd like to hear it.

I was also wondering if the dictation passages in Bigger are in Preparing for those using the spelling lists in Bigger. Thanks.

[farmfamily]

Have you considered the Explode the Code workbooks? I think many HOD users add these in, including Julie, if I'm not mistaken. We are just completing Book 3 with my daughter which goes over the long vowel sounds which you are mentioning. It takes her 10 min or less per day (we do 2 pages in the workbook per day - nothing else) & she does it mostly independently. My daughter has a lot of the same trouble you are mentioning about long vowels sounds. ETC has helped her, though she could still review it more.

I tried AAS a few years ago with my oldest & it seemed too much work for me + my oldest did not enjoy it at all.

[Robbi]

I recently posted about a similar question about spelling/dictation here, it might help.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12775

I think the extra curriculum isn't necessary esp if you haven't been doing it.
The workbook is probly fine, like you said, sub it for the ER box.

Bigger only schedules spelling 3 days a week but if u did it everyday u could get caught up.


Another thing I read in a post recently was to have the kiddo look at the spelling card, then close their eyes and visualize the word before writing it!!
I missed the whole close their eyes & visualize it before now!!

God Bless,

[psreit]

I am familiar with Explode the Code. However, I like the workbooks we have and Angie is doing fine in those. There are 3 workbooks in the level we have. I am going to have her do those and then hopefully that will take care of phonics for her. I am just realizing that I made a mistake in trying to do this other spelling with her. I need to go and begin list 2 with her. Robbi - Thanks for the thread. It helped. Another testimony of how HOD proves to be what is best for my dd. Another burden lifted.

[pjdobro]

The level 2 dictation passages are in Preparing as well as Bigger, so no worries there. You'll be able to finish out list 2 with Bigger this year and then move into the first dictation passages next year in Preparing.

I was thinking that when I first read your post that the way that HOD teaches spelling sounds like just what your dd needs because it focuses so much on visualizing the words. One thing I have done and continue to do with my ds who is not naturally a good speller is review the phonics rules when we have new words. So when we come across a new word in bold in a dictation passage or if there is a word in the passage that I think is more challenging for him, I take a minute or two to just review the phonics rule that goes with that word. It's been a nice way to refresh his memory along the way since I felt like I wasn't as thorough in our phonics instruction as I should have been. In the past, I had often thought of adding a spelling program. I was concerned when my ds was placing below grade level, but consistently doing the dictation in HOD has brought him up to the point that he is above grade level now when tested and even more importantly, I am seeing vast improvement in his writing. Hang in there! The HOD spelling plans do work and will continually move your dd along in her spelling skills.

[chillin'inandover]

I have used HOD spelling exclusively with my spelling challenged ds. We are required to annually test on norm referenced tests and in the 3 years that my ds has taken the test his scores have increased dramatically-33%, 66%, and 98%. What I also do when making cards is a right brain learning technique I learned. I made cards that had word on it but it was in different colors for letter patterns so l (red), ea (blue), and f (red). I also drew funny pictures of letters. I then held card above ds head so his eyes had to look up while spelling word, repeated this several times, and then had ds close his eyes while spelling. We have also clapped out patterns of spelling or done jumping jacks too. So ds visual memory, Kinesthetic memory, and auditory memory have all been tapped into. He is in dictation level 4 so I just use a dry erase board and a variety of colored markers for the bold words and punctuation. This was a technique I learned from a workshop by Diane Craft that I attended at a MACHE conference.
IMHO I would stick with HOD spelling-dictation and continue to address phonemes-phonics-emerging readers for reading. Spelling and reading are separate skills and to not spend more than 5-15 minutes on each skill. Children will shut down the longer we spend on a skill and not really learn at that point. My relationships with my children is also important and I wouldn't want to harm that with too many long frustrating lessons. My older dd (20 & 18) attended ps for 1-2 years and received extra tutoring for reading skills but only made progress when I began to hs 1:1. They now are attending college for English and teaching English. We only did school 3 days a week in the early years and they were still advanced even though they had been in Title 1 program and teased for their lack of skills while in ps. May you enjoy the journey! Reading can only be explained as a miracle and since GOD gave us his WORD and he wants us to read it he will give us the ability to do so. Tammy

[psreit]

Patty- Thanks for the encouragement. I guess my inconsistency in phonics has been my 'thorn in the flesh'. I feel like I messed up in that area. So, I keep thinking I still need to keep some of this included in dd's schoolwork for a while since she does have some struggles. I'm committing to go back to HOD spelling lists and I will let her work in the phonics workbooks through this year and then give that up next year. Reviewing rules for new words should be enough. I'd get concerned when dd would, on her own, start writing in a notebook just for fun. Her spelling is not good at all. Even words I think she should know. Hearing about your son's progress makes me hopeful.

Tammy-I think color-coding the sounds is a good idea. I am familiar with some of the techniques you mentioned, but have not really implemented them very much. Time to make those adjustments with the HOD spelling lists.

Thanks for all the encouragement. I think I finally have an appropriate goal for phonics and I'm fully on board with the HOD spelling lists. No more wavering in this area.

[Mom2Monkeys]

Double post

[Mom2Monkeys]

In AAS if you are still at a level where it is a lot of review and busy work, move faster though! we never did ohoncs with my oldest and I just started her in AAS to build those skills. We started at level 1 and she is 11! She reads wonderfully already bit can't spell well. hOD dictation is a major help to her but she needed more explicit teaching as well. We do about five lessons a day in 15-30minutes. I explain in detail how to use to remediate and at an accelerated pace in my review I wrote on it on my blog recently. You can click the globe to the right of my message and it should take you to my blog. I'm on my phone so can't link directly to the post.